ArticiferTom Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Looking to remove two head studs and switch locations they where installed wrong years ago . The one is long to accept horn bracket , see pic . It should be up one stud forward . Do not want to remove head . Maybe double nut to extract ? And is stud in blind hole or to coolant chamber ? This is a Plymouth 4cylinder '31 Silver dome engine . Thank in Advance .TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 (edited) When I tore down my 32 DL flathead six at my engine rebuilders, they had a roller stud extractor that looked like a socket, but had an internal three roller setup that gripped the stud and took it right out with a socket wrench. I'm no expert, but my only concern would be the length of your studs above the head. I removed my head and then removed the studs, so there was a lot more stud to get a grip on. The two nut solution would have the same problem - can you even get two nuts on the stud, -plus you're putting a lot of force on the very top of the stud. Even after I removed the head, it took a lot of force to get the studs off. Despite my very careful efforts, one stud broke off in the block and had to be removed by the rebuilder. The short length of stud protruding above the head, plus the corrosion holding the stud to the head makes for a perilous adventure for you. Snap off the stud and you're pulling the head. I don't remember which studs went into the water jacket, but there were a lot of them - and they were all badly rusted on the bottom threads. Some lost a good half inch of stud. Edited October 23, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I agree with Taylormade about using the 3 roller extractor socket, which should be available @NAPA, or "online". But I would remove the nut and soak the stud with PB Blaster for a couple of days first, to try and break the "seal" of rusty stud against the head. Worst case scenario is that you will have to pull the head, which will give you the opportunity to de-carbon the chambers and replace all the other old studs. Not a big job on a flat head............. Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 Thanks ,That is kind of what I was thinking , they could go in block . The only advantage I have is fact they where out back in early 90's for rebuild . Yes , would have to use thin nuts . I'll check with my mechanic ,sure he has one of those tool . This is getting to be to much to just relocate the horn and have the studs proper . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Sometimes they still won't come out soaking with Kroil/ PB blaster, acetone and trans oil or even Ballistol and some heat added. Head already off. Just had an engine I tied for four months soaking all the studs and using the Snap-On threaded type stud remover and the three jaw type...using some heat and cold. Nine studs ended up breaking... I broke three the machine shop broke six. 7/16" studs. Total 33 studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Article: http://www.secondchancegarage.com/how-to/studs.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I like and use the Snap-On holder collet type tool. This tool does not damage the studs unless they break trying to carefully remove frozen ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Try it! Use a short spanner. You might even be able to find (or work out) the yield torque of a grade 2 bolt in torsion and don't exceed that. If it is too tight, you have a much better chance of getting it out if you remove the head and grip the stud as close to the block as possible. Sometimes light taps on the end of the stud can help too (not enough to mushroom it though!). The tapping sets up a vibration that helps. I suppose an impact driver would achieve the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trini Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Removing head bolts from flathead engines is tricky especially if they are in there for a long time. Some of the bolts go through the water jacket and weakens close to the block. Trying to remove the studs from top of the head is a bad idea at best because the length of the studs lends itself to more twisting and easier to break. To do it right and safely as much as possible it is better to remove the head. If the bolts were in fairly recently you probably hit the jackpot by using the Snapon stud remover. Must be held close to the block. If the studs look like trouble at the roots, or breaks, square the top of the broken end, center punch mark as close as possible and start drilling with slow speed using a 3/16 bit right down past bottom and continue to upsize drill. Now you will be able to direct the flame in the drilled hole on the side wall of the drilled bolt. Do not over heat. Let it cool and try an extractor. If no luck, use a slightly larger drill and renew the hole. Use a new 24 T hacksaw blade and grind the back about 2 1/2 inches long and wide enough to fit the hole and cut along the side being careful not to cut the thread of the block. Cut 2 spots about 3/16 apart from each other. Use a suitable punch, bump the side of the narrow piece between the 2 cuts towards the inside . The idea is to shape the broken stud as a pipe and weaken it . If you cannot hold the drill straight (I wear glasses and can never hold the drill straight) try using a magnetic drill . This job needs patience. See if some of our club members will lend you some and start off by reciting the Lords prayer backwards . You never know. When installing head bolts a healthy dose of copper slip grease works wonders and also on exhaust components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 trini is right but use a left hand drill bit. All the vibration and torque of the drill bit will also help remove the stud. https://www.harborfreight.com/left-hand-drill-bit-set-13-pc-61686.html https://www.amazon.ca/Titan-16013-Screw-Extractor-10-Piece/dp/B00265M8LQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 Thanks again , I have the left hand bits and extractors . Decided to put job off until Winter break . first will just see how it looks with studs at current length and horn bracket . Have not looked to borrow collet remover , but does look like the promising tool for the job . Will advise on out come . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Be glad it's a cast iron head and not $#@^& aluminum. I've been working on this one for a while. I went as far as to braze on a nut but just snapped the stud off flush with the head. My problem is there is no way to get the head off until you remove the corrosion bond to the studs. I've heard talk of a thin walled hole saw that would go around the stud but have yet to find evidence of such a thing. I wish I could offer more advice but everything I tried is listed above. The brazing or welding a nut may work if the extractor won't grip. If you snap a stud flush with the head or block, placing a nut on top of the broken stud and welding down through the nut threads often works. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Wurke Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 On 11/10/2017 at 10:58 PM, Stude Light said: Be glad it's a cast iron head and not $#@^& aluminum. I've been working on this one for a while. I went as far as to braze on a nut but just snapped the stud off flush with the head. My problem is there is no way to get the head off until you remove the corrosion bond to the studs. I've heard talk of a thin walled hole saw that would go around the stud but have yet to find evidence of such a thing. I wish I could offer more advice but everything I tried is listed above. The brazing or welding a nut may work if the extractor won't grip. If you snap a stud flush with the head or block, placing a nut on top of the broken stud and welding down through the nut threads often works. Good luck. The thin walled hole saw you refer to was made especially for the mid 30's flathead V-8 Fords with aluminum heads. Chances of finding one are slim. Those Ford heads also caused the origin of Liquid Wrench. GOOD LUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trini Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Removing broken head bolts from aluminum heads is more difficult than on a cast iron block. I would use the same method of drilling the bolt in the center and keep upsizing until close as possible to the edge of the stud. Or use a drill the size of the bolt. If you go a little off side is not a problem. Use a #2 brazing tip and warm the stud by pointing the flame into the hole using a small flame in a circular manner heating the inside of the "barrel". Use the heat and cool process a few times. It will loosen up the aluminium crud. Use this method if the hex is broken off. What you may also do is to drill through the hex right through the bolt. The next step will be to take out the pieces from the block. There is no magic wand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broker-len Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) Tom-----I have a restored PA got all new head bolts from a supplier and the same length do not know what it was from the factory my horn is like yours but on next bolt up a few threads short the horn bolt is no longer it torqued up just fine maybe the horn head bolt is not all the way in block if you pull any head bolts out make sure to put good sealant the bolts go into the water jacket buy the way the horn hangs down Edited November 14, 2017 by broker-len (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Wurke Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 6:45 AM, ArticiferTom said: Looking to remove two head studs and switch locations they where installed wrong years ago . The one is long to accept horn bracket , see pic . It should be up one stud forward . Do not want to remove head . Maybe double nut to extract ? And is stud in blind hole or to coolant chamber ? This is a Plymouth 4cylinder '31 Silver dome engine . Thank in Advance .TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Wurke Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 If it were me I would put a tall nut on the next stud up and use a capscrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Stude light....I cracked a light six head trying to remove it (cuss word!)...and I spent a good bit of time slowly working it off......as per the PA, if it works I wouldn't mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 Yes , on horn direction . Seen a car on site with it in correct place and with the longer stud , which mine has just was put back in wrong spot during rebuild in 90's, I guess . Any one ever pull the timing straight blade driver plug . Looks like a frozen one too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Tom, you do realize YOU will be the only one that knows it should be on the other stud? Get your truck driving and wait until you HAVE to remove the head. Don't take the chance of causing yourself problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Hey ! good to hear from you Doug . I know I was only thinking of because I will be changing anti freeze and want to silver paint the head as you said color is . One of those little get it back original projects . I had a Carter brass bowl rebuild to put back on it and get the Zenith with extension tube off. All hose and clamps and screws and nuts visible are proper . And the truck is driving good this year , put close to five hundred mile on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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