bowtieollie Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Good day to my fellow AACA friends, I am a bit confused and reaching out for a clarification on Class Judging with the AACA. I am the proud, original owner of a 1975 Chevrolet Cosworth Vega and am now entertaining a show schedule with the AACA for 2018/19 with this vehicle. I do not know which Class she should be placed for proper judging? Thank you very much and Happy Holidays to all! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowtieollie Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 A bit more information would be needed in order to answer your question. Is the car a restored "showcar" or is it an original survivor, or is it a "daily driver" type of car. A "20 footer" would probably best be entered be in Driver Participation Class (DPC). A basically all original, although weathered car would probably best be entered in Historic Preservation of Original Features (HPOF). A restored 1975 show car should be entered in Class 27K (Production Vehicles 1974-1975). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowtieollie Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Hello Matt, Thank you for the courtesy of the reply to my question. The Cosworth is in showroom condition - so I shall choose the 27K class. Merry Christmas to you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Sounds good. I hope to see it on a showfield soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniesSS Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 21 hours ago, bowtieollie said: Hello Matt, Thank you for the courtesy of the reply to my question. The Cosworth is in showroom condition - so I shall choose the 27K class. Merry Christmas to you! Just wondering if you're in VA? I think I judged this beautiful car this year at your local Chapter show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real61ss Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Bring it to Charlotte Ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real61ss Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 5 hours ago, AnniesSS said: Just wondering if you're in VA? I think I judged this beautiful car this year at your local Chapter show He's in Pa. Annie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowtieollie Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Hi Annie, I know your Suburban from previous events we have shared. As Tommy points out - I am a PA guy. Last time the Cosworth was in VA was in 2008 at a VCCA event where she earned her Junior. Its time to introduce her to the AACA events. Only issue are tires - as they no longer produce the alpha numeric radials. The P metric will have to suffice. Merry Christmas to you both! Nice to hear from an dear friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniesSS Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Merry Christmas to you too!! Look forward to seeing YOUR car again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) On 12/16/2017 at 5:41 PM, MCHinson said: A bit more information would be needed in order to answer your question. Is the car a restored "showcar" or is it an original survivor, or is it a "daily driver" type of car. A "20 footer" would probably best be entered be in Driver Participation Class (DPC). A basically all original, although weathered car would probably best be entered in Historic Preservation of Original Features (HPOF). A restored 1975 show car should be entered in Class 27K (Production Vehicles 1974-1975). I'm planning on showing my original '69 Corvair 500, but do not understand the choice bowtieollie made. If the car is original and not restored, would it be better to enter the car in HPOF ? Thanks. Edited January 10, 2018 by bobg1951chevy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 If it is in showroom condition, it should do fine in the Class Judging either as an original or if it were restored. If unrestored and not in showroom condtion, HPOF would be a better choice. The owner can choose whichever one he or she wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, MCHinson said: If it is in showroom condition, it should do fine in the Class Judging either as an original or if it were restored. If unrestored and not in showroom condtion, HPOF would be a better choice. The owner can choose whichever one he or she wishes. Thank you Mr. Hinson. So, AACA Class Judging does not distinguish between a RESTORED vehicle from a PRESERVED vehicle ? If the above is accurate, there is no benefit to PRESERVE a vehicle, when you can RESTORE a vehicle back to factory appearance .... and obtain the same AACA judging results. To define .... mine is original, not restored, but close to showroom condition with 28,000 miles. Where should it be ? This judging process is still a jumble to me ..... am wanting to obtain my JUDGING MANUAL, but should wait, I've been told for the 2018 copy. My thinking may be erroneous, hoping for everyones' patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would encourge you to come to the NC Region Annual Meeting and attend the judging school. Bring your car and the experienced judges there will be happy to "judge" your car and give you advice on which class you might want to enter your car. If it is original, HPOF would certainly be an appropriate choice. If it is in good enough shape, and you would prefer the more difficult option of competing in Class Judging, that might be how you want to proceed. In a few minutes, an experienced judge could give you an educated opinion on if you would be likely to be successful in Class Judging or not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne L Frantz Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Bobg, I would encourage you to preserve your original car rather than restoring it. There are only so many originals left. You only have two choices: either preserve history or destroy it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 You can get your Judges Guidelines now and free by going to the AACA HOME PAGE and click on PUBLICATIONS. You can download it. This will be the 2017 manual, but for the information you are looking for, it will be accurate. By mid to late February the 2018 manual should be available to download. AACA has three distinct divisions for shows. CLASS JUDGING is point judging of cars. Most are restored, but there are a few original cars shown in this division. Original cars compete against restored cars with no distinction between the two for point deductions. HISTORIC PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) is evaluation and certification of unrestored vehicles. Deductions are made for areas where restoration is observed or disclosed by the owner. This division was established to promote the preservation of unrestored vehicles to be used as guides for individuals restoring their vehicles. DRIVER PARTICIPATION is for cars which may have some restoration done to the point they can not be considered as an HPOF car, but are not restored to the level to compete in Class Judging. This division also permits some modifications without deduction, such as radial tires on a car where they were never offered, a modern radio or aftermarket air conditioning. The Judges Guidelines will explain this in better detail. If you attend the Charlotte show, consider attending the Judges School on Friday at 2:00 in the Media Center at the Speedway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Verne L Frantz said: Bobg, I would encourage you to preserve your original car rather than restoring it. There are only so many originals left. You only have two choices: either preserve history or destroy it. Verne, I understand and agree with your comments. I would not consider any restoration on this car. It has been stored, on and off, for many years. 28.000 miles with documentation since new. Does documentation play a part in the judging process ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, 61polara said: You can get your Judges Guidelines now and free by going to the AACA HOME PAGE and click on PUBLICATIONS. You can download it. This will be the 2017 manual, but for the information you are looking for, it will be accurate. By mid to late February the 2018 manual should be available to download. AACA has three distinct divisions for shows. CLASS JUDGING is point judging of cars. Most are restored, but there are a few original cars shown in this division. Original cars compete against restored cars with no distinction between the two for point deductions. HISTORIC PRESERVATION OF ORIGINAL FEATURES (HPOF) is evaluation and certification of unrestored vehicles. Deductions are made for areas where restoration is observed or disclosed by the owner. This division was established to promote the preservation of unrestored vehicles to be used as guides for individuals restoring their vehicles. DRIVER PARTICIPATION is for cars which may have some restoration done to the point they can not be considered as an HPOF car, but are not restored to the level to compete in Class Judging. This division also permits some modifications without deduction, such as radial tires on a car where they were never offered, a modern radio or aftermarket air conditioning. The Judges Guidelines will explain this in better detail. If you attend the Charlotte show, consider attending the Judges School on Friday at 2:00 in the Media Center at the Speedway. Great information Dave. My car DOES have 13 " radials, but do not know how the radials would affect the evaluation and certification in HPOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne L Frantz Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) Bob, As I understand it, documentation is mostly only a concern in point judging where a feature is questioned by the judges who aren't certain that feature was legit from the factory or the dealer. The guidelines strongly suggest that an owner of a car with certain rare features bring along some documentation to prove they are correct. Verne Edited January 11, 2018 by Verne L Frantz (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification. Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event. Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class. Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 If I understand, radials would count as ONE DEDUCTION and not FIVE DEDUCTIONS for 5 tires ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Verne L Frantz said: Bob, As I understand it, documentation is mostly only a concern in point judging where a feature is questioned by the judges who aren't certain that feature was legit from the factory or the dealer. The guidelines strongly suggest that an owner of a car with certain rare features bring along some documentation to prove they are correct. Verne Verne, the only features / accessories on the car are the ones that came on the car, with the radials being the exception. I have the original window sticker which validates the accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, 61polara said: Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification. Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event. Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class. Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April. Dave, See my comment to Verne, regarding my accessories and window sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 8 hours ago, bobg1951chevy said: If I understand, radials would count as ONE DEDUCTION and not FIVE DEDUCTIONS for 5 tires ? No, Each incorrect tire would receive the maximum deduction for tires. Currently that would be 5 points each. I am waiting for the 2018 Guidelines but I have heard that the number of points for tires will be less. It is basically a rumor, but a well sourced rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Matt ....... 61 polara stated "Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification" I have 5 radial tires, which would CURRENTLY = 25 point deduction. Based on what 61 polara says, my 25 point deduction for radials would never allow me to obtain HPOF certification. Or ..... am I confusing DEDUCTIONS with POINTS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Deductions in HPOF are different from Points in Class Judging. In Class Judging, 5 incorrect tires would currently be a 25 point deduction out of 400 points. In HPOF, as I understand it, that would be one deduction of the 4 that a car the year of your car would be allowed and still be eligible for Certification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 14 hours ago, MCHinson said: Deductions in HPOF are different from Points in Class Judging. In Class Judging, 5 incorrect tires would currently be a 25 point deduction out of 400 points. In HPOF, as I understand it, that would be one deduction of the 4 that a car the year of your car would be allowed and still be eligible for Certification. Thank you Matt for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 10:57 PM, 61polara said: Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification. Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event. Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class. Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April. Dave, please check your messages. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 10:57 PM, 61polara said: Radials would be a deduction in both point judging and HPOF, but for your year car, up to four deductions are permitted for HPOF certification. Based on your comments and pictures, I think HPOF is the best place to register your car in an AACA National event. Documentation of rare features may be needed as well in the HPOF class. Hope to see you and your car at the Charlotte AACA National in April. Correct tires for these cars are pretty much non existent, and have been for some time. Seems like the correct reproduction 13" tires get sidestepped there is not enough of a demand for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 4/11/2018 at 3:12 PM, John348 said: Correct tires for these cars are pretty much non existent, and have been for some time. Seems like the correct reproduction 13" tires get sidestepped there is not enough of a demand for them. The deduction for radials has been lowered from 5 points per tire to 2 points per tire in the 2018 Judging Manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Restorer32 said: The deduction for radials has been lowered from 5 points per tire to 2 points per tire in the 2018 Judging Manual I am aware of that, in my opinion if the correct tire is available then it should be a full deduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) And the full deduction is 2 points per tire! Are we now discussing if the correct tire is unobtainium the deduction should be different? Edited May 18, 2018 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now