Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Steering wheel play is not 2 inches or 6 inches, but one whole revolution of the wheel. Not good. Too cold to work on the car so I popped the steering column out to bring into my crib . Figured out the problem, and it's not an easy fix: The hardened endpiece broke off the half-nut! The gears are fine and everything looks great, I wonder how I can re-attach the little hardened piece onto the half nut. Edited January 24, 2018 by Morgan Wright spelling in title (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1. How was it attached before? 2. Clean and degrease that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 screws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Where are the screw heads? There had to be some mechanism for tightening them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Look at the pics. The screws broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Simple, drill out the broken screws and reinstall with new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Actually they are dowels. No threads, no heads. Both dowels sheared. I'll just drill them out and whack in some new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Are they hardened dowels ?? If so they will be fun to remove if they are blind. EDM!! Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 If 1923 is the same I have an extra steering box. John 1922-6-55 Sport touring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 I have an extra car with a steering column, but I'd rather fix this one. If the dowels are hardened I wonder how much damage I can do with a carbide bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 If you can, run a file across part of the pin. If it slides across the surface without cutting, You will need to use grind stones or find a machine shop with EDM. You can also test with a carbide scribe, if it won't mark the surface carbide cutters won't do the job. Bob Engle 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H.Boland Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I have vague recollections of going for a first run of a restored 1918 McLaughlin-Buick.The owner turned to go left out of the driveway but the car went right ! We went around the block and had to turn the steering wheel the opposite direction for turns. That was 50 years ago and I can't verify it,but be careful putting it back together ! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Morgan Wright said: Look at the pics. The screws broke. That's obvious. The point is that screws have heads. If these were screws you should be able to locate those heads and gain an avenue for extraction. If they're pins, you may have the opportunity for a similar approach. Dowel pins are typically pressed in with an interference fit. The raw casting doesn't have that kind of precision, which means that there would be tooling access to the holes. Or they used cheap, soft pins that were malleable enough to fit rough holes. If they are pins and there are holes through the case, put a punch in the holes and knock them out. Or not. The pictures aren't detailed and comprehensive enough to make a thorough assessment. Put some JB Weld on it and clamp it together overnight. Edited January 17, 2018 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Ha ha JB Weld. Both ends of the dowels are blind, can't punch 'em. Here's the disassembly in case anybody has to go through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) If these are the two mating parts, drill them, ream them, press in new pins. You might even get lucky and find out they're a slip fit and will spin out with a plain extractor and you need to do nothing more than replace the pins. Edited January 17, 2018 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Today they make spring pins, made of manganese steel, that contract when you tap them in, and extremely strong. I don't know when they were invented or what steel they used back in 1917. I probably should pop the other hardened end off and put new spring pins in that one too. Edited January 18, 2018 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryVan Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 PLEASE, do not use spring pins. They are notorious for breaking. If those are typical hardened dowel pins, they will have relatively soft centers that may allow you to drill them out. (And maybe even allow you to tap them for a slide hammer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raydurr Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I haven't encountered much from the era of this cars production that was very hard. Id be surprised if the pin is harder than a Grade 5 bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 The thing that would help the most here would be if Mr. Wright would simply wash up all of the parts in the steering box so that everyone could see what is going on and what it is that he is talking about. Without that being done, it is very hard to grasp what it is that he is talking about. I have several of these steering boxes and have seen these things all apart, so, I understand them. Not everybody on here has that advantage. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I agree that the first step to any repair is a thorough cleaning. The grease just attracts grit and will need to be removed anyway before reassembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 8 hours ago, JerryVan said: PLEASE, do not use spring pins. They are notorious for breaking. If those are typical hardened dowel pins, they will have relatively soft centers that may allow you to drill them out. (And maybe even allow you to tap them for a slide hammer) I'll do a shear test on the pins I use before deciding which ones to use. Manganese spring steel is virtually impossible to break. They make lawnmower blades with that stuff, my 1980 mower deck on my Satoh still has the original blades on them and I've hit 1000000000 rock with them. I've sharpened the blades 20 times. They dull, but are about as unbreakable as steel can be. The pins I use will be that kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 2 hours ago, JFranklin said: I agree that the first step to any repair is a thorough cleaning. The grease just attracts grit and will need to be removed anyway before reassembly. Concur. I'm kind of anal that way: I generally clean the outside before I even open it up. Then I clean up the inside and give the whole thing a once-over before I start putting it back together. It's just a lot easier working on clean parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said: I wonder what special trick you guys use to clean the grease out of a gear housing before disassembling it. Telekinesis. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) On 1/18/2018 at 12:34 AM, KongaMan said: Concur. I'm kind of anal that way: I generally clean the outside before I even open it up. Then I clean up the inside and give the whole thing a once-over before I start putting it back together. It's just a lot easier working on clean parts. The sequence of photos I attached is the disassembly. It would not be all clean inside during disassembly. Edited July 25, 2021 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said: The thing that would help the most here would be if Mr. Wright would simply wash up all of the parts in the steering box so that everyone could see what is going on and what it is that he is talking about. Without that being done, it is very hard to grasp what it is that he is talking about. I have several of these steering boxes and have seen these things all apart, so, I understand them. Not everybody on here has that advantage. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas I always take photos during different steps of taking things apart so I have evidence of how they looked when they were together. This is an important trick to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said: No. The first step to any repair is diagnosing the problem. The second step is removal of the part. The third step is disassembling the part. The 4th step is cleaning. I wonder what special trick you used to diagnose the broken endpiece before removing and disassembling the gear box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) On 1/18/2018 at 2:23 AM, KongaMan said: I wonder what special trick you used to diagnose the broken endpiece before removing and disassembling the gear box. It's the first thing I saw when I opened it. Edited January 21, 2018 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 The end piece is hardened steel, harder than a file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 The dowels are not hardened. I will drill out the broken dowel on the hardened endpiece using a drill bit smaller than the dowel, and then move the bit around the hole to get it all out. From that I can get an accurate size of the new spring dowel. Using a drill bit that exact size, I'll drill the dowel out on the half nut. This will be an easy job, tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If that's supposed to be (or if you intend it to be) an interference fit, you'll want to drill those holes undersize and ream them. Interference fit or not, rather than moving the bit around in an attempt to enlarge the hole (a job for which the tool is not really designed), why not use a larger bit of the proper size and get a round hole instead of a Rorschach test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 The undersize drill will do nothing to the hardened steel but it will dig out the dowel in pieces until it all comes out leaving a perfectly round hole. I'm not going to ream anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) You are on the right track, we were just dismayed somewhat that you showed us the parts before the cleanup. It was difficult to give good responses. Edited January 18, 2018 by JFranklin (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) The 4 pieces of dowel are 0.148 inch diameter as you can see. I used a 9/64 (0.141) drill bit to get them out. The length of the dowels can be measured also. The torsion spring pins from the hardware store failed the shear test. I didn't want that kind anyway. Now to find manganese steel spring pins. Edited January 18, 2018 by Morgan Wright sp. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Holes 0.151 inch . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 .003 is a huge gap. If those measurements are accurate, the pins should have dropped out of the holes, and the other endpiece should have fallen off after the center pawl was removed. If the pieces slide on the pins, that could have contributed to the failure with the shear and bending forces encountered on the pins. It might also pay to check the parts for wear. They wouldn't use a hardened cap if they didn't anticipate wear of some sort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 The pins were not loose. The previous owner used JB Weld on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Smart man, he was. Something had to hold them in place; a .003" gap sure wasn't going to do it. It does look like they came out fairly whole, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 As long as we're popping off about this... Is the indicated groove in the pad a wear mark? If it is, it might be beneficial to rotate the pad 180° at reassembly (or make new pads if that's not feasible). You'd think there's a good chance that wear like that would introduce slop into the system; putting the contact point on a fresh surface might tighten things up a bit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Be careful when putting the half nuts back into the housing. If you do it wrong, when you turn right the car will go left and vice versa. A friend with a '19 had that fun experience. JB weld in a car that has been in storage for 80 years??? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: JB weld in a car that has been in storage for 80 years??? I was thinking the same thing Don. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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