DEF Tow Vehicles and a real dumb question

[John348]

This topic really affects all of us who use newer DEF generation tow vehicles, which I am sure has to be 15-20% of us on the forum. so I decided to post it here in general discussion 

 

I have 2013 Sierra that I use as a tow vehicle, has not been used since Hershey. Getting it ready to go to Florida after the February AACA Meeting and I wanted to take it for a ride. With near zero temps coming in the Northeast I topped of the fuel, the DEF and added some some diesel fuel anti-gel additive and then wanted to give it a ride before the incoming blizzard. Took 4 gallons of DEF and it holds 5. The last run for the truck was the return from Hershey. After I added the fuel and additive  I drove about 3 miles and I get a code scrolling across the dash board "SERVICE DIESEL EXHAUST SYSTEM NOW ...... SEE OWNERS MANUAL........ 98 MILES TO 65 MPH MAX

 

The truck is used only for towing, so it gets run maybe once every 3 or 4 months on average.    So as i added the DEF the other night I could not help to notice on the box specific storage instructions as to not store fluid in temperatures under 12 degrees and above 85 degrees. So what controls the tank temperature under the truck? What prevents it from getting too cold or to hot? I have only 70,000 miles on the truck ordered it new and had only 2.5 miles on it when I took delivery.  I have maintained this vehicle specific to the owners manual, nothing is neglected other than not getting driven! It is not a question of not using it more of an issue of no where to park it when I am on Long Island. 

 

Another issue I have is that on Long Island most dealers do not have qualified GM diesel mechanics, the borrow them from other dealers, so the only dealer I found is about 45 miles from my home, but at least they have some diesel guys. Unrelated but the Cadillac GMC Dealer near my home 5-6 miles away can't seem to fix anything. My CTS is has been there now for 3 weeks with a keyless entry problem. The Service Manager, very nice young man around 32 years old tells me "oh the electronics on these cars...blah blah blah" I stopped him at that point and told him " stop with that I have been hearing that crap before you were born, and everyone in your shop under 35 so they should all be on top of this, it is not something new like it was in the early 80's" I had another problem with my Sierra with the DEF last year and I asked him if he had a diesel tech in the shop and he  could not say no but was polite enough to say and wink at the same time "he is all backed up and it is going to take awhile before he can look it, you might want to call  So and so GMC they have a few guys in their shop who can help you much quicker then we can'" 

 

I know I can not be the only guy with a tow vehicle that uses DEF that sits a long period of time in adverse weather. From what I have read this is a rather common problem so.......

How come there is no additive?  

If there is an expiration of the fluid according to the owners manual how come there is no date anywhere on either the GM of the off make stuff?

 

I am pretty sure that the problem is temperature related pointing to the heaters in the system from what I have read and researched. One thing I have noticed that should be pointed out the fluid itself leave a chalky residue when it dries, which can't be good, the injector could be clogged I just don't know

 

On my way now to drop it off to the dealer......... 

 

There is a great You tube video of a guy fixing one but that is not happening.... 

 

Any of you guys had problems with your tow vehicles and DEF?

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by John348 (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

Might this be a maintenance reminder light that can be manually reset by some specific procedure of pressing buttons on the dash?  Similar to the warning lights and messages that remind you to change your oil.  Just an idea in case it's hopefully something simple.

[Steve9]

I drive semi trucks for a local food distributor and our mechanic says these DEF systems have heaters built in to keep the fluid from freezing. If the heaters fail, they throw a code . They have replaced a few of them.

[John348]

23 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Might this be a maintenance reminder light that can be manually reset by some specific procedure of pressing buttons on the dash?  Similar to the warning lights and messages that remind you to change your oil.  Just an idea in case it's hopefully something simple.

 

I wish, I looked into it it is tied into the ECM  

[lump]

I found a thread on a GM truck forum about excessive DEF consumption, which might shed some light on your issue, hopefully. I know nothing about diesels; I'm just trying to offer some help. Here is a link: GM truck forum with discussion on excessive DEF consumption

[Frantz]

I used to sell diesels when I did commercial trucks with Ford. The motors are really impressive (across the board), but they are designed for a lifespan, not to the point of wearing out. Meaning, someone like you or me, who doesn't need a truck on a daily basis, really has more trouble getting value back out. IMO the only way to do it is to deprecate them under a business and trade em in when they get out of warranty. The shops that run a half million miles in a few years seem to do just fine. But the government and the manufacturers don't really care if trucks don't last forever. Government likes new fleets, manufacturers don't make as much money on old ones. So no one has a motive to make a truck that goes 5k a year and last 40 years. With that in mind, I know where the engineering dollars are going.

Now taking off my tin foil hat... we had huge inventories of trucks that sat all winter. Once I started commercial sales I was pretty active in keeping them clean, powered, and shoveled out (Pennsylvania), but still off site trucks would sit, run out of power, and start up just fine without any codes getting thrown with a quick jump. My guess is one of your sensors has moisture and it's frozen... or something along those lines. I don't think the cold temps on the DEF alone caused the problems.

And if I get a new farm truck it'll be a gas. I'd rather pay the higher fuel cost and getting fuel is easier. My only diesel truck is a 2000 F550 dump truck, and my tractors are pre emission too. Not sure what I'll do as I'm forced to care more.

[Dandy Dave]

I had to look DEF up. Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Most professional trucker's are pretty pissed about having to have that crap added to everything else that they have to worry about on a big highway truck. Just a bunch of hog wash that you now have to put up with. Think I'll just put a tow hitch on the 1925 White I just bought. 

[Robert Street]

John I have no worries/issue with my 2017 Duramax with  33,000 miles.  The new motor is unreal with power and economy compared to previous series diesels.  Now to specifics.  Yes as someone mentioned the self life of DEF is limited and I only buy mine from a local jobber as his inventory is fresh.  The stuff won't freeze in that 7 gallon tank due to the warmer. But high temperatures seem to be the problem with DEF storage.

The only time I get those codes is out here in Boulder Colorado at my daughter's as you can't drive the vehicle fast enough or far enough to keep the particulate filter cleaned and that is the code you are receiving I am certain.  Why do you use an additive? I didn't even use additives in my 2011 F350.  A little known fact is that additives will cause more grams of particulate matter and could be the main cause of your codes as it can't get rid of the particulates.  Mine starts very quickly out here in those cold days so I never need any "stuff".

Yes DEF dries with a white particle residue but it is very water soluble like salt is.  The OTR trucks are having issues with the newer engines but mostly related to the EGR system on the new diesels.

Robert

Happy towing!

[Bhigdog]

DEF?  We don't need no stinking DEF. I adore my 2013 Dodge 2500 diesel. We don't need no stinking DEF!................Bob

[John348]

26 minutes ago, Robert Street said:

John I have no worries/issue with my 2017 Duramax with  33,000 miles.  The new motor is unreal with power and economy compared to previous series diesels.  Now to specifics.  Yes as someone mentioned the self life of DEF is limited and I only buy mine from a local jobber as his inventory is fresh.  The stuff won't freeze in that 7 gallon tank due to the warmer. But high temperatures seem to be the problem with DEF storage.

The only time I get those codes is out here in Boulder Colorado at my daughter's as you can't drive the vehicle fast enough or far enough to keep the particulate filter cleaned and that is the code you are receiving I am certain.  Why do you use an additive? I didn't even use additives in my 2011 F350.  A little known fact is that additives will cause more grams of particulate matter and could be the main cause of your codes as it can't get rid of the particulates.  Mine starts very quickly out here in those cold days so I never need any "stuff".

Yes DEF dries with a white particle residue but it is very water soluble like salt is.  The OTR trucks are having issues with the newer engines but mostly related to the EGR system on the new diesels.

Robert

Happy towing!

 

Hey Robert,

My truck sits for awhile and in this extreme  cold (single digits for 72 hours) the fuel can gel so I always toss a little anti-gel in the tank. As far as the warmers or heaters I am pretty sure are only activated through the glow plug circuit via the ECM and are not controlled by any thermostatic switch based on ambient temperature, so if the engine is not running nothing is getting heated. There are three heater circuits , and they only operate for 2 or 3 seconds  every few seconds hardly long enough to warm up seven gallons.

Again you have achieved almost half the mileage the mileage my truck had in 5 years  in 1 year.  So the fluid in my truck can sit months at time so what really is the expiration  time on the fluid? Is it speed up by extreme temperatures?  There is no expiration date on the box so how long has been since it was manufactured? 

I had a code come up "poor quality DEF 99 miles to regeneration mode" two years ago.  The resolve was a NOx sensor and a software upgrade. But again it was sitting for awhile without driving. As you said high temps are  problem for DEF storage what is preventing  exposing high temperatures from a tank of DEF under the truck . Temperatures below 12 degrees seem to be a problem as well, according to the box. The only problem(s) I had with this truck has been related to the DEF other than that power and economy are fine.

 

2 hours ago, Frantz said:

I used to sell diesels when I did commercial trucks with Ford. The motors are really impressive (across the board), but they are designed for a lifespan, not to the point of wearing out. Meaning, someone like you or me, who doesn't need a truck on a daily basis, really has more trouble getting value back out. IMO the only way to do it is to deprecate them under a business and trade em in when they get out of warranty. The shops that run a half million miles in a few years seem to do just fine. But the government and the manufacturers don't really care if trucks don't last forever. Government likes new fleets, manufacturers don't make as much money on old ones. So no one has a motive to make a truck that goes 5k a year and last 40 years. With that in mind, I know where the engineering dollars are going.

 

Hey Doug,

I have a strong suspicion that my lack of use is contributing to the problem.  Like you pointed out a large majority of diesel owners drive them racking up the miles. Robert is a perfect example so I don't think my type of use is factored into engineering.  If the DEF goes stale sitting on the shelf in a box, what is stopping it from going bad sitting in a tank under my truck?  I had a gas 2500 before this truck and I traded it in after a year, a 28 gallon tank at 7 miles to the gallon towing made for way too many stops and the fuel was double at the end of the trip and the added time was real bad from the additional stops. 

 

We will see I dropped it of this afternoon.

[Robert Street]

John we had the single digits out here last week and I brought a jug of DEF just in case as it only takes a tick over 2 gallons to get my 2017 out here without the trailer. I looked in the back on a 6 degree morning and it wasn’t frozen!!  I would be more concerned I think with the fuel gelled and the particulate trap but I ain’t gonna add fuel additives unless it quits. Your dealer can clean the trap and reset the code so you will be good until southbound on I-95. Next time try to drive it. Oh. Important question is the truck in regen!

robert

[real61ss]

2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

DEF?  We don't need no stinking DEF. I adore my 2013 Dodge 2500 diesel. We don't need no stinking DEF!................Bob

Do the Cummins not use the DEF?

[John348]

47 minutes ago, Robert Street said:

John we had the single digits out here last week and I brought a jug of DEF just in case as it only takes a tick over 2 gallons to get my 2017 out here without the trailer. I looked in the back on a 6 degree morning and it wasn’t frozen!!  I would be more concerned I think with the fuel gelled and the particulate trap but I ain’t gonna add fuel additives unless it quits. Your dealer can clean the trap and reset the code so you will be good until southbound on I-95. Next time try to drive it. Oh. Important question is the truck in regen!

robert

 

No,  there was mention of regen this time, just I was 53 miles from restricted speed of 65 mph. Driving it is not the issue here on Long Island, finding a place to park it is. I am just wondering if it is due to the lack of use... 

[Curti]

My 2014 Ram  3500 Cummins  850 ft/lbs torque uses DEF.  I typically do not drive my truck in the winter unless I have to. ( I hate salt ) Yesterday I had to. It has been double digits  below zero for a couple of weeks now.  The truck has  basically been sitting in dead storage since mid October.  I pressed the button all of the heaters came on, about twenty seconds later (it seemed like a long time)  It fired right up NO problem.  My only problem is, I can drive to and from the east coast and the DEF gauge never comes off full. When it does it goes down fast.  I think the DEF tank is 3 gallons.  

 

 

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, real61ss said:

Do the Cummins not use the DEF?

 I think 2013 may have been the last DEF free year. At least mine, thankfully, is.......................Bob

[real61ss]

My 2011 Ford F350 uses it but my 2008 F450 does not use it. The stuff is a pain in the rear

[John348]

Curti.

I love my truck, absolutely love it!.............. but and a big BUT this repeating problems with the DEF has go me scarred,  Do you leave your truck in a controlled environment when you store it?

 

The early DEF GM's do not have a gauge, I don't know if they have one now. I have been getting about 1000 miles per gallon, and they got that figured out with a 5 gallon tank, time for an oil change and an additional charge. There is no dipstick, it is just a very bad and I feel rushed design. Several times when I brought it in for service at the dealer I bought it from I brought it in for an oil change and instructed them to top off the DEF telling the service manager that I needed about 4 gallons, based on my mileage. About a 1000 miles later I get the warning on the dash telling me I have 1000 miles left of DEF. I took it back to the dealer and he said the mechanic scrolls through the prompts on the driver information system, and it said that the fluid level was fine, and that the 5 gallons that they charged me was a mistake, refunded me the cost of the oil change. Second time they did it again, and that was the last time I ever went back.

I came upon this on You-Tube, it was very interesting, I learned a lot. It is in 2 parts but well worth it if your frozen like me.  Not that I myself am going to fix it, but I do like to know what is going on. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g6h2IEd9so

Edited January 6, 2018 by John348 (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

We have a 2011 Silverado Duramax that uses DEF. it was a pain until I went ballistic at the dealer the third time in about 6 weeks we took it in. They told me GM had problems with the tanks and replaced ours. Since then (knock on wood) it has been ok. We haul horses all over the Midwest to the east coast. The truck sits for weeks at a time then heavy use. I don’t know why the new tank is ok or the difference between the old and new but it is working now.  Ours was still under the extended warranty when I went ballistic, I suggest you try that. Good luck

Dave S 

[padgett]

In 2012 I had a diesel RV and figured my next tow car would be also. Wasn't available so I bought a flex fuel & sold the RV. Now figure if gas goes away I can just build a still.

 

ps diesel in Florida has cost more than regular for most of this century.

[John348]

2 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

We have a 2011 Silverado Duramax that uses DEF. it was a pain until I went ballistic at the dealer the third time in about 6 weeks we took it in. They told me GM had problems with the tanks and replaced ours. Since then (knock on wood) it has been ok. We haul horses all over the Midwest to the east coast. The truck sits for weeks at a time then heavy use. I don’t know why the new tank is ok or the difference between the old and new but it is working now.  Ours was still under the extended warranty when I went ballistic, I suggest you try that. Good luck

Dave S 

 

Hey Dave, 

What was the problem with the tank? How long ago was that?

[Curti]

Curti.

I love my truck, absolutely love it!.............. but and a big BUT this repeating problems with the DEF has go me scarred,  Do you leave your truck in a controlled environment when you store it?

 

I find the trucks are like children you love them no matter what.   But my serenity level is compromised if I don't have to spank the kid on a semi regular basis.  I watched part of the video but is pretty Chevy oriented.  

My truck is stored in an unheated pole building with a concrete floor with the antique cars.  There is a DEF gauge on the dash and a flashing warning light if it starts to get low.    Personally I don't find pouring in DEF every few thousand miles any kind of a big deal.   

[one-shot]

I have a RAM 1500 Diesel (2015) and have "had" the regen and DEF issues. (40000 miles) Gets below 32 and the cold weather shroud comes out of hiding.  Makes all the difference in the world. Never last one leaving the light and run the DEF down to low before adding one box of the freshest I can find. Plug both in every night below 32. Do the same to the 2005 jeep liberty diesel (Minus DEF) and added a higher thermostat.

Sits outside in the elements 365, put a tarp over the front end when the snow blows. The problems extend even to the wiper fluid and the associated sensors. I do 20% towing. I take dated photos of air filter changes, DEF additions and windshield wiper fluid additions. I purchased upfront the max factory warranty and oil/filter changes. There are way too many cooks in the kitchen, and they dont talk.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by one-shot (see edit history)

[Robert Street]

John I am not near my books or one of the diesel guys at my friend’s GMC dealership. I am sort of convinced your DIC message is a particulate filter item not DEF tank. I do get ominous messages out here in boulder and my truck seems to be always in “regen” because I can’t drive it fast enough or long enough to complete a cycle. 

Please let me know how they clean the filter. It’s too bad you can’t make a 40 mile expressway trip and clean it yourself. The newer diesels don’t get as far with a gallon of DEF nor do they get as far before a regen cycle due to the newer 2017 EPA regs 

without trailer I could get here and back easily on the tank with the F350(5 gallons). I can do it with a tank on my 2017 that is 7 gallons as it injects more DEF due to EPA

i was under impression all diesels from 2011 newer require DEF. this year first response vehicles such as ambulances and fire trucks are exempt but must be certified by dealer as to use

Robert

[auburnseeker]

2 hours ago, Robert Street said:

this year first response vehicles such as ambulances and fire trucks are exempt but must be certified by dealer as to use

Robert

 So wait a minute.  This phrase right here tells me the technology has problems that matter and will affect someone's life.  Seems legislation moved faster than technology. 

 

I have an '06 F250 Powerstroke with all the bugs fixed.  There is no mistake it's a diesel and has quite a bit of naught with the tuner.   Both of which I like.  If I wanted a Cadillac,  I would have bought a Cadillac,  I wanted a real truck. 4 wheel drive, 8 foot bed , Nothing power, vinyl interior and a 6 speed manual which required the tuner to make it actually perform. Now I only hope the North country winters don't eat it alive.  It's heavily oiled and greased underneath as well as gets limited winter use. 

[SC38dls]

John348. They wouldn’t tell us whAt was wrong but said they had a problem with them that would turn the sensor on saying low DEF and it would reduce to a low speed in xx miles. We would refill it and in a hundred miles or less it would happen again. They had the truck three times for a few days each time and it wouldn’t get fixed. I blew my top saying you don’t spend that kind of money on a vehicle for that to happen. They finally replaced the thank and sensors. This was in 2014 the truck had about 38,000 miles on it and I had the extended mileage warranty they sold. I am a nut on oil and filter changes and also the required dealer maintenance so they couldn’t say it was any of that. The old saying “the squeaky wheel gets the grease “

was proven true. 

Dave S 

[Joe in Canada]

A good friend of mine has a diesel shop where they do everything from oil change to a complete rebuild of the engine all in house. They are always getting engines in that have been chipped for more power and then have serious problems. Usually needing a complete rebuild at great expense. He will not give warrantee if you chip the engine saying most times they have it done the engine can not handle it if you work it hard. Do not chip your diesel engine if you want it to last.

[John348]

6 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

A good friend of mine has a diesel shop where they do everything from oil change to a complete rebuild of the engine all in house. They are always getting engines in that have been chipped for more power and then have serious problems. Usually needing a complete rebuild at great expense. He will not give warrantee if you chip the engine saying most times they have it done the engine can not handle it if you work it hard. Do not chip your diesel engine if you want it to last.

 

 I can see that. 

[Robert Street]

21 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

 So wait a minute.  This phrase right here tells me the technology has problems that matter and will affect someone's life.  Seems legislation moved faster than technology. 

 

I have an '06 F250 Powerstroke with all the bugs fixed.  There is no mistake it's a diesel and has quite a bit of naught with the tuner.   Both of which I like.  If I wanted a Cadillac,  I would have bought a Cadillac,  I wanted a real truck. 4 wheel drive, 8 foot bed , Nothing power, vinyl interior and a 6 speed manual which required the tuner to make it actually perform. Now I only hope the North country winters don't eat it alive.  It's heavily oiled and greased underneath as well as gets limited winter use. 

It was my understanding that the type of use of those vehicles were what was causing the issues as they usually spend much time idling which builds up particulates in the trap and limited regen wasn’t burning them off. I would rather see people like John not drive them rather then just idle around building up more particulates with limited regen like what happens to me when out here in boulder. The def sensor item you referenced could have been caused by the def product itself. The def injection treats a separate emission issue 

robert

oops sorry the def sensor was a separate post

Edited January 7, 2018 by Robert Street (see edit history)

[John348]

6 minutes ago, Robert Street said:

It was my understanding that the type of use of those vehicles were what was causing the issues as they usually spend much time idling which builds up particulates in the trap and limited regen wasn’t burning them off. I would rather see people like John not drive them rather then just idle around building up more particulates with limited regen like what happens to me when out here in boulder. The def sensor item you referenced could have been caused by the def product itself. The def injection treats a separate emission issue 

robert

oops sorry the def sensor was a separate post

 

Good Morning Robert,

 

This is where I am a little confused and am trying to learn as much as I can about the system. I was under the assumption that the DEF is a factor at highway speeds, and at idle not so much... I don't know?  I am really starting to think that my lack of use is contributing to the DEF "spoiling" just might have to change my habits, and add a fresh 2 gallons every 2.000 miles pending on use. One would think that there would be a stabilizer for the DEF similar to gasoline and diesel fuel to extend the life of the DEF

 

When my truck was a about two years old I had a contractor come over in to my home in Florida with the same truck, but brand new. He removed and changed a lot of the items on the truck, one of which was the exhaust. I questioned it and how he was able to remove the DEF system, and get past emission testing. That's when I found out that there is no state inspections or emission testing of vehicles in the state of Florida.  (I REALLY WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THIS THREAD TO MORPH INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT FLORIDA AND STATE INSPECTIONS)

    

I did register my truck in Florida just to simplify my life, to avoid dealing with my NYS inspection, which ran out while I was at my home in Florida, and then I was greeted by an police officer at the as I entered New York at the toll plaza with an expired inspection summons. If I do decide to keep this truck I might look into removing the system considering I do not need it for registration/state inspection purposes. That would be down the road if no other alternative can be found. Anyone who has bought one of these diesel tow vehicles new realizes that they are just too expensive and complicated to toss a factory warranty out the window.

 

Keep the thoughts flowing this has been one of the more cerebral threads on the site .

[Stude Light]

Don't get the DEF and Diesel Particulate Filter  (DPF) systems mixed up. They are two independent emissions systems.

 

The DPF has been around since 2007 and has a large filter in the exhaust system that collects all the particulate matter then has to re-generate that filter by injecting diesel fuel directly into the filter where it is ignited and burns at extremely high temperatures. This burns off the partuliculate matter and the filter is "clean" again to continue doing it's job. This system is what got rid of the smoky and smelly exhaust.

 

The DEF system was mandated in 2011 and constantly injects the fluid into the exhaust gases where the urea reacts with the exhaust gases on a catalyst and forms ammonia which converts the NOx emissions into nitrogen and water. 

 

Each system works independently of the other.

Scott

 

 

 

[Robert Street]

Great explanation Scott of the two systems!

Robert

[Curti]

Wouldn't disabling the DEF system void the existing factory warranty? 

[Robert Street]

John I don’t recommend removing the particulate system nor the DEF system as true no inspection down there but I would hate to see you caught up in a situation like my neighbor was with her older F250 and a modified exhaust system. When it came time for her to sell her 7.3 with 6 speed manual(ugh) it could not be retitled she lost enough due to that 6 speed but I think the new exhaust cost more than the sale.

just drive your truck and enjoy. I have 34,000 on mine that was new in January last year and no def sensor issues but have had DIC warnings that the regen wasn’t complete.  I was able to make a trip down to Denver and the regen finally did it’s job

robert

[39BuickEight]

The DPF is what is activated usually at highway speeds and not at idle to prevent property or human damage to anything near the tailpipe when it happens.  I know the tailpipes are often perforated to dissipate the heat, but it is still incredibly hot.

[Robert Street]

Yes that system is designed to work at highway not stop and go. I don’t have any info with me but the temps needed to burn the particulate stuff is unreal

robert

[John348]

30 minutes ago, Curti said:

Wouldn't disabling the DEF system void the existing factory warranty? 

 

21 minutes ago, Robert Street said:

John I don’t recommend removing the particulate system nor the DEF system as true no inspection down there but I would hate to see you caught up in a situation like my neighbor was with her older F250 and a modified exhaust system. When it came time for her to sell her 7.3 with 6 speed manual(ugh) it could not be retitled she lost enough due to that 6 speed but I think the new exhaust cost more than the sale.

just drive your truck and enjoy. I have 34,000 on mine that was new in January last year and no def sensor issues but have had DIC warnings that the regen wasn’t complete.  I was able to make a trip down to Denver and the regen finally did it’s job

robert

 

The only way I would remotely even consider it if I was out of warranty.  I have a friend of mine who had a fairly new truck still under warranty and decided he needed to put a tuning box in it. Why, I thought it ran fine. any how. once he plugged this box into his truck the driver information system scrolled " ECM PROGRAM HAS BEEN VIOLATED" there was no other LED display permitted on the dash. He could not go to the dealer because they would void the warranty immediately, so he had to ask around to find a guy who could make the problem go away. That technician told him to toss that "box" in the trash and don't even think about it ever again. He told him to trade in the truck ASAP because  it is possible that GM could detect that the box was installed.  So he got rid of it.

 

 I have a good friend of mine who needs another truck, and he keeps bugging me to find out when I am going to trade mine in so he could buy it.  I still have another 18 months or 25,000 miles left on the extended GM warranty that I bought. The nice part is that the GM warranty is a simple transfer. I just don't want to sell anything to anyone that has a problem, it is not right.   

[Stude Light]

1 hour ago, Curti said:

Wouldn't disabling the DEF system void the existing factory warranty? 

I'm not sure how the OEM dealership network would handle that with regards to warranty. The Government (EPA, CARB) requires the OEMs to force the driver into compliance on the DEF system such as limiting speed and range until the DEF fluid is added or a fault repaired. Disabling the system does not affect the engine nor performance except through the controls that recognize the system isn't working properly and forces you to fix it. I'm with the other folks in recommending that you do not disable the system.

Scott

Edited January 7, 2018 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Actually it depends on which diesel you have for starters.  My friend who builds diesels, (actually hired the Ford mechanic away from the Ford dealer to help because he had too much work) Restudded my 6.0 (ford's brilliant original design) put in all the updates and a few tricks then said get a tuner on that thing and you will be much happier with it.  He said set it for middle of the road tow haul and it will run like a new truck. 

He drives one every day and he's a Dodge man but figured since he knew them inside and out he would buy one of them for a beater, which he got cheap because it needed the heads done.  (I will say it's some super nice beater)  it's not stock either,  or are any of the Cummins he has and likes the most. 

I don't have experience with the others, but I've been told by many 6.0 guys that once the Ford problems are fixed a light tune is a good thing for them.  I know a friend with a Duramax as well and his is far from stock,  but I don't remember exactly what he did to it.  All of these guys are serious Diesel gear heads though and study everything inside and out about them.  I've heard the EGR is the big problem besides the head studs in the 6.0. 

All that's been fixed so I should be good to go.  Worse problem I have is a couple lazy injectors when it gets real cold. 

I already have mine sold if I get around to selling it,  but I have to find another truck I like as much that I can pay up front for as I did with this.  I don't like payments if I can help it.  Thus the reason my garage isn't finished yet.  New trucks at 60G plus are just getting ridiculous. I would rather spend 20 or less and put the other 40G in another old car.  I'll just have to buy another one from Florida and have it shipped up like I did this. Rust free ones according to the dealers interpretation around here are a joke. 

149KMI on mine so it's just getting broke in. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[padgett]

Just a comment but something I learned about diesel, particularly turbo diesels (the best kind). They are kinda like horses, if you run them to death they will let you. The higher the tune the more power it will make right up to meltdown. And when it quits,  its gonna be ex$pen$ive.

 

Key is to have at least one EGT gauge and pay attention to it (big red flashing light when it hits the limit is good). And when the temp goes up, slow down, as simple as that.

 

ps and after a hard pull, let it idle for a while until the temp comes down. Seems like people just figure the computer will take care of everything. Not true particularly with diesels

[Curti]

I had a 98 24 valve Ram  that we installed stage III injectors and a mild tune after the 100,000 mile warranty . The power was noticeable increased.    The trans was a manual 5 speed.  The problem then became when going up a hill with a trailer load full , it would spin the clutch.  So then install a South bend clutch.  Then U-joints. The motor was bullet-proof, the Dodge was not.   I traded that truck in on my 2014   Cummins with an automatic.  This truck would pull my old one sideways.  I vividly recall the pleasant smile on the salesman's face when we took the 98 on a test drive prior to trading it in.