Xander Wildeisen Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Here is how someone does it with no drawing skills. Just measure it out in scale on a few pictures, and cut them up, tape back together with sections added in. Car will be about the size of a C5 Corvette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 If there are documented instances of poor factory fits, less then perfect paint jobs, crooked emblems and so forth does that mean a car "restored" with warts and all, even though documented, would not stand a chance of winning its class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 12 hours ago, cahartley said: If there are documented instances of poor factory fits, less then perfect paint jobs, crooked emblems and so forth does that mean a car "restored" with warts and all, even though documented, would not stand a chance of winning its class? It largely depends on the club, but that's the state of the hobby and the point of this entire discussion, yes. More and more marque-specific clubs are deducting points for over-restoration, but clubs like the AACA and CCCA where it's impossible for judges to know all things about all cars, it necessarily comes down to a beauty contest and a best guess on the part of the judges, giving the benefit of the doubt to the car. That's really the only way to do it, I get it. I don't like it, but if you want to hand out trophies, you either have to know everything or just do your best with what you have. You could have a [correctly] flawed Corvette that might be an NCRS Top Flight award winner, but I bet it wouldn't get an AACA National First Prize if there was an over-restored car next to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxgvd Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Interesting discussion, is it not. So certain clubs rewards historical correctness in favour of a beauty contest but not the AACA? What does the Model A Ford club do? Certainly every detail and nuance is known to the judges and owners. Maybe they do not have judging at their meets, if so, do they reduce for over restored or possibly it is a beauty contest? Does anyone reading this attend Pebble Beach. How do they pick the winners? I think they are trying to accept flaws of a manufactured item. Regards, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaflash8 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 25 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: It largely depends on the club, but that's the state of the hobby and the point of this entire discussion, yes. More and more marque-specific clubs are deducting points for over-restoration, but clubs like the AACA and CCCA where it's impossible for judges to know all things about all cars, it necessarily comes down to a beauty contest and a best guess on the part of the judges, giving the benefit of the doubt to the car. That's really the only way to do it, I get it. I don't like it, but if you want to hand out trophies, you either have to know everything or just do your best with what you have. You could have a [correctly] flawed Corvette that might be an NCRS Top Flight award winner, but I bet it wouldn't get an AACA National First Prize if there was an over-restored car next to it. I've got 247 or 248 National Judging credits earned since 1970. I agree that a lot of mistakes are made, but not to the extent indicated. Paint is the biggest producer of that because of the basecoat/clearcoat formula modern painters only know how to use. You can't even buy lacquer in most places and it's almost impossible to find a painter old enough to know how to use it. So, paint jobs are far more glistening and far less glass smooth than they're supposed to be. Actually what they call single stage better duplicates the finish of lacquer, but even then it doesn't really duplicate the smoothness or shine of lacquer. Originally most cars had the chassis done in something called chassis black, but it didn't last long past the first rainy day. So, when I asked this question at my first AACA judging school in 1970, the answer I received was to use enamel if you wanted not to do it over and over. That makes sense. Black accessory engine parts are overdone with shiny enamel or single state.... or worse yet with basecoat/clearcoat, but showcars do duplicate the original colors and they are better done than original so they will last longer. When straight 8 Buicks were new all of the sheet metal parts of the engine were painted black by the sub-contractor. The engine was assembled and spray the color of the year in one piece. It was necessarily sloppy and showcars are usually done neatly. I don't consider that over-resoration. Perhaps the chassis is, but the reason for it is, as explained above, common sense. AACA expects neatly done with authentic materials as closely as can be found in existence. Reproduction parts has helped with that. You might be right about the reactions of an individual judge or more than one, but AACA teaches that if it looks good, looks neatly done, and is authentic it gets no extra credit for some extra shine. I'm just about ready to retire, but the AACA judging system, to me, is the best in the hobby. Some single car clubs simply carry authenticity to extremes. If you take that to extremes, virtually all still existing 30's cars would have to be black despite the availability of all different colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 All of the stuff I have done, has been on the ISCA side of the world. The car pictured below was entered in the Forest Grove Show in WA State. It was a blast, I was shocked when the judges came up to me and asked for me to start the car, fold down the top, open the hood, open the rumble seat, turn on the headlights/tail lights. I thought it was really cool that they wanted to see all of the cars components working. On the ISCA side, all your car has to do is start, and go forward and backwards under it's own power. And that is only if some one contests that your car can not. Some of the cars do not even have coolant in them, or gear oil. If your hood is closed, the engine does not get judged. Door closed, interior is not judged. There are a lot of cars that do not fit that well, and asking owners to open and close stuff would be fun to watch. I have heard stories of people putting money on top of their frame rails for the judges to find. I have had cars damaged in shows, I have had lug nuts loosened up on a car. (that one could get someone killed) From what I have seen out here, the classic/custom car scene is very manipulated. Because this State has no license, laws, oversight, regulations, consumer protection. It allows a sector of an industry to police/govern it's self. This make the small shops targets, and people around here just watch as another business trying to make it, gets taken out, or pushed into fraud. I hope things change, a lot of stuff is bubbling up under the surface out here. It would be great to see some form of a Concours show out here, to me they are more about judging the cars for being cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Xander, You were lost . FG is in Oregon, my hi school alma mater. The only entries I have ever done at the FG Concourse were in the cars for sale lot. FG used to be famous for the Barber Shop Quartets. It is known as Ballad Town. They may still do that, I live about 20 miles away now and its not really on the way to anything. Still visit a few old hs buddies there. Just did my 50 year reunion. All of the survivers got old. Edited December 31, 2017 by JACK M (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Very large brain fart there Jack M. Oregon is where we were, did you sell the Imperial/Chrysler? You have a new picture under your name, new purchase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 The Imperial now resides in Florida, The new owner is going to totally go thru it and promises pictures in a couple of years. Yea, I was able to buy this 65 300 that I have been lusting after for many years. 29000 original miles, Its a four speed car. Fun Stuff !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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