1966 Impala convertible, help with identification

[Matt Harwood]

So this attractive 1966 Impala convertible came in this morning. It's not a high-dollar car and I won't be representing it as anything other than a fun top-down driver, but I do run all the numbers just the same. I've gotten pretty good at spotting fakes and tricks and I know where to look for all the little stuff that makes these cars what they are. I also know that there's an army of "experts" out there who are going to bury me in E-mails if I make a mistake. That's really annoying so I try to avoid it.

 

Anyway, the VIN starts with 16467 and the cowl tag corroborates it, which means it's a standard 1966 Impala convertible, NOT an SS. No problem there. However, it's wearing all the right SS badges in all the right places. That's easy enough to fake, so I figured that someone threw them on at some point in its past. That happens a lot and I don't really worry about it.

 

Looking a little closer, however, the car has buckets and a console, plus console gauges which are all fully operational, including a vacuum gauge. Again, maybe they were added when it was restored. I suppose that could happen, although it's less common to add gauges in addition to the console and buckets.

 

But the kicker is that the cowl tag, which sure looks original and correct to me, says it has trim code 813, which is black buckets and a console and available only in an SS. Look at the photo of the cowl tag--it doesn't look like a repro and has the right rivets and signs of age that say to me it's original and hasn't been off the car. Yes, you can fake it, but the price tag on this car means that it doesn't make sense to fake it so thoroughly. If you're going to fake it, make it a real SS or a 427 or something; you don't just fake the interior code. In my opinion, an intentional forgery is highly unlikely on a car like this. It also has power windows and factory A/C, which are coded on the cowl tag, also leading me to believe that it's original. Finally, it appears that the console is coded onto the cowl tag, shown as a G in the second group of accessory codes (although sources vary on how accurate any lists of these option codes might be).

 

The engine is an 327/275 with a Holley carburetor (which is correctly coded as HCH on the stamping pad). I believe it to be the car's original engine, although in 1966 cars with less than 300 horsepower did not have partial VINs on the blocks, so there's no way to be certain.This is a late production 1966 model, as it has a TH400 instead of a PowerGlide. Wonder if that would make any difference at all?

 

So what is it? A regular Impala with a special-order SS interior? An SS with a mixed up VIN? I don't really want to represent it as an SS because those "experts" are going to point at the VIN, but if I don't advertise it as an SS, those same experts will whine about the buckets and console. I've checked all the resources I know and none are conclusive other than a 16467 is not an SS, but code 813 interior and a console appear to be exclusive to the SS models. Anyone familiar enough with these cars to say that maybe the factory would have built something like this as a special order? I don't feel like dealing with the know-it-alls unless I have an explanation.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[nzcarnerd]

Can't help with a definitive answer but just curious on the date code -  11C - third week of November? 1965? Body number 2214 maybe earlier than later?? Maybe I have read it wrong?

[Matt Harwood]

I puzzled over that, too. I expected it to have a PowerGlide and then did some reading and found that the TH400 replaced the PowerGlide sometime during 1966 production. It doesn't appear to be a post-assembly line swap since the selector gate on the console has three forward gears, not two. Again, if someone made the change, they did it the way the factory would have and I just don't see anyone trying to fake a $25,000 car. Production date of late November appears correct, but I can't find a date of when the TH400 went into the cars. Perhaps "late production" is the wrong way to say it, maybe I should say "after they changed to the TH400."

[Guest]

It's just too bad GM did not include a DSO code on the trim tag like Ford did. It has helped to explain many anomalies on the Mustangs. When the experts say "This year/model never came with XYZ option", the DSO code shows 4 extra digits to describe (unfortunately not always in detail) a promotional car, dealer special order, executive order, etc. 

These same type of orders certainly happened at GM and Chrysler so I say " never say never".

I agree this car is not of the rarity or in the price range to build a fake, so who could possibly get hurt by purchasing it?

If I had to guess, and of course that's all I'm offering, I would say you have a classic example of a GM executive order car.

[joe_padavano]

Shiftworks sells kits to convert factory GM two speed shifters into three speed shifters, including the PRNDSL lens and the detent plate on the shifter mechanism.  It's a very easy conversion. The more telling change would be the frame.  Does the crossmember look like it was always bolted in the TH400 position, or is there evidence that it might have been in the PG position at one time.  Usually you can see grooves or scrapes from the bolt heads or nuts in the other location.

 

Can't help with the trim code, however.

[Pomeroy41144]

Yes, that is what I learned in the old car game:  Never say "never" and never say "always" when talking about production and options.  

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[misterc9]

Hydramatic 400  became available in full size Chevys in 1965  but only on the Mark IV big block V8 . Small block V8,sixes and 409s could get Powerglide but not Hydramatic. Starting in 1968 Hydramatic  was optional on any V8 . Some big blocks also used Powerglide.

[joe_padavano]

39 minutes ago, Pomeroy41144 said:

Yes, that is what I learned in the old car game:  Never say "never" and never say "always" when talking about production and options.  

 

 

I have to disagree with this.  The "anything was possible to special order" story is nearly always used to justify an overpriced one-of-none car.  GM did not randomly install parts and ship undocumented cars to the general public.  Sure, custom stuff got built for magazines and the like, but cars that were delivered to paying customers with a warranty needed to have full documentation for the dealer to be able to service them.  Mid-year equipment changes did take place, but these were fully documented in service bulletins and the like.

 

To Matt: what's the two letter code on the tag on the side of the TH400?  That's your best bet to tell where it came from.  It sounds like this car has been assembled from parts. The fact that the cost of doing that likely exceeded the value of the car never stopped me from doing something similar.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

  GM did not randomly install parts and ship undocumented cars to the general public. 

I agree with this statement completely and your reasoning behind it. But it doesn't address the anomaly of executive ordered cars which didn't have parts/options randomly installed but rather were specifically ordered by executives with the juice to get precisely what they desired in their cars.

 

 The fact that the cost of doing that likely exceeded the value of the car never stopped me from doing something similar. 

Of course I completely agree with this statement as well. 

 

[Pomeroy41144]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

 

  GM did not randomly install parts and ship undocumented cars to the general public. 

.

 

 

I never made this assertion.

 

Really interested in this thread.  Very interesting.   

 

Thanks for the feed back.  Take care Joe.  

[capngrog]

2 hours ago, GregLaR said:

 

If I had to guess, and of course that's all I'm offering, I would say you have a classic example of a GM executive order car.

 

I had forgotten all about GM (and other manufacturers) executive car programs.  When I was in high school, a friend's Dad, who was some sort of upper level GM executive, would get a new car every year.  As I recall, my friend was very proud of the fact that his Dad's cars had option combinations that were not available to the general public.  I'm far from an expert, but I would agree with Greg that the subject car is just possibly an ex-GM executive order car.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, Mark I said:

Hi Matt,

 

Wouldn't call myself an expert, but been round 66's a long time. Body build date 11C is 3rd week of Nov. 65. BA is Doraville GA built.

I've never seen a 66 small block stock/factory with a TH400. There were three carbs possible on the 275 hp 327, Holley was one.

Another puzzle about the cowl tag is that it doesn't have C60 on the accessory line. That should have been there for Fisher Body to

build with AC, so that also may have been added. As far as the buckets, I'd take a look around under the carpet or under the car.

The inside seat bracket would have been added if it wasn't an SS. 66 is an easy car to change from Impala to Impala SS.

All the trim is the same except for the SS scripts and emblems. I'd say someone made the car they wanted. Nice looking too.

My favorite 66 color combo. 

 

Mark

 

Thanks for the extra information. I'll have it on the lift on Monday and will dig around underneath. The A/C and power windows appear to be how the car was ordered (Group 1 codes D = power top, X = power windows, Group 2 code E = air conditioning).

 

But I'm still puzzled by the interior code 813, which is black buckets and every source I can find says they are SS only. Then there's the code G in the Group 2 accessory codes, which is for a console. Whatever else has been altered, this is still a base Impala with an SS interior from the factory. How did that happen?

[George Smolinski]

Is it possible that this car & a wrecked or rusty SS were put together to form what you have now? Then someone decided to buy a made up Trim Tag so it looks legit.

[Guest tar6569]

Man, that's a really bad attempt at a repro tag!

 

Plain impala body style but shows 813 interior for black bucket seats (SS only)

Doraville, GA, which should not show accessory codes on the tag

at least 2 of the codes were not used on fullsize Chevrolets

body number is way to high for a convertible from Doraville.

 

What's the vin?  Curious if that lines up at all with the build date on the tag.