63viking

Power enhancement ideas

Recommended Posts

I wish it wasn't winter here to give more detail. The car is put away miles from home so I can't get at the chip to check for differences. I will look in my old garage laptop to see if I can decipher what I am running right now. I am sure I modified the chip for 24# injectors from a Jeep. They are Bosch type 3's. The stock prom will run them, the O2 sensor will adjust through the integrator and block learn, but readings will be off. Sort of related: a second '88 replacement camshaft came in the mail today and will be going into the engine in the car now. It is interesting that these were almost impossible to find in the replacement market a decade ago but turn up from time to time now, and they are inexpensive.

 

20180117_133202.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a pic of the half-turbo being mocked up. No laughing at the props and welding:rolleyes:  The throttle body is from an early aluminum TPI manifold on an adapter plate for the stock manifold but there is no real advantage to using one aside from the IAC is in a different location to provide more room underneath. It flows similar to the stock one but the throttle body and MAF are one integrated unit. My sig picture is the same setup except I used the entire TPI manifold and the turbo runs through a front mount intercooler so the piping looks different. The intercooler was already in place but is not needed for this application and will not be used in the future as well as the TPI manifold will likely be changed back to stock also. Aside from the piping change, it does need an oil drain plumbed to the oil pan and no wastegate is used at all.

 

 

 

DSC00923.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

I really like that custom manifold vacuum block you've made. Could you please elaborate on it- PM me some closeups? Is it billet? Thank you.

Old eagle eye at work. I guess it would be considered billet since it is just a solid piece of scrap aluminum. I try to collect thick pieces like that wherever I can find them for just such a use. I think it is about 1" thick and all the custom machining is done in a drill press. Just drill all the way through the appropriate size for 1/8" npt and tap both sides for hose nipples. Drill partway up from the bottom to form an interconnecting chamber. It's bulletproof and allows you to get rid of that large 1/2" hose to the non-existent brake booster, or add a vacuum/boost gauge in the cabin. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The piping isn't near as complicated as I thought it might be. I wonder how hard it would be for a muffler shop to duplicate if you took your pipes to them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 2seater said:

I intended to start a thread to invite comment about what some have done to enhance performance. I have some experience in a limited area but there is a wealth of other modifiers out there that may have been lost in time and are way beyond my small experience. Things like engine swaps, nitrous oxide, gear ratio changes when rebuilding, manual transaxles, air intakes, new injectors and exhaust mods. Not a complete list by any means. Even things like aerodynamics. 

i always like a discussion of things that work,plus suggestions that might make it work even better.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

The piping isn't near as complicated as I thought it might be. I wonder how hard it would be for a muffler shop to duplicate if you took your pipes to them?

I will see if I have more pics. The lower pipe from the front exhaust ports is the stock manifold. It was cut off about 6" from the outlet, which is a curved section, and the end was rotated to point where I wanted it to go and then re-welded. The elbow up into the turbine is the mating end of the stock crossover pipe. Since the ball type joint is still there, it gives a little flexibility to make small adjustments before it is tightened up. The crossover pipe which reconnects to the rear manifold is custom made but it doesn't need to be especially beautiful.  Check radiator hose clearance and of course the throttle body. Heat shield as needed. The flanges for the turbine inlet and outlet are available from multiple sites. This is a Garret T3 rectangular inlet for a Ford which has a specific five bolt pattern for the outlet side. I use no wastegate so the outlet plate can be a blank one with just the exhaust hole.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, handmedownreatta said:

i always like a discussion of things that work,plus suggestions that might make it work even better.

 

I agree completely and am hoping to encourage everyone to share. I have made my share of mistakes along the way. For example, I rebuilt a junkyard engine as a spare and raised the compression a little and liked it. Then I got the idea to turbocharge it. What I had done to raise the compression was just the wrong thing to do to add boost and actually contributed to making it more knock sensitive . It's a journey and more company is always welcome.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

WTB: 1 custom vacuum block...

I think I have one made from a block of black nylatron too. I'll look around.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, 2seater said:

I will see if I have more pics. The lower pipe from the front exhaust ports is the stock manifold. It was cut off about 6" from the outlet, which is a curved section, and the end was rotated to point where I wanted it to go and then re-welded. The elbow up into the turbine is the mating end of the stock crossover pipe. Since the ball type joint is still there, it gives a little flexibility to make small adjustments before it is tightened up. The crossover pipe which reconnects to the rear manifold is custom made but it doesn't need to be especially beautiful.  Check radiator hose clearance and of course the throttle body. Heat shield as needed. The flanges for the turbine inlet and outlet are available from multiple sites. This is a Garret T3 rectangular inlet for a Ford which has a specific five bolt pattern for the outlet side. I use no wastegate so the outlet plate can be a blank one with just the exhaust hole.

 

There was a time when I would have jumped right on this but that was in another lifetime. :)  I had a house with a two car attached garage and a two car unattached garage where I did this kind of stuff. I worked in a large machine shop where I could use any of the machines I wanted to do what we called "Government jobs" in our free time which were actually our own projects. Now I only have an attached garage that stays full of cars and I no longer have access to a machine shop since I retired. All I can do now is dream and talk about it. That's one reason I like treads like this. You should be proud of what you have accomplished by designing and building your own turbocharged 3800 engine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

 

There was a time when I would have jumped right on this but that was in another lifetime. :)  I had a house with a two car attached garage and a two car unattached garage where I did this kind of stuff. I worked in a large machine shop where I could use any of the machines I wanted to do what we called "Government jobs" in our free time which were actually our own projects. Now I only have an attached garage that stays full of cars and I no longer have access to a machine shop since I retired. All I can do now is dream and talk about it. That's one reason I like treads like this. You should be proud of what you have accomplished by designing and building your own turbocharged 3800 engine.

I know what you mean about lack of access to materials and fabrication. I used to be surrounded by all kinds of useful things and my stock is slowly disappearing. Sure I enjoy what I do but it is as much therapy as anything. Fiddling with an obsolete engine,  sort of an orphan among family members, is primarily looking for that sweet spot where it just feels stronger, but not really artificial. Everything is done with simple saws, files, drill press and a small mig welder in my garage. This is that front manifold, a better silicone elbow stuck on an old MAF housing. There is a 1/2" plate on the throttle body end of the MAF that was used to test a remote mount for the MAF, like locating it at the inlet to the turbo, more like the GN uses. Results are better blowing air into it.

 

20180117_193850.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

 

who?

Graphite impregnated nylon. It was used as wear plates and guides for aerial ladders. Cuts, drills and taps really well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this thanks to 89RDG's post for where/when this system started. Looking further it is obvious it was well thought out with not only a conventional wastegate but also a second one operated by the knock sensor. That lets the turbine to be sized smaller so it is always spinning fairly hard to provide a torque increase throughout, but with a safety net to prevent destruction. It only provided a maximum of 6-7psi and the most I have seen with the T3 from a turbo T'Bird is 4 psi, and that's at higher rpm.

 

1995

Saab announces the world's first asymmetrically-turbocharged engine. The turbo is fitted only to the front cylinder bank of a transversely-installed 3.0-liter V6, but delivers its charge to both. The light-pressure turbocharger is extremely small and integrated in the exhaust manifold for efficient packaging. It delivers 30 per cent more torque, which allows high gearing for reduced fuel consumption together with impressive pulling power.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at this photo again. How hot does the intake pipe get? I was just wondering if there is a lot of heat transfer between the exhaust side of the turbo and the intake air side. Do you have a photo of the pipes with heat shields in place?

 

 

DSC00923.thumb.JPG.58e8f97f110f8f0b03d0f

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a reason you can't mount the turbo in the crossover pipe and continue the down pipe from there?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

Looking at this photo again. How hot does the intake pipe get? I was just wondering if there is a lot of heat transfer between the exhaust side of the turbo and the intake air side. Do you have a photo of the pipes with heat shields in place?

 

 

DSC00923.thumb.JPG.58e8f97f110f8f0b03d0f

There is no doubt there is some heat transfer, but not as much as you would think when a couple hundred cfm are flowing, but for cruising, yes it is a concern. I mount my intake air temperature sensor directly into the throttle body so the ECM sees actual air temp. to accurately control the timing. In this particular setup, I never completed the direct hot air feed. I already had a front mounted intercooler installed  so I opted to use that for the air inlet. The compressor outlet is rotated to point straight down where it runs down and forward to the intercooler and then back up where the charcoal canister would be and then to the throttle. I discovered the boost was so tame, that the intercooler is not needed and a future iteration will be routed as shown above. Bear in mind, I generally have my hot parts ceramic coated so radiation is less but I do make tin heat shields where appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 63viking said:

Is there a reason you can't mount the turbo in the crossover pipe and continue the down pipe from there?

No, there is no reason it can't as long as the turbo can be located and oriented so everything else will work. Even a small assembly like this takes up more room than you would think and there are other things that get in the way, like the transaxle TV cable which sticks straight up. I have considered relocating the battery to the trunk, locating the turbo in its place and feed it from half or all of the engine. In that location, it looks like a nice cold air inlet could be made similar to what's on the driver's side and run the compressor outlet either across the front of the engine to the throttle or run out through the front to an intercooler and they back out through the existing hole where the stock inlet is now and on to the throttle. I'm sure I haven't exhausted all possibilities and while not necessary for the half turbo, I relocated the vacuum bomb and the cruise control servo to the crossbar for the strut towers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

(that's why Builders "in the know" are mounting stuff in the back, away from the hot engine)

In a perfect world, the optimum place would be directly to the existing rear manifold outlet if you can find the real estate, get cool air to the compressor inlet and from the outlet back to the throttle. The darn sidewinder engine makes a lot of that difficult unless designed in from the start. The real rear mount systems have different but similar issues to work around. A good place for a rear mount; I would ditch the stock fuel tank so the turbo could be tucked up a bit to between the rear hatches which would shorten both the exhaust and pipe to the throttle. Of course it would need a tank under the rear, sort of trade the locations as normally done. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a belt driven centrifugal supercharger powered from a jackshaft across the top front of the engine? They have real potential and no exhaust work at all. 

Edited by 2seater (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears you need to be more of a plumber than a machinist to install a turbo. Thanks for answering all the questions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 2seater said:

How about a belt driven centrifugal supercharger powered from a jackshaft across the top front of the engine? 

 

Sorta like a Paxton?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or like the later 3800 Supercharged V6 ..........save your grey matter and use what GM engineered.

I toured the Hennessy performance shop down in Kyle TX last fall and they were taking that high performance Dodge and modifying it.........mostly with software, they changed the blower pulley for more boost, new exhaust and the rest was

modifications to the ECM chip..........how much could you get out of the Reatta by modifying the timing, injectors and transmission shift points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now