Turn signal retrofit.

[J.H.Boland]

For anyone to drive their early cars on today's roads, some form of turn signals are a must. (I once made the hand signal for a right turn and got the one finger salute back)!. The rear ones were easy.A couple of NOS old style trailer lights fitted on either side of the single tail light work fine. Because the car has no bumpers (they were still an option on 1925 Buicks),there didn't seem like an easy place to install them.Putting them on the crossbar between the headlights looked cluttered. I finally decided to mount them on the front spring bushing bolts.by replacing the standard nut with a long nut,and installing an extra set of cowl lamps on special brackets using short 9/16 bolts. They look period correct and are far enough away from the headlights to be visible. Just a suggestion.

Jim

[Bloo]

What was the original application of the front lights?

[dictator27]

The front ones are too low.  JMHO.

 

 

 

[RansomEli]

Clever. I like it.

[CatBird]

I used my fender parking lights. Refitted the socket with a two pin for a two pin 6v bulb. No external difference. ran a new wire inside the factory conduit under the fender.

 

Found a self-cancelling turn indicator. There is a little rubber wheel that touches the edge of the steering wheel, so when you turn, it cancels the blinker. Don't remember the model number but the company is Yankee. Got it used on eBay,

[J.H.Boland]

1 minute ago, CatBird said:

I used my fender parking lights. Refitted the socket with a two pin for a two pin 6v bulb. No external difference. ran a new wire inside the factory conduit under the fender.

 

Found a self-cancelling turn indicator. There is a little rubber wheel that touches the edge of the steering wheel, so when you turn, it cancels the blinker. Don't remember the model number but the company is Yankee. Got it used on eBay,

I did the same with the cowl lamps on my 1929 McLaughlin-Buick.

Jim

[J.H.Boland]

16 hours ago, dictator27 said:

The front ones are too low.  JMHO.

 

 

 

They show up quite well there. If they were mounted by the headlights, the big shiny headlamp bezels would drown them out. The cowl lights are pretty small to add double contact bulbs and they're back quite a ways. Anywhere else and I'd be drilling sheet metal,something I wanted to avoid.

Edited December 9, 2017 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

What was the original application of the front lights?

The front lights are the same as the cowl lights and exact miniatures of the headlights.

[JWLawrence]

Here is a photo showing the use of small motorcycle lights to function as front turn signals on my 37 Packard Six. Ran a wire with headlight and parking light loom to the new lights. I had them painted to match the body color. The rears used the brake light side of the tail lights. JWL

[Xander Wildeisen]

Just drill the reflector inside the headlight bucket, and mount a lamp socket. Install a amber bulb. Then you do not add anything to the outside of the car.  

[Spinneyhill]

9 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Just drill the reflector inside the headlight bucket, and mount a lamp socket. Install a amber bulb.

 

How does that look when the headlights are on?

[PFitz]

FYI, Rhode Island Wire can incorporate the turn signal wires right into the new, correctly color-coded harnesses that they make. They use the existing parking and tail lights of older vehicles that never had turn signals - including 6 volt systems.  The steering column mounted turn signal unit is a modern TRW that looks like the old style, but it also has a four-way emergency flasher switch built in.   Comes with all that's needed, plus instructions for what wire terminals go where.   I've installed their harnesses with the turn signal option in many of my customer's cars.

 

http://www.riwire.com/

 

Paul

Edited December 9, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

29 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Just drill the reflector inside the headlight bucket, and mount a lamp socket. Install a amber bulb. Then you do not add anything to the outside of the car.  

 Drill is a dirty word to me.I wanted to do the install using existing hardware where possible.The lamps are a match to what's already on the car. They are controlled by a pair of discreetly mounted toggle switches with illumination to show they are flashing.Flipping them both gives you four way flashers.Where can I get amber bulbs to replace #63 clearance light bulbs ?

Edited December 9, 2017 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

17 minutes ago, J.H.Boland said:

Where can I get amber bulbs to replace #63 clearance light bulbs ?

Look for single filament amber bulbs with a BA15s mounting. BA= opposite pins, 15 = 15 mm diameter, s=single filament. Here are the specs:

http://www.taillightking.com/images/LightBulbs/LightBulbSpecs/63Bulb.pdf

 

Here is an ebay sale that didn't sell:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-63-6-volt-Amber-Bulbs-Mini-Indicator-/322448785987?rmvSB=true

 

Just ask the www and you will find them.

[Dave Young]

Jim.  I think the lights look great where you mounted them.   Are those cowl lamps new and easy to get ?  I need to do a similar setup on my '28 Chandler.

[29 franklin]

Paul What TRW switch and lights did you use ?  I would like to do the same on the 31 but not sure where to mount ,what lights to use etc.  Mine is the 151 so no fender or cowl lights. I dont think the parking light in the Headlight would work well for turn signals . What do you think ? Thanks Jim you can PM me  if you want to 

[Marty Roth]

Actually I think that the

18 minutes ago, 29 franklin said:

Paul What TRW switch and lights did you use ?  I would like to do the same on the 31 but not sure where to mount ,what lights to use etc.  Mine is the 151 so no fender or cowl lights. I dont think the parking light in the Headlight would work well for turn signals . What do you think ? Thanks Jim you can PM me  if you want to 

 

Actually I think that the parking light bulb inside the headlamp bucket would work very well except for at night when the headlights are on because the reflector would be a big help, and most of us don't do a lot of nighttime driving in pre-1930s cars. Even so, the turn signal would still give notice to drivers behind you.

 

I have a set-up in our 1937 Buick Roadmaster where the fender-mounted park lights and the taillights are dual-filament and serve as turn signals .

 

I wish we had thought to do that when we made the new wiring harness for the 1930 Packard. The fender-mounted park lights are perfect for turn signals 

[PFitz]

58 minutes ago, 29 franklin said:

Paul What TRW switch and lights did you use ?  I would like to do the same on the 31 but not sure where to mount ,what lights to use etc.  Mine is the 151 so no fender or cowl lights. I dont think the parking light in the Headlight would work well for turn signals . What do you think ? Thanks Jim you can PM me  if you want to 

 Jim,

For your Series 151,  Rhode Island  Wire sets up the head light harness to tie in with the turn signal switch so that it uses the parking light bulb in the top of the head light reflector. 

 

RIW provides the turn signal unit and it's loomed harness, plus the flasher unit socket, as part of the option.  You have a choice of a black, or chrome plated body switch.    For a Series 153, it uses the cowl lights as the front turn signals.  Most autoparts stores have, or can order, the 6 volt flasher unit to plug into the socket provided.

 

Then the tail light harness is set up to use the brake light also as a turn signal light.   Plus they add a branch harness to a right tail light.  If you can find an original Franklin tail light and right-hand stanchion (good luck), it works with that, or use a trailer two bulb tail light.

 

When you step on the brakes the turn signal unit interrupts the brake light on that side and makes it flash. The other brake light functions normally during turn signal use.

 

Looking under the car, all the harnesses and wires look factory.

 

Paul

Edited December 9, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[J.H.Boland]

1 hour ago, wilbur said:

Jim.  I think the lights look great where you mounted them.   Are those cowl lamps new and easy to get ?  I need to do a similar setup on my '28 Chandler.

The cowl lights are restored originals.There are no repros that I'm aware of.There are a couple listed separately on Ebay under 1926 Buick.

[cahartley]

I'm going to use the cowl lights on  my '32 Confederate as directional lights too.

I rewired one already and the other is in need too so I'll kill two birds with one stone.......  

[Guest]

Nice job Jim!

I always think it's unusual when people add turn signals to their 30's era cars and choose to use cheap looking, brightly colored amber lenses that just scream Pep Boys. It makes me wonder why they didn't choose to do exactly what you did. There is no shortage of period correct light housings with clear lenses that would be perfect for this job, as you've shown. Again, very nice!

[Spinneyhill]

2 hours ago, cahartley said:

I'm going to use the cowl lights on  my '32 Confederate as directional lights too.

 

I have thought about this, but decided drivers today expect the indicators to be on the front near the corners and I suspect they won't twig it is a direction indicator up there.

[cahartley]

I don't care Spinney.......my primary concern is who's BEHIND me....... 

[J.H.Boland]

17 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

 

I have thought about this, but decided drivers today expect the indicators to be on the front near the corners and I suspect they won't twig it is a direction indicator up there.

Agreed. The cowl lamps on my '29 McLaughlin-Buick are double wired and work out OK because they're fairly large. With the distracted drivers out there these days, even double wired Trippe lights may not be large enough !

[J.H.Boland]

9 minutes ago, cahartley said:

I don't care Spinney.......my primary concern is who's BEHIND me....... 

LED bulbs,large original tail lamps,and a snarly ol'fart license plate all help !

[Xander Wildeisen]

6 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

 

How does that look when the headlights are on?

Here is a link to repro reflectors for a 32. If I remember correct my 37 Hudson had a small bulb in the reflector for the park light, and then a bulb for the headlight. Just drilled (bad word) it out and replaced the socket for a bigger amber bulb. Here is a picture of my dads 37 coupe that had the same thing he just used a red bulb, you can see it with the headlights on.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/282646728637?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=282646728637&rmvSB=true

[Friartuck]

This turn signal controller maybe a help to those wanting to integrate existing or additional lights:

 

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/product-reviews/turnsignal-1.cfm

 

[Bloo]

The "Guide 6004" postwar turn signal switch is small. inconspicuous, and came in at least 2 different mounting styles and several different finishes. Some have a red indicator, some have green. The lever is chrome. They have cancel, via a rubber tire that runs against the back of the steering wheel. There is no 4-way.

 

Some were setup to use the brakelight bulbs, some were not. I have one that was not, and it has the same switch inside as the ones that do interface with the brake lights. Some of the terminals have never had wires soldered to them. I suspect all the units can do this by adding wires.

 

They look like this (more or less):

 

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Here you go.  http://www.installer.com/main.php?page=lights

[Bloo]

And if you are stuck with the tiny parking light sockets, and don't want to drill....

 

21 watt halogen bulbs exist for that socket. Yes it will probably get hot, but there is the whole headlight reflector for a heat sink, and it wont be on constantly. Only white exists in the USA, but amber ones exist in Slovakia! I'm not sure if they are made this way of if someone is doing the bulb paint trick. I have some here but haven't tried them. It is probably as good as it gets in the small socket. These are 6 volt, but there is also 12 volt. Available on Ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1X-BULB-for-Indicator-SIDEMARKER-YELLOW-HALOGEN-LIGHT-6V-21w-BA9S-64113-H21W/371301619358?hash=item56734d169e:g:l0kAAOSwNSxVJm3x

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history)

[CatBird]

11 hours ago, Bloo said:

The "Guide 6004" postwar turn signal switch is small. inconspicuous, and came in at least 2 different mounting styles and several different finishes. Some have a red indicator, some have green. The lever is chrome. They have cancel, via a rubber tire that runs against the back of the steering wheel. There is no 4-way.

 

Some were setup to use the brakelight bulbs, some were not. I have one that was not, and it has the same switch inside as the ones that do interface with the brake lights. Some of the terminals have never had wires soldered to them. I suspect all the units can do this by adding wires.

 

They look like this (more or less):

 

 

 

Exactly! This is what I have in my 1933 Packard Victoria Convertible. Works beautifully! 

[JACK M]

10-4 on the cowl lights.

[Stude Light]

Quote

Turn signal switch

Rear light - used amber bulb

For front signals, I added dual elements to the front parking lamps mounted on the cowl.

On my 1923 Studebaker Light Six, I added cowl lamps from a 1921 Light Six to my rear bumper (using bumper clamps I found on eBay) and used 6V amber lamps, I added a double element to my existing cowl lamps and used a 1918 aftermarket turn signal switch to my steering column to keep things period correct and stay in harmony with the design of the car. I know of a couple of the original Diamond Signal kits that have the switch, mount and original lights that came in the kits, if interested.

Scott