Cheap shocks for a 63-65

[KongaMan]

If you're looking for new shocks for a 1st gen, and you're OK with the luxo-ride of Monroes, there's a pretty good deal at Rock Auto.  Front shocks (5759) are $9.90 each; rears (5760) are $16.79 each.  It gets better: Monroe is also offering a $30 rebate on the purchase of 4 shocks.  Add it all up, and it appears that you can get a complete set of shocks for about $24 plus whatever they charge you for shipping.

 

Front shocks: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=294363&cc=1319464&jsn=292

Rear shocks: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=294364&cc=1319464&jsn=294

Rebate form: https://www.rockauto.com/Images/CurrPromoFiles/2017(US)MonroeHoliday.pdf

[RivNut]

I put a set of these on my 64.  As long as I'm not racingdown some canyon road, they work fine.  At least as good as the OE ones.  Specific part numbers just for the 1st generation Rivieras.  No other applications.

 

Ed

[KongaMan]

Monroe lists the same front shocks (5759) for all fullsize Buicks of that period.  Strangely enough, they don't list rear shocks for any of those cars (including the Riviera).  Go figger.

 

FWIW, Gabriel lists the same front (82087) and rear (82609) shocks for the Riviera, Electra, Le Sabre, etc.

Edited January 2, 2018 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[RivNut]

That's probably why Rock Auto is selling them so cheaply; they're being discontinued.

; 

[rodneybeauchamp]

Thanks guys, have just ordered a set of 4. Bad luck the rebate is not applicable outside USA but still a bargain for four.

 

I had fitted a set of Gabriel’s recently and find the ride is firm but harsh. You seem to feel every bump from the rear end and not what I would expect from a Riviera even though it was standard with “Heavy duty springs and shocks”. So hoping the Monroe’s might be a better ride. 

 

Failing that, it might be time to look at the bushes in the rear sway bar strut thingummy gigger that mounts to the body and rear axle. There was a post on this forum recently explaining how the bushes were replaced.

cheers

Rodney ??

 

[dr914]

If I was going to put a "cheap" shock on my Riviera, I would install KYB gas

[slosteve]

7 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

I had fitted a set of Gabriel’s recently and find the ride is firm but harsh. You seem to feel every bump from the rear end and not what I would expect from a Riviera even though it was standard with “Heavy duty springs and shocks”. So hoping the Monroe’s might be a better ride. 

 

Rodney, I found the same true with the Monroes that I put on the rear and I have replaced all the rear end bushings. Rock Auto used to offer sets of 'OE' shocks but they were relatively very expensive so I passed, but often wondered if they might've been the better choice.

[rodneybeauchamp]

5 hours ago, slosteve said:

 

Rodney, I found the same true with the Monroes that I put on the rear and I have replaced all the rear end bushings. Rock Auto used to offer sets of 'OE' shocks but they were relatively very expensive so I passed, but often wondered if they might've been the better choice.

 

Steve, when you say “replaced all the rear end bushings” that would mean one top and one bottom for the rear stabiliser bar and one each side for the rear lower control arms. Are there any others that I need to consider?

 

Thinking that replacing these and the body mounts should bring back “the new car ride”. Or am I chasing the impossible here? ??

[KongaMan]

There are two bushings on each rear control arm (two lower arms, one upper arm), and isolators on the springs.  The 6 control arm bushings are identical -- but quite expensive if you buy them pre-made (~$80 each from Rare Parts, and they are the only source).  It's much more economical to buy Cadillac bushings and add a shim (~$60 total for the bushings, shims are DIY; specifics are posted elsewhere).  The Cadillac bushings are ACDelco part #45G11006.  You get two bushings in each package.

 

BTW, this is what my track bar bushings looked like when I replaced them:

 

 

That's what 50 years of hard living will do to you.

[Riviera63]

13 hours ago, KongaMan said:

There are two bushings on each rear control arm (two lower arms, one upper arm), and isolators on the springs.  The 6 control arm bushings are identical -- but quite expensive if you buy them pre-made (~$80 each from Rare Parts, and they are the only source).  It's much more economical to buy Cadillac bushings and add a shim (~$60 total for the bushings, shims are DIY; specifics are posted elsewhere).  The Cadillac bushings are ACDelco part #45G11006.  You get two bushings in each package.

 

BTW, this is what my track bar bushings looked like when I replaced them:

 

 

That's what 50 years of hard living will do to you.

 

Replacing the track bar bushings makes a huge difference in handling. It is an easy fix and they are readily available. When I first got my car my brother-in-law and I drove my 63 Riviera to the ROA Convention in Colorado Springs. On the way out he was concerned about the handling of my car. At that time he knew the Riv much better than I did and replacing the track bar bushings is the first thing he mentioned. We were staying with a friend of his outside of Denver. We found new bushings at a local NAPA parts store and changed them in his buddies garage. It was a much better ride on the way back to Wisconsin.

 

Bill

[slosteve]

15 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Thinking that replacing these and the body mounts should bring back “the new car ride”. Or am I chasing the impossible here? ??

 

Not sure on this one yet Rodney, as I'm chasing the same so-far elusive state of euphoria. Received my CARS body mount kit but have not installed it yet as it appears 'lacking' in substance. I have an inquiry in to Classic Buicks but have not heard back yet. Kongas response to your bushing question is 'right on'. I did a write up (with photos) on these a couple years ago.

 

Steve

[KongaMan]

It's important to remember that "new car ride" is defined by the standards of the early 60s rather than the standards of today.  It won't be as tight and responsive as a contemporary sports sedan, but you should expect improvement after a thorough R&R.  Like going bald, the degradation is slow -- but the contrast between before and after is noticeable. 

[DualQuadDave]

Your track bar is not that bad.  I have taken bars out of parts cars w/ no bushing left at all.  FYI, cheap shocks ride like cheap shocks.  If you own and actually drive a Riv, put the Bilsteins on it, at least.  Viking now has a drop in application, also and way better than the Bilstein.  The best are adj, but requires the front control arm mods to make work, but totally worth it.

[KongaMan]

Some folks appreciate these cars for -- in large part -- the original design and engineering therein.  For them, esoteric mods aren't just pointless, they're counter to the reason they own the car to begin with.

[slosteve]

Thanks KongaMan, for helping me expand my knowledge of our language as I had to look 'esoteric' up in the book.

My particular goal is to get the Riv to ride like I think it did when it was new. I would agree with Dave in that cheap shocks don't meet my expectation.

 

Steve

[KongaMan]

45 minutes ago, slosteve said:

My particular goal is to get the Riv to ride like I think it did when it was new. I would agree with Dave in that cheap shocks don't meet my expectation.

 

Except that those cheap shocks are probably pretty close to OEM performance.   You could make a strong argument that the Bilsteins, etc. represent a greater departure from new.

 

If you've overhauled your steering and suspension systems (new springs, bushings, tie rods, ball joints, etc. as needed), then what you get with the Monroes is just about what you got when you took delivery from the dealer.  That's not to say that you should be accept it or learn to live with it, but it is to say that it's a realistic baseline for historical reference.

[TexRiv_63]

In my experience, if the goal is to duplicate the original ride and handling of a mid 1960s car the addition of ANY modern gas pressurized shock will not help, it will most likely slightly improve the handling but will degrade the ride comfort. The more "high performance" the shock tuning is the more it will do these two things. The addition of radial tires usually has the same result.

[RivNut]

Don't confuse "cheap" as in poor quality with "cheap" as in inexpensive.  When Chip stated that Rock Auto had some cheap shocks for the 1st generation Rivieras,  I think he meant that you could get an OE quality shock for just a few bucks. I've been running theses shocks on two Rivieras and have no problems with them. But, I'm not trying to create something that you can drive down a mountain road at the speed of light.  If I want to do that,  I'll trade in my Riviera for a Ferrari.  Gotta love 'em for what they are, not something you're expecting from a 2018 Corvette.

 

I found out that I need to replace the center link on my 94 Roadmaster.  I checked prices and found the same part number on Amazon Prime "cheaper" than on Rock Auto and Amazon shipped free.  I bought the ACDelco part 'cause I thought it would be better than some aftermarket brand.  When I unboxed it, I saw that it was made in China.  ?  Not inexpensive and not cheap. What could I have done differently in replacing the center link to make the wagon handle like a Lamborghini? I did buy KYB shocks for it, but they were just as "cheap" as Monroes or Gabriel's.  But, they are made in Malaysia. What's a guy to do? Cheap, not made in the U.S., ?

[KongaMan]

24 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Don't confuse "cheap" as in poor quality with "cheap" as in inexpensive.  When Chip stated that Rock Auto had some cheap shocks for the 1st generation Rivieras,  I think he meant that you could get an OE quality shock for just a few bucks.

 

Bingo.  I was just making folks aware of a way to get some decent parts for a real good price.  I mean, if you're happy with factory performance, a complete set of OEM-quality shocks for $24 + shipping is not a bad deal.  Some other folks must have thought so as well, because the $10 closeout front shocks are sold out (they're back up to $17 each).

 

24 minutes ago, RivNut said:

I found out that I need to replace the center link on my 94 Roadmaster.  I checked prices and found the same part number on Amazon Prime "cheaper" than on Rock Auto and Amazon shipped free.

 

Along those same lines, Amazon can be a good place to look for bargains.  Examples: I just bought two Rare Parts lower control arm bushings for $12.50 each and a set of ACDelco front springs for a 63 Electra convertible for $33, all with free shipping.  I guess that when parts in inventory don't sell, they mark them down until they do, then change them to "will ship when available" at list price.  Those bushings are now up to $71 each; the springs are $95 plus $34 in shipping.  Lucky me.

 

And no, don't bother looking for Amazon bargains on Rare Parts stuff for a first gen; I've already done that.

[rodneybeauchamp]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

Don't confuse "cheap" as in poor quality with "cheap" as in inexpensive.  When Chip stated that Rock Auto had some cheap shocks for the 1st generation Rivieras,  I think he meant that you could get an OE quality shock for just a few bucks. 

 

Hi all, I agree, the sale represents a genuine saving on a quality part, that should produce an acceptable ride. ????

 

In fact for me, these aren’t cheap shockers at all! I have already replaced mine with new Gabriel gas a few months back ( at more than these prices) My Australian supplier was out of the Monroe at the time.

 

plus The freight to Australia is more than the shockers cost, but that’s the joys of living down under. ?

 

However, I find the Gabriels are giving a harsh ride, especially at the rear as I seem to feel every bump. We we are in the country so 90% of my Riviera driving is country roads, so hoping the Monroe’s, along with the rear track bar bushes coming will smooth it out.  

 

So this sale of “cheap shocks” gives me an opportunity to try the softer Monroe’s at a cheaper price, after all “its only money and you can’t take it with you”  

 

And my “Miller Time” has been curtailed considerably! ????

 

[slosteve]

4 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

However, I find the Gabriels are giving a harsh ride, especially at the rear as I seem to feel every bump. We we are in the country so 90% of my Riviera driving is country roads, so hoping the Monroe’s, along with the rear track bar bushes coming will smooth it out.  

So this sale of “cheap shocks” gives me an opportunity to try the softer Monroe’s at a cheaper price, after all “its only money and you can’t take it with you”  

 

 

 

Shock technology has changed a bit from 1965 and in my opinion in a negative way. Back then they were dampened with oil and today they use a combination oil/gas; mostly the latter. I still have the original shocks that came out of this car and they are a stout piece of work - big & heavy, and wore out. The Monroes that replaced them are much slimmer and lighter. Most of these new shocks are 50/50, meaning essentially that the shock action works the same in both directions. Yes, they do the job but not the way the originals did. I'm afraid that to accomplish my goal I'm going to have spend the $$ for an upscale adjustable that can be tuned in both directions; up & rebound.

 

Steve

Edited January 5, 2018 by slosteve
More info/opinion (see edit history)

[Jim Cannon]

One thing to check, to get an original ride, is the tire pressure.  The stock pressure was (I'm doing this from memory) about 24 psi.  This adds a lot of softness to the ride.  It might lower gas mileage, though.

 

The track bar bushings (the bar that goes side to side, between rear axle and frame) really help reduce sway in the rear of the car when driving.  I noticed a big improvement in handling when I replaced the bushings, especially at higher speed.  I put in the new polygraphite bushings from P-S-T:

 

https://p-s-t.com/i-23160475-polygraphite-rear-track-bar-bushing-set.html#!year%3D1965||make%3DBUICK||model%3DRIVIERA

 

Their part number POLY37111

 

Pretty low cost, really.  Easy to install.  The hardest part is getting the old bushings out!

 

 

 

[rodneybeauchamp]

7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

One thing to check, to get an original ride, is the tire pressure.  The stock pressure was (I'm doing this from memory) about 24 psi.  This adds a lot of softness to the ride.  It might lower gas mileage, though.

 

The track bar bushings (the bar that goes side to side, between rear axle and frame) really help reduce sway in the rear of the car when driving.  I noticed a big improvement in handling when I replaced the bushings, especially at higher speed.  I put in the new polygraphite bushings from P-S-T:

 

https://p-s-t.com/i-23160475-polygraphite-rear-track-bar-bushing-set.html#!year%3D1965||make%3DBUICK||model%3DRIVIERA

 

Their part number POLY37111

 

Pretty low cost, really.  Easy to install.  The hardest part is getting the old bushings out!

 

 

 

 

Hi Jim, these poly-graphite are what I have coming from P-S-T.  

 

Re tyre pressure, am running 235/75 R15 and had been putting 32 up front and 30 at rear. Have just recently dropped this tp 30 up front and 29 in the rear.  I’m interested in what other owners are running too and what effect it has on tyre wear etc.

[riv2x4]

I ordered a set of 4 Monroe's from Rock.  The other ride issue component is tires.  Radials ride much different than the original Bias Ply, all other things being equal.

[NC1968Riviera]

I found and ordered a front and rear set of original NOS fluid filled shocks for my 68. I was concerned about dried seals in them. My mechanic checked them out and said they were good in his opinion. I had them installed at the same time I had the bags installed in the rear springs. The ride of the car is a lot less bouncy and not harsh at all since getting rid of the old shocks. The old shocks were the old spiral body units, so maybe they were the originals? I don't know.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Fayetteville, NC (see edit history)

[jsgun]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 9:32 PM, DualQuadDave said:

Your track bar is not that bad.  I have taken bars out of parts cars w/ no bushing left at all.  FYI, cheap shocks ride like cheap shocks.  If you own and actually drive a Riv, put the Bilsteins on it, at least.  Viking now has a drop in application, also and way better than the Bilstein.  The best are adj, but requires the front control arm mods to make work, but totally worth it.

 

I looked those up, they're interesting. It's a straight bolt in? I'm a firm believer in that shocks make the car.

[KongaMan]

Shocks are like the final piece of the puzzle -- but even the best shocks are of limited utility if everything else isn't up to snuff.

 

Consider this: a set of Vi-King shocks might be $800.  For that same $800, you can get new front and rear control arm bushings, track bar bushings, reaction rod bushings, stabilizer bar links and bushings, springs, OEM-level shocks, idler arm, tie rods, and ball joints.  If your steering and suspension are showing the effects of time, which course will provide the greater benefit?

[RivNut]

When I got my first car, I can remember my dad talking to me about some of the "improvements" I wanted to make.  He would accuse me of wanting to put an $80 saddle on a $20 horse.   

[Jim Cannon]

19 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

 

Hi Jim, these poly-graphite are what I have coming from P-S-T.  

 

Re tyre pressure, am running 235/75 R15 and had been putting 32 up front and 30 at rear. Have just recently dropped this tp 30 up front and 29 in the rear.  I’m interested in what other owners are running too and what effect it has on tyre wear etc.

Rodney-

Just as a test, try 24 psi in all 4 tyres and test drive for comfort.

 

There was actually a Technical Service Bulletin issued by Buick on this very topic, advising dealers to check the pressure when a car owner complains about harsh ride quality.

 

 

 

 

[Paul K.]

I like Monroe shocks but do not like the OE Spectre line. 

 

I installed 4 of these on my 66 Cadillac and they were terrible. The shocks they replaced were at least 20 years old and 2 were leaking. I noticed virtually no difference with the new Monroes and they were real floaty feeling especially in the rear. A bounce test with the new Monroes went over 2 to 3 cycles.  One of my students owns a repair shop and won’t install the Monroe OE Spectre shocks after experiencing similar results as me. 

[jframe]

21 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

Rodney-

Just as a test, try 24 psi in all 4 tyres and test drive for comfort.

 

There was actually a Technical Service Bulletin issued by Buick on this very topic, advising dealers to check the pressure when a car owner complains about harsh ride quality.

 

 

 

 

Can you run factory specified tire pressures with modern radial tires?

[RivNut]

Have you checked to see what the speed rating is on your tires?   The higher the speed rating, the less flex in the sidewall, hence the less the sidewall will absorb any bumps in the road.  

 

I haven't changed anything in the way of suspension on my 94 Roadmaster Wagon, but about 6 weeks ago I took off the 245/45 ZR 20 summer  tires and put on a set of 225/75R15 M&S tires with an S speed rating.  The difference in the ride is like day and night.  The Z rated tires have a really stiff sidewall and there's no flex to them.  I run both sets of tires at 32 PSI.  SAME shocks, same springs, same bushings.  I don't need a Z rated 149 mph tire, the S rated tires are good for 112 mph. My  car won't go that fast.  

 

So, if you're thinking that you need stiffer shocks to improve performance, you might want to first take look at your tires and see what kinds of improvements you can make there.  High performance shocks could put a lot of stress on tires that are designed for a grocery getter.

Edited January 7, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[DualQuadDave]

On 1/5/2018 at 8:36 PM, jsgun said:

 

I looked those up, they're interesting. It's a straight bolt in? I'm a firm believer in that shocks make the car.

Your right, the shocks do make the car.  I have direct experience with the QA1's and have installed them in 3 different Riv's, including mine. Night/day difference in driving,  words dont express how different it is.  I have not tried the Vikings yet, but will soon.  I have put the Bilsteins in 2 cars and they are ok, but not even the same ballpark as the billet shocks.  It's my experience that 2 best things you can do to a Riv are the billet shocks and a 4 core radiator. Both make drastic improvements in how the car performs.

[DualQuadDave]

On 1/6/2018 at 11:42 PM, RivNut said:

Have you checked to see what the speed rating is on your tires?   The higher the speed rating, the less flex in the sidewall, hence the less the sidewall will absorb any bumps in the road.  

 

I haven't changed anything in the way of suspension on my 94 Roadmaster Wagon, but about 6 weeks ago I took off the 245/45 ZR 20 summer  tires and put on a set of 225/75R15 M&S tires with an S speed rating.  The difference in the ride is like day and night.  The Z rated tires have a really stiff sidewall and there's no flex to them.  I run both sets of tires at 32 PSI.  SAME shocks, same springs, same bushings.  I don't need a Z rated 149 mph tire, the S rated tires are good for 112 mph. My  car won't go that fast.  

 

So, if you're thinking that you need stiffer shocks to improve performance, you might want to first take look at your tires and see what kinds of improvements you can make there.  High performance shocks could put a lot of stress on tires that are designed for a grocery getter.

Sadly, there are no high performance 225's with a V or Z rating other than a Vogue.  Best you'll find is a T speed rating.  I am one of the few people who ran a V rated Comp T/A whitewall back 15+ years ago. Basically a cop car tire, they were fantastic.  The whole "I only drive so fast so I dont need a high speed rated tire" has only a little truth in it.  If you drive faster than 40mph, a quality performance tire is noticeable vs the current S rated Chinese crap, however, reality is we don't have options, so we have to make the crap work as well as possible.  There is no truth in "shocks put stress on the tires" .  Shocks dampen the effects of the springs in the car, that is all they do.  Good shocks control them better(in both directions, bound and rebound), adjustable shocks let you tailor the ride to exactly what you want, soft or firm, without negative effects.  I have done it, I have spent the time and $$$ researching it.  I am pretty sure I am the only guy on this forum who has $1000 worth of shocks on his Riv and definitely the only guy who has put them on more than Riv.  It's funny, this thread started with a "9.99 special" , but I am just trying to share experience and improve an already great car.  

[RivNut]

You are correct when you state that shocks don't put stress on tires.  What I should have said was that by upgrading all of the suspension parts to try to make a canyon carver out of a first generation Riviera, you, as the driver, would have a tendency to drive hard enough to put stress on underrated tires.  

[slosteve]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:53 AM, DualQuadDave said:

  I have direct experience with the QA1's and have installed them in 3 different Riv's, including mine. Night/day difference in driving,  words dont express how different it is.  

 

That's all I needed to hear, Dave. I'm going in for some QA1's for the rear. Would you have a part # that you used?

 

Steve

[jsgun]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:53 AM, DualQuadDave said:

Your right, the shocks do make the car.  I have direct experience with the QA1's and have installed them in 3 different Riv's, including mine. Night/day difference in driving,  words dont express how different it is.  I have not tried the Vikings yet, but will soon.  I have put the Bilsteins in 2 cars and they are ok, but not even the same ballpark as the billet shocks.  It's my experience that 2 best things you can do to a Riv are the billet shocks and a 4 core radiator. Both make drastic improvements in how the car performs.

Did you have a satin black 65 Riv in the LA Craigslist earlier last year? There was one listed that had custom coilovers on all four corners. It was running 15" reversed wires and white and gold pinstripe vogue tires. Very interesting car.

[DualQuadDave]

Hi JS, no that was not me. I am in SoFlo. Did not see that Riv, but had to have the Viking coilovers, no likely he made a set fit.  

 

Steve, will PM you part # when I get home tonight. FYI, I need to know what is your ride height. Stock, 1-3in drop?  Different part #'s depending on how low you are.

[slosteve]

8 hours ago, DualQuadDave said:

Steve, will PM you part # when I get home tonight. FYI, I need to know what is your ride height. Stock, 1-3in drop?  Different part #'s depending on how low you are.

 

Dave, I have an air ride setup. Ride height is about 2-3" lowered. Goes 'a bit' lower for show only. Do you use non-adjustable, single adjustable or double adjustable? I've been on their website looking at them.

 

Steve

[DualQuadDave]

Hi Steve, will get back to you this weekend with the specific part # you need.  I use the single adj in the front and doubles in the rear, but if you are on air, the singles are probably plenty good enough.