Grant Six Firewall Tag

[Danoboy]

I found this firewall tag in a briefcase I purchased from a thrift store. I have researched the company hoping to find something similar, didn't have much luck.

If anyone has any knowledge other than whats available  on the Grant Motor Corp. page, I would be greatly appreciative.

[TerryB]

That was quite a bonus to find it in the suitcase.  Wish I was that lucky!  

Terry

[old car fan]

..We  have a Grant but I believe  this tag is a  later Ours is a 14,if memory is correct Grant started in Detroit , then Findlay ohio,!916 may have been the first year of the 6 in Cleveland.If you would like to sell it ,let me know,we know of most the Grant owners,but not for our car.Good find anyway,more tags than cars.The Findley historical museum have several cars and a truck,worth a look.

Edited November 10, 2017 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Danoboy]

I really appreciate it!! I think I remember reading that there were not too many of them that survived. I was hoping to find a way to put this piece of History into the right hands. I am so happy to be the one to have found it. I have a passion for preserving History. I hate to think of someone else finding it and disregarding it for lack of interest. Let me know what I need to do as far as getting it into the right collection.

[46 woodie]

Dan, the information I can find lists the Grant Motor Car Co. from 1913 to 1922. It was first located in Detroit from 1913 till 1916 and moved to Findlay, Ohio in 1916 and lasted until 1922. Early engines were 4 cylinder and in 1915 came out with a 44 HP six and in 1920 introduced a smaller six cylinder 20 HP motor. Not much else is listed about the Grant. Nice find. I don't know if any Grant Motor Cars have survived but some collector will be interested in your tag.

[gwells]

A Google search finds three Grants surviving (at least). One that was for sale on the Hemmings site and one that seems to be in the Fountainhead Museum in Alaska.

[TexRiv_63]

Here is another Grant tag marked with Cleveland, OH.

[Danoboy]

Does anyone know about the Fall's Motors Corporation? The research I have done reveals that a 1917 Grant Six Touring car had a Fall's Motors Corp. engine in it. Here is what the person said about the car... My Dad owned a 1917 Grant 6 touring motor car. He says the motor in it was a Falls motor, made in Sheboygan Falls. He eventually sold the car to someone in Ohio for his private collection. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

 

Daniel

[old car fan]

We have a 14 grant, several in the Columbus area of ohio,3 or 4 ind Findlay ohio.if you do a search for Grants,ours will show up,More tha 3 maybe .There were at least 10 at the festival in findley ohio several years ago.One sold at Hershey about 10 years ago,it came from Canada,It was a falls 6.it is in Findley Ohio now.

Edited November 12, 2017 by old car fan (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

The HCCA roster lists only pre-1916 cars.  It shows a Werner Rase in Columbus, Ohio, having three 1914 Grants, and a Dennis Long in Beavercreek, Ohio, as having one.  Either of these people might have a later Grant that wouldn't appear in the roster.

 

Gil Fitzhugh

[old car fan]

I will let you know,going to find out about the Falls 6,I have no interest in this unless it goes on a wall.,Our car is a 4 .If someone wants to put on a wall,i want it.i will find a new happy owner,Danial, I will keep you posted

[Bud Tierney]

(Sigh) It never fails...

Falls has (had?) an interesting history---beginning as a woodworking machinery co, moving into farm type engine (1 cyl  horizontal hopper cooled flywheel  types, not sure correct terminology) and into 4, 6 and a few 8s  for automobiles...don't know if any got into industrial or commercial uses......

I was just looking at one of my old posts on Falls, but don't remember whether here or on smokstak..

Search Falls in both, or Google the Motor Co, will probably come up....could be under handles clueless or noncompos, used before I reverted to name...

[lump]

My parents had a 1921 Grant Six roadster when I was a kid. I have a photo of the day they drug it out of a barn in Indiana

 

They did some research and wrote a story for the AACA magazine about the Grant Motor Car company. I'll see if I can find a copy of that in my files. In the meantime, here is a photo of some NOS Grant memorabilia that my parents acquired from a gentleman who had worked for the Grant company. They met him at an AACA tour in the early 1960's, when he came up and introduced himself. 

[lump]

By the way, I seem to recall that some Grant cars used Falls brand engines, and at other times Walker engines were installed. I understand that neither engine was considered to be of superior quality. 

 

Danoboy, would you like to sell that firewall tag? It might look pretty good in my little collection. 

 

Cheers! 

[Bud Tierney]

As lump says above, Grant owned Walker engine until the end (acquired H J Walker Mfg Co March 1920, sold just before Receivership 1923 per Std Cat)...

However, my old parts catalogs are all over the place, listing  Walker engines being used as early as  1915...these old parts catalogs often do not agree on models/years or engines, but the Grant listings are particularly  contradictory re' Falls or Walker engines  in specific models/years...(only Falls or Walkers are listed)...

Never researched Walker; name shows up rarely (30 McCord catalog  lists a Walker 6C OHV 31/16 x 41/2, per that catalog used in Grant 20-23 and Kelsey1923;  but under Grant lists an unidentified Walker 6cyl 3x41/2 and the 6C...it would've been unusual if falls and Walker both didn't  also sell  engines to other makers who claimed as "own" or who do not so list in my catalogs

That 1930 catalog only lists two Falls engines, an unidentified  31/8x41/4  6cyl 1917-22 and their T-8000, also  31/8x 41/4 1923=25, but apparently a different engine or a major upgrade taking different gaskets...I believe at least four or five different bore Falls are listed in catalogs, as well as a Falls 4cyl, for Grant...

For researchers, there was another Grant, the Grant Six, built 1912-13 in Cleveland, unrelated and before our Grant, but easily confused if dates not accurate...

[Bud Tierney]

Just noticed an interesting little bit about Falls...

King Products June 1932  catalog (Engine parts, front end bushings) doesn't list any Falls engines..

However, their  March 1936 Master Catalog does, losting a few 4 and 6s under piston assembly, one model under valves, and seven *two types) under bearings...

For the T, TT, V and early K models it lists a replacement insert rod bearing, to replace the old poured rods, NLA through that company, at least...

My understanding is that while offering replacement  rods using inserts to replace older poured rods  was not rare, it was uncommon, generally limited to high-production number engines......

[Ivan Saxton]

In 1960 we saw a Grant Six in Whiteside Rdbetween Officer and Beaconsfield , here in Victoria.  It was pretty complete as it had been parked under some pine trees.   The owner was not prepared to relinquish it at then-current value.   Five years later it was owned by a member of the Vintage Drivers' Club, after the previous had been inspired to improve its value by trashing what had survived of the bodywork,  which made authentic restoration pretty much impossible.  I used to see Neil Burns  at VDC meetings,  And I know he had other early cars including a small 8 cyl 8-90 Auburn,   a very pretty car which was in good driveable condition; except that it had coughed a connecting rod through the side of the crankcase.  ( I surmise that model of Auburn may have had some pre-disposition to the same malady, because I have here a similar damaged engine from rusty remnants;  except that this one had created the same excitement twice from different cylinders:  But the first exit hole had been most expertly repaired by brazing.)   I would say that the engine of the Grant Six was very likely made by Falls; because it was an exposed pushrod OHV , very similar to the design of a Chev four,   (plus 50%.)  There was a man from Western Australia about the same time, who had basic remains of a  much earlier Grant Four.   His name was Alex Selley, and he did not disturb the Grant Six because there was no similarity  to his project.   ( Alex told me of an Hispano Suiza in Alice Springs,  which had been "modernised" with a van body and a post-war P 6 Perkins diesel engine and a van body.   Stuart Middlehurst used it for some years with a much better Perkins 6-354 engine of more suitable performance and a quite nice new body frame for which Arthur Lang expertly shaped and fitted   panels in 30 hours.     I understand that this special short chassis Hispano Suiza, which originally was owned by Earl Howe.  This would have been similar to the short wheelbase 8 litre Hispano which beat the Stutz Black Hawk speedster in the Match race at Indianapolis.   My three Stutz .  Geoff Ringrose' engine like my earliest developed a knock on a weekend run in Sydney.   It had broken the centre main bearing cap which had a single strengthening rib.  My next engine about 5 weeks later casting date had TWO  ribs instead of one  .  My prototype 1928 DV32 engine , # DV30004, ( edited typing error.  Actual casting date of engine in usual place high in centre of left side is "6 27 8", which signifies 27th of May, 1928.    Also the word "SPECIAL" is cast, upside down,  several inches below the casting date.) has all main bearing caps probably 2-3 times stronger than standard..   I do not think the special 8 litre short wheelbase Hispano complied strictly with the original wager agreement expectation between Fred Moscovics and M. Weymann  .       You need to refer to lines 9 to 14 on page 261 of John Bentley's 1957book  "Great American Automobiles",  of which there are usually quite a few good affordable copies available on internet second-hand book dealers' listings.  Here you have an important bit of history that is a natural divergence form the thread.  It means that the first twin OHC 4 valve /cylinder DV32 Stutzes  were probably running around Indianapolis as "sleepers" at a .the same time as the first prototype J model Duesenberg  .  At it is likely that Frank Lockhart  was involved with the concept.  And the prototype DV32 had  reliable alloy steel con-rods which would not fail like Lynite rods did.          I apologise if anyone disapproves that I have run off  thread topic.  But it is a bit of automotive forensic archaeology,  and it is important to understand what you see.                                                      

Edited November 18, 2017 by Ivan Saxton
corrected typing error "1918"to 1928. (see edit history)