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A few days with a Packard


zipdang

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I don't remember a great deal about this car but I'll try to relate the memories I do have. Back around 1970, my dad had possession of this Packard for just a few days - long enough to take it to a car show somewhere in the Columbus, Ohio area. I believe the story is that a distant relative or possibly just a friend asked Dad to do this for him since the car was for sale and the owner couldn't make the car show. Mom, Dad, and us 5 kids piled in the car and went to the show in style! Believe it or not, four of us rode in the rumble seat with one of us up front between Mom and Dad. On the way there, and while still rolling in traffic, we did a "kid swap" between the front seat and the rumble seat! Yes, we survived childhood just fine.

 

I ran across this photo while going through some of Dad's things. I do not know the people in the car but the picture has "Photo by W.E. Handley" stamped on the back and it was in an envelope with W. E. Handley in the return address and a Columbus, Ohio address.

 

I remember Dad saying it was a Packard Dietrich and I think he said it was 1928. How close am I to being correct? A few years later I asked Dad about what happened to the car, and (again, memory lapses) he said that it was totalled not too long after our weekend with it.

 

Any thoughts?

Packard1.jpg

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I'm not a Packard expert, but it looks to me like a 1929 626 or 633 with a custom body.  The standard convertible coupe did not have chrome windshield frame and front opening doors.  My guess on it being the smaller model of Packard is just the scaling, looking at the people vs. size of car....

 

The other interesting thing is that just about every convertible coupe of this time period had prominent landau irons on the side of the top, which obviously this one does not.

 

What a pretty thing it was, sure makes one sad to think it was totaled, that would be a shame....

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  • David, you are correct about it being a 1929. I think it is a 633 due to the doors in the hood instead of louvers. The windshield does not look like a Deitrich to me.
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The doors in the hood (4 of them ) were on the  640 or 645, the 633 had louvers - but an option in late 1930 (after the 1931 8th series had been introduced) let a 3 door hood be ordered for the 633,733,and 833. I have one of those 3 door hoods. The car has a CCCA badge on the front so the owner belonged to CCCA at that time.

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It just doesn't look big enough to be a 640, but maybe it's just the perspective of the picture.  With all due respect, if it's a 640 or 645, then the young ladies are on the tall side, as usually such a car swallows an individual pretty well.....

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Not a Packard expert but like many cars of the late 1920s and early 1930s the various Packards were built from mid year to mid year, sort of, so if your car is from early in the run it is one year and if late in the run it is the next year. It all depends on your dating criteria - is it model year or date of first registration or actual date of rolling out of the factory? It has always been and always will be a huge can of worms.  Even with more recent cars it could be argued. For example I have a 1965 Pontiac. There is no doubt it is a 1965 model car - the appearance, specification and the serial number confirm that - but I know it was built in the first week of September 1964. By some criteria I could claim it to be 1964.

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Single wiper, unusual flip open windshield with unusual frame, also, interesting door handle and locking mechanism.  Belt line looks run of the mill. Over all the car looks on the small side. Interesting puzzle.

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39 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Single wiper, unusual flip open windshield with unusual frame, also, interesting door handle and locking mechanism.  Belt line looks run of the mill. Over all the car looks on the small side. Interesting puzzle.

I have to disagree, Ed, and tell you to stick with Pierce-Arrow on this one. The belt line is definitely not typical. Also, the front-opening doors is not typical for 1929 convertible coupe.

 

54 minutes ago, nzcarnerd said:

Not a Packard expert but like many cars of the late 1920s and early 1930s the various Packards were built from mid year to mid year, sort of, so if your car is from early in the run it is one year and if late in the run it is the next year. It all depends on your dating criteria - is it model year or date of first registration or actual date of rolling out of the factory? It has always been and always will be a huge can of worms.  Even with more recent cars it could be argued. For example I have a 1965 Pontiac. There is no doubt it is a 1965 model car - the appearance, specification and the serial number confirm that - but I know it was built in the first week of September 1964. By some criteria I could claim it to be 1964.

This is also not the case. It is neither typical for 1929, nor for 1930. The car is a complete custom.

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Hi West, I wasn’t implying the belt line was factory, just something to my eye that looks uninspired for a custom. Windshield is very interesting, but a bit awkward for my taste. I like one off and unusual cars, it just seems that while a full custom, they didn’t knock it out of the park as far as it’s lines go. I find the most interesting thing about the car is it hasn’t been identified by all the usual sharp eyed experts we so often see nail a car down in less than a few hours. Also interesting is the fact no one has tossed out a builders name...........I wonder if it was a prototype or sample built as a possible low run production custom catalog offering that never got off the ground and ended up as a one off. I was thinking it may be the work of one of the mid west batch builders like Phillips, Centeral, Robbins, or the like.......

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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To me, the hood length, 8-lug wheels, and 4 hood doors say senior series, but the headlights seem to indicate a junior series - could it be a reconstruction or maybe a mash-up, combining parts from more than one original?

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I agree that it's unusual to post a Packard picture and not have it identified quickly.

 

from a trimmer's perspective, the top looks a little funny, too.  It appears to have a rear bow that's wider than the outside door to door measurement, usually a characteristic of roadsters.  Most convertible coupe tops go straight back and don't flare out.

 

Also, the removable pillar right behind the door looks bulky and awkward.

 

The windshield is very interesting, if it was custom built, what a nice piece of workmanship.

 

I'm leaning toward this being a customized car "in the manner of" a period coachmaker, maybe even a cut down coupe....

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Please don't shoot the messenger but there is another possible explanation. Could it have been a coupe that was cut down to make a convertible? I agree with Trimacar that the top looks a bit awkward and there is something strange about the belt line, at least to my eye. Late 1960's early 1970's there was more than one "restorer" who made his living chopping coupes into convertibles. Lack of landau bars is strange.

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10 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

To me, the hood length, 8-lug wheels, and 4 hood doors say senior series, but the headlights seem to indicate a junior series - could it be a reconstruction or maybe a mash-up, combining parts from more than one original?

I'm not sure there is any difference between the Custom Eight and the Eight headlights for 1929, Marty. Perhaps the Eight doesn't have the green (or red) jewel in the back, but from this angle we can't see that.

 

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The body shares a lot of similarities to this well known 1931 845 LeBaron. The way the body line drops to the rear of the door so the top doesn't look to "baby buggyish" when folded is a typical LeBaron design features seen on a lot of 1930-31 Lincolns etc.

 

Hard to tell the length of the car.It is possible that the angle of the photograph could be creating some confusing optical illusions. It is also possible since this is a scan of a photo that the photo somehow got truncated and/or distorted in the process??

 

The 1929 640s and 645s appear visually shorter than the 1930 740/745s or the 1931 840/845s due to their front fender designs. The 1930-31 fender design adds a visual length to the car's appearance.

 

A great looking car and an interesting puzzle.

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6000-1931-packard-845-deluxe-eight-coupe-roadster/

6000-1024x683.jpg

6000_1.jpg

Packard1.thumb.jpg.1932378210b2a76fee387a338e9e2359.jpg

Edited by motoringicons (see edit history)
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This is very interesting.

zipdang, is there no one in your area who remembers this unique car?

That may be the best avenue for investigation if the crew here can not identify the car.

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Reviewing my 1970 CCCA Directory:


3 possibilities.  No body makers listed, but perhaps the last names will jog the original posters memory.    

 

Jack W Eichelberger                                                    

Dayton, OH

1929 Packard, 8, 645, conv coupe. 

 

WIlliam Heil

Cincinnati, OH

1929 Packard, 8, 633, conv coupe.   

 

Brad Hindall

Ada, OH

1929 Packard (no body type listed) 

 

These are the only 3 cars from Ohio in the 1970 CCCA directory that could fit the subject car.     

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by K8096 (see edit history)
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I'm of two minds, one the windshield is very radical for a 1929 car, even a full custom, on the other hand I can't imagine the amount of work required to conjure this up from a standard body of any type.

 

Assuming it is real, it is very attractive for that early of a car.

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I'm amazed (and dare I say pleased?) at the puzzle I seem to have presented. I'm afraid I've posted everything I know about the car. The "W.E.Handley" on the envelope and on the back of the photo is the only name I have associated with it. My scan is an accurate rendition of the photo, so no distortion of note. I sure wish I had asked Dad more questions about this car. I was only about 7-8 years old at the time with just a budding interest in unusual cars.

 

I do remember (as seen in the background) that we were having a garage sale and perhaps the folks in the photo were there for that and ended up having the husband/father take the picture, only later to send a copy to my Dad as a thank you. I did a google search of the address on the envelope and it is a very modest house - not what I would have thought for the owner of this car.

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In regard to the "modest house" comment, most of the people who collected them in the 1950s and 1960s ... even up to the very early 1970s, were very modest middle-income collectors, and the cars were not really considered works of art like they are today. Many of them were bought for hundreds of dollars and even the absolute best restorations back then would probably not score well if judged today.

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West you are 100% correct.    Back in the 60s I can think of a slightly above average ranch house with J292 sitting in the garage and another a few miles down the road with another Model J (purchased for 10,000 - which was more than the house) and a 540k (purchased for 6500).   All the collectors where middle to upper middle class guys.

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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On 12/5/2017 at 7:04 PM, K8096 said:

Reviewing my 1970 CCCA Directory:


3 possibilities.  No body makers listed, but perhaps the last names will jog the original posters memory.    

 

Jack W Eichelberger                                                    

Dayton, OH

1929 Packard, 8, 645, conv coupe. 

 

WIlliam Heil

Cincinnati, OH

1929 Packard, 8, 633, conv coupe.   

 

Brad Hindall

Ada, OH

1929 Packard (no body type listed) 

 

These are the only 3 cars from Ohio in the 1970 CCCA directory that could fit the subject car.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one in Dayton sounds promising, as it is a 645. The one in Cinci is out, as it is a 633.

Here's information about Jack Eichelberger. I hear his name every time I attend the local theater downtown Dayton.

Jack W. and Sally D. Eichelberger Foundation – 2006 was established by Jack and Sally Eichelberger, longtime Oakwood residents, to enhance the legal profession, the arts and the Greater Dayton community through the awarding of grants. Jack Eichelberger was a well-known Dayton attorney and real estate investor.

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14 minutes ago, alsancle said:

West you are 100% correct.    Back in the 60s I can think of a slightly above average ranch house with J292 sitting in the garage and another a few miles down the rode with another Model J (purchased for 10,000 - more than the house) and a 540k (purchased for 6500).   All the collectors where middle to upper middle class guys.

Reminds me of a solid middle-class collector in a western Minnesota town of 350 who had a fair-to-middling condition 16-car garage (former school bus storage building and shop). Inside was a 1934 Bugatti cabriolet, 1939 Delahaye 135 MS, Cadillac V-16, 1938 BMW 328, 1942 Packard town car, among several other Packards and highly collectible postwar pieces.

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LeBaron for 1929 is starting to look like a good guess.  Notice the round step plate on the passenger side rear fender and the over-sized golf bag door on that side.  Also, the molding along the hood through the door then drops lower on the rear of the car.  The windshield has an unusual rounded corner at the bottom.  All of these things seem to depart from Raymond Dietrich's influence.  Anxiously await additional input from folks familiar with 1929 Packards!

 

Tom Hartz

Nashville, Indiana 

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After asking my siblings, I have some more information:

 

From little sister:  No reply yet, but I'll bet she was too young to have any more information.

 

From little brother:  To the best of my knowledge it was actually a Volkswagen kit car with a fuel injected corvette drive train, hydraulic lift/lowrider kit, in-dash espresso machine, and mountain fresh scented lime green fuzzy dice. (A typical little brother response!)

 

From big sister:  We had it because relatives of Dad up in northern Ohio were trying to sell it but were having no luck.  They gave it to Dad to drive around for a while.  It was a 1929.  Silver, with red wheels and accents.

 

From big brother:  I remember:  1929 Packard. One of Dad's relatives owned it and Dad had it to drive and get visibility to try and sell itIt did sell We did go to one car event out in the country somewhere. The rumble seat was NOT restored so the next owner could do something on the car. Uncle? brought it down from Akron/Canton on a flat bed and Dad and I met him at a gas station on I-71 just north of Columbus and drove it in. I recall we had a fuel pump issue while we had it.

 

There are a couple members of that branch of the family nearby, so when I get a chance, I'll ask them.

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2 hours ago, Dave Fields said:

Ohio tags. Someone has old CCCA rosters. I would look there. Must be something in the AACA library.

 

K8096 has already done this. Just look a few posts ahead of yours. Should be the best avenue to determine who/what/where.

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Mr Zipdang, 

 

If you could give me your dad's last name it could help.   I could look up that name in late 1960's - early 1970's CCCA directories and see if there's a match.  Your brother said it was a family member of his who had the car - perhaps that family member had the same last name.    I showed your photo this evening to an old time CCCA guy who knew all the cars in the Akron area in the 1960's and he didn't remember it, nor did he have any pictures of it in his scrap book which is filled with 1950's & 60's photos from car shows.  

 

To the rest of the gang:  As I know it, there are 3 1931 Packard LeBaron conv coupes in existence.  The 1931 model seems to have a very similar door hinge arrangement, but the windshield differs significantly.  It is higher and the base is different.  Are there any 1930 model Packard LeBaron conv coupes known to exist?   Perhaps the subject car is a one off and no other copies were ordered, and then LeBaron resurrected the design and updated it for 1931.                   

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