alsancle Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 So the Duesenberg Concept car is for sale. I always thought it was pretty cool when I saw it at the ACD museum. It is a real coachbuilt car from the 1960s. Price is high I guess but when you figure what some dream cars go for maybe not completely insane. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/duesenberg/model-d/2017767.html 1966 Duesenberg Concept Car, the last real Duesenberg. Only one prototype produced. Massive size and ultimate luxury, every option imagineable. This Duesenberg was created under the auspices of Augie Duesenberg and designed by Virgil Exner and built by Ghia. The provenance is excellent from day one. First time in over 50 years that this car is publicly being offered for sale. It was on display at the Auburn Cord Duesenberg museum for 30 years until it went to the Bortz Auto Collection where it has been for the past 15 years. The car is still almost completely original and check out the video to see how nice it drives down the road. MUSEUM QUALITY WITH LESS THAN 500 MILES ON THE ODOMETER! A once in a lifetime opportunity to own a piece of automotive history with complete provenance. The luxury and amenities are hard to imagine until you actually drive this car. True Duesenberg luxury and comfort whether driving at highways speeds or a relaxing Sunday drive to the country club. Excellent show piece for any serious car collection or museum. Serious inquiries can call Joe Bortz 847-668-2004 cell 10:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. CST Price: $475,000 obo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Sorry, I'm spending my money on the CORD Concept project with the front fenders that are too big, looks a lot nicer than the lump above. Bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said: Sorry, I'm spending my money on the CORD Concept project with the front fenders that are too big, looks a lot nicer than the lump above. Bob I think I'll just spend my money on my humble collection of 2 Fiats and a 2CV. At least they're odd from the factory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 When you consider the absolute drop dead beauty of the Duesenberg, this thing is nothing but a mess, and an insult to the greatest name in American automobile manufacturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 I completely disagree. I like it. Compare it to other 1960s sedans, not something from 40 years earlier. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Sorry but to me it looks like what happened when an Edsell and a Riveria went into the barn and turned out the lights. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J3Studio Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) This car was in so many of the automotive styling books of my youth—what existed in the mid to late 1970s. For that reason alone, I hope it finds a good home. The problem, I think, when we look at it with greater than 50 years separation; it is certainly not as amazing as a (my and my wife's personal predilection) Murphy-bodied disappearing top roadster, circa 1930. I think we need to be a little bit more accepting; Exner loved those twenties and thirties cars but was trying to design something that would sell 35 year later. Did he fail? Obviously—but he did try ... Edited October 19, 2017 by j3studio (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Not a styling winner, NEVER. WHO would drive it, doesn't have a right side mirror. The BEST OFFER tells a lot. Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 why wouldn't you just buy a real one for less money? https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/duesenberg/a/1990976.html?refer=blog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Maybe it needs some photoshop work, could we see it in AACA show field form with all the doors, hood, and trunk lid open? Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Looks a lot like the Stutz Blackhawk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Please explain how it was built "under the auspices of Augie Duesenberg" beings as Augie Duesenberg passed away in 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 I guess I stand alone. I like it. I also like the first couple years of the Stutz Blackhawk and also Glenn Pray's 8/10 Cord. But I like them in the context of the period they were built - the 1960s/70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said: Looks a lot like the Stutz Blackhawk. Its not a coincidence: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?53951-Orphan-of-the-Day-08-24-1966-Duesenberg-1980-Stutz-IV-Porte Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 35 minutes ago, alsancle said: I guess I stand alone. I like it. I also like the first couple years of the Stutz Blackhawk and also Glenn Pray's 8/10 Cord. But I like them in the context of the period they were built - the 1960s/70s. Nope. I like it too. As you mentioned earlier, no sense in comparing to something built 50 years earlier. Much, much more stylish than a Big Three (Four?) sedan of the same time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Thanks West! You are good company on a lonely island. I think the key thing to remember is the era and the key thing to forget is the price. The latter is perhaps coloring some opinion and former is only fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, alsancle said: I think the key thing to remember is the era and the key thing to forget is the price. The latter is perhaps coloring some opinion and former is only fair. Exactly ... and profound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 11 hours ago, Terry Bond said: Sorry but to me it looks like what happened when an Edsell and a Riveria went into the barn and turned out the lights. Terry, that is about the funniest comment I have ever heard you make!! Brilliant as well.... We are going to have to have an intervention with Mr. Peterson as I think he has gone off the deep end. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Interesting car, I think being truly coach built adds credibility. I also think the challenge for this car, was to build something contemporary for the time yet special enough to carry the name. Not a Zimmer, for example. That said, I think the Engle designed 61 -63 lincoln still sets the bar for a truly "continental" (see how I did that? )design for the era. A cleaner, more elegant sedan up or down a decade, to me would be tough to name. Also translated well into an open car. That said, I would think that this does well though, truly one of a kind. Edited October 19, 2017 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 hours ago, West Peterson said: Exactly ... and profound. Two guys on the island, anybody else swimming ashore? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Does anyone have any context as to why this didn't see production? Is the comment styling was considered a failure correct. Or was it really the astronomical cost of bringing a premium car to market. When iocooca sponsored the mark iii, it had a lot of nods to the past and they sold very well. It's a balance to be sure. I am wading around the beach on the island on this one... Edited October 19, 2017 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I wanted to be fair, and comment on the car in context..................... BARF! Enjoy your time on the island boys...........? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, edinmass said: I wanted to be fair, and comment on the car in context..................... BARF! Enjoy your time on the island boys...........? So Ed, name a coachbuilt car in the 60s that you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Absolutely NONE! It's pre war or walking shoes for me. Ok, I admit it..........I'm a car snob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) I saw that car at the ACD Museum in 1978. I completed the color change to maroon on my '64 Riviera in 1981. That car was the inspiration. In 1973 I had painted a brown Riviera maroon, as well, so I had a precedent. Both Sr. and Jr. were involved in the Revival cars and that was inspired by an article they did for a men's magazine, I forget which one. Sr. Exner was responsible for Chrysler's Forward Look, Jr. finished up the design at Ford with the '70 Thunderbirds. Take a look. They are surely not cars to be taken on design alone. The "context", as mentioned, would be the United States from 1965 to 1980. Bold styling statements with a connection to the pinnacle of 40 years before. Those cars have the glitz and power of a wealthy "look at ME" country. Most of the comments above reflect the "Chicken Little" country we live in today, scared the world is going to end because a CEL came on or your car wouldn't hurl itself between you and danger like some Asimovian automaton. Today the Rat Pack shows up in Prii, vapors without a Butterfly Effect. Today "I" am actually considering a Cadillac on a Chevy Impala platform, Oh, shades of 1993! I like that Italian cobbled old Imperial with Riviera fenders. BUT, I know who did it, why they did it, and what they influenced after. I was there. And as I walked around Hershey a couple weeks ago, I had an eye out for a '70's Stutziac. I almost bought that burned one that keeps surfacing on the net as the car from hell. I was a keystroke away. If the Stutz doesn't materialize I am always on the watch for one of these, that Jr. did. The 1970 Judkins coupe. Edited October 19, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Stutz you say? https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/1972-stutz-blackhawk-humpback/6346981237.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I saw that car come up a couple of days ago. For many of the reasons people above didn't like the topic Duesenberg, I think I can do better. If it was within 400 miles I would have checked it out. The ad was a little scary. "Restored" wouldn't be the one I want unless I did it myself. The wheels and landau irons raise questions. And I have followed those cars since new. The hump back may have been an original personal request, but I am not familiar with the car and not too my, obviously questionable, taste. The culture that spawned those cars is pretty much dead. Like the 1930's classics sitting in the back row of second rate car lots in the 1950's, I will get one unrestored for under $25000, Or find one I restore myself and not have to suffer someone's handiwork. I will be making a run into the City today to pick up a 4'X4' sheet of 18 gauge cold rolled, there is a new MIG welder in the garage, and a fresh bottle of gas. I may have to re-interpret the concept. On the $475,000 car, only the wizardry of auction house money magic can make that happen. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I am with edinmass on these cars in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarrsCars Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 10/19/2017 at 9:04 AM, alsancle said: Two guys on the island, anybody else swimming ashore? I'll put on my water wings and give it a go... I saw this car a few times as a car-obsessed kid growing up in Hoosier-wood. It stuck with me so deeply, something about what could have been and what once was that really spoke to me even then. That museum is a sacred place, and in fact, this car and a clay model upstairs are the two things I always remember most about the museum. I do rather enjoy oddball cars such as the Stutz mentioned earlier. Maybe I'm simply enamored with these cars because they are hometown heroes, but whatever the case, I am happy it exists and more so, that there's a chance somebody will soon have this thing on a show field, out concours tour, or heck, maybe even use it for a grocery store run! I am ALL IN on this one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 Ok. Now there are three guys on the island. The Skipper, Gilligan, Mr Owl? We need to get Mary Ann and Ginger over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarrsCars Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 minute ago, alsancle said: Ok. Now there are three guys on the island. The Skipper, Gilligan, Mr Owl? We need to get Mary Ann and Ginger over here. But who's who? lol I'm guessing you're The Skipper for piloting us here. I nominate @victorialynn2 as her preferred character! Are you the farm girl or the movie star? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarrsCars Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 10/18/2017 at 4:19 PM, alsancle said: Also just noticed the odd double whitewalls on the Duesenberg,especially noticeable on the pic I took from the linked article. It looks almost like those old add-on whitewalls, but then with another blackwall added on top of that?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, MarrsCars said: That museum is a sacred place, That Museum is my favorite place in the world. I went from Rochester, NY to Toledo, OH for a business meeting a few years ago. Scheduled the meeting early, stayed at the Auburn Inn, and spent the next day at the museum. Seemed the logical thing to do. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 10/20/2017 at 12:10 AM, Bloo said: Stutz you say? https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/1972-stutz-blackhawk-humpback/6346981237.html If I was stuck with it on my lot it might get renamed a Notre Dame. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Interesting comparison, that movie had a lot to do with dogma and what was considered appropriate. I just used the term on the Forum a few days ago in one of those "state of the hobby" resistance to change topics. Here is the story about the origin of those cars: http://www.velocetoday.com/exner-renwal-revival-cars/ Sonny Liston is on the cover of the December 1963 Esquire magazine so getting a copy of the article will take a C-note. Anyone have a copy they can scan? I have two of the Renwal kits on the shelf above me. The concept is really exciting in almost any obsolesced product. That's where the dogma part comes in and the concept dies from picking at the details.. You know how that goes. Well, better shut down. I can smell The Beyond Burgers cooking in the kitchen. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 All that Dusey is missing is a bumper sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorialynn2 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 10 hours ago, MarrsCars said: But who's who? lol I'm guessing you're The Skipper for piloting us here. I nominate @victorialynn2 as her preferred character! Are you the farm girl or the movie star? Y’all are so funny! To answer your question, I’d like to hope I’m not as high maintenance as Ginger and I’m closer to a Mary Ann. However, I do have that whole “find a cute guy to work on the cars” thing going because I don’t want to break my nails. Sadly you will have to find another of each because I don’t like the looks of this car at all... Sorry guys. Thanks for thinking of me though! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 I find it better looking than all other American 1966 sedans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Golly, West, I can't join you in that opinion. To me the design isn't cohesive on very many levels, for lack of a better word. My viewpoints... The 'razor edge' roof clashes with the softness of the lines of the front hood and fenders. The greenhouse seems too tall for the body section below it and the windshield seems too 'upright.' The wheel opening decoration, while I acknowledge the inspiration, simply doesn't work for me. The front end is not bad at all, although it would look much better with a smaller 'crank hole cover;' wonder why they made that so large? The rear view also doesn't work for me, with the heavy bumper bars and the tiny taillights underneath almost as an afterthought. From my perspective a 1966 Chevrolet Impala features a much more cohesive design and far superior surface development (marred primarily by a visually too-heavy rear bumper), but that's just me. Flame on... LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 22, 2017 Author Share Posted October 22, 2017 1 hour ago, West Peterson said: I find it better looking than all other American 1966 sedans. This is an interesting thread (of course started by me) with such a wide gap in opinions. What is the head count on the Island right now, 3 or 4? If it was equal in looks to any other American sedan (it is not, it is better) then it would still be cool because it is a one off coachbuilt (Ghia) car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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