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In need of a nail in the head


Randalll

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Hello everyone,

 

    My name is Randall and I am a newbie so I want to say hello and thank you for accepting me into this group. I just picked up a '63 Riviera. I love this car! I am 2nd owner and car has 38,000 original miles. Unfortunately the original owner had put about 3 extra quarts of motor oil in it and it threw a rod. So obviously I am in need of a 445 wildcat nailhead . Will take any of the factory motors for that car as I want to stay as original as possible. If at all possible I would like a used but running motor. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time. 

 

Randall.

Cell: 310-651-0912

email. randalllehman@outlook.com

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And just for the record, you need a 401 cubic inch motor. 445 was the torque rating. Several items of the 63 motor make it unique. Several threads on this forum discuss differences. Read these before you buy something that be a nailhead, but will require other modification to work in your Riviera.

And I think your springs are fine.

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3 hours ago, RivNut said:

"Threw a rod."

Through the block?  Just wondering why you can't rebuild the original.

 

IMHO, a very good question.  Barring something irreversibly destructive (like shrapnel through the block), a nailhead can be rebuilt.

 

I'm a little curious about the car, though.  Did the PO lower it?  (That seems somewhat unusual taste for what would have to be a guy in his 70s.)  Was it driven around at all after the sale?  And the oil was never checked?  I'm just a little confused about the timeline: a guy who has owned the car for over 50 years overfills the crankcase, sells the car, it gets lowered, and it blows up. Is that the right order?

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Randall,

 

It would help a bunch if we knew where you are located.

 

If you've never owned a car powered by a nailhead, one of the first things you need to do is flush all the Chevy knowledge from your brain.  The nailhead is designed to produce a lot of torque.  Look at the size of the exhaust valve (it's small enough to have given the engine its name.) The engine is NOT designed for high rpm's.  If you look at another thread on this forum, you'll find a discussion on Buick factory tachs that would have come in nailhead powered cars.  Look at what rpm's the numbers turn yellow then red.  If you took that old engine over 4500 rpm's, YOU probably put a rod through the block.  When handled properly and treated the way they were designed, these engine especially are really good. 

 

The U.S. Air Force used 401 Buicks to spool the engines on the SR71 Blackbirds.  When Buick stopped producing the nailhead, the Air Force switched to 454 Chevy engines. BUT the were not stock.  The Chevy engines had to be heavily modified to produce and hold the torque needed to spool the Pratt and Whitney J58 turbo jet which produced 34,000 lbs. of thrust.   

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung&ei=bBrkWei4J8OXmQGjtZjABA&q=SR-71+Start+cart&oq=SR-71+Start+cart&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12..0j0i22i30k1l2.6953.16314.0.17968.5.5.0.0.0.0.847.1433.0j4j6-1.5.0....0...1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.4.1288...0i13k1j0i8i13i30k1.0.R4d4PuHFGjI#imgrc=SAnBZ6yjMusWJM:&xxri=3

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

IMHO, a very good question.  Barring something irreversibly destructive (like shrapnel through the block), a nailhead can be rebuilt.

 

I took my heads in to be reworked a year ago and the machine shop had an early Chrysler hemi on the counter that they had just rebuilt after someone put a rod through the side of the block. It's amazing what a good shop can do these days.

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You're absolutely right, of course.  I probably should have said something like "requiring a prohibitively expensive repair".  I'd guess that Hemi might be a much more valuable engine than a '63 401, and thus it might make more sense to do that kind of work on it.  For example, there was a listing on here a few days ago about a '63 Electra in OK(?) for $300 or so.  Which means that for maybe $1500 you could have an engine and transmission anywhere in the country.  I don't know that fixing a fist-size hole in the side of a block would cost any less than that, and you'd likely be ahead of the game by starting with a (hopefully) solid block.

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15 hours ago, RivNut said:

I took my heads in to be reworked a year ago and the machine shop had an early Chrysler hemi on the counter that they had just rebuilt after someone put a rod through the side of the block. It's amazing what a good shop can do these days.

Wow, I had no idea they could do that kinda fix these days. I will look into that. Thank you so much.

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15 hours ago, RivNut said:

Randall,

 

It would help a bunch if we knew where you are located.

 

If you've never owned a car powered by a nailhead, one of the first things you need to do is flush all the Chevy knowledge from your brain.  The nailhead is designed to produce a lot of torque.  Look at the size of the exhaust valve (it's small enough to have given the engine its name.) The engine is NOT designed for high rpm's.  If you look at another thread on this forum, you'll find a discussion on Buick factory tachs that would have come in nailhead powered cars.  Look at what rpm's the numbers turn yellow then red.  If you took that old engine over 4500 rpm's, YOU probably put a rod through the block.  When handled properly and treated the way they were designed, these engine especially are really good. 

 

The U.S. Air Force used 401 Buicks to spool the engines on the SR71 Blackbirds.  When Buick stopped producing the nailhead, the Air Force switched to 454 Chevy engines. BUT the were not stock.  The Chevy engines had to be heavily modified to produce and hold the torque needed to spool the Pratt and Whitney J58 turbo jet which produced 34,000 lbs. of thrust.   

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=tablet-android-samsung&ei=bBrkWei4J8OXmQGjtZjABA&q=SR-71+Start+cart&oq=SR-71+Start+cart&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.12..0j0i22i30k1l2.6953.16314.0.17968.5.5.0.0.0.0.847.1433.0j4j6-1.5.0....0...1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.4.1288...0i13k1j0i8i13i30k1.0.R4d4PuHFGjI#imgrc=SAnBZ6yjMusWJM:&xxri=3

You are very knowledgeable about all of this. Quite a history lesson. I like it. Like I said I love the car and plan to be buried in it so I want to do the best job I can on it. I never thought you could fix a broken Block. I have a good engine machine shop near me, I will go talk to them, however if you guys come across anything worth while in the engine dept. please let me know. I don't have a ton of cash right now and want to keep the Riv mobile while I restore it so please keep your eyes out for me. Thank you. 

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18 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

IMHO, a very good question.  Barring something irreversibly destructive (like shrapnel through the block), a nailhead can be rebuilt.

 

I'm a little curious about the car, though.  Did the PO lower it?  (That seems somewhat unusual taste for what would have to be a guy in his 70s.)  Was it driven around at all after the sale?  And the oil was never checked?  I'm just a little confused about the timeline: a guy who has owned the car for over 50 years overfills the crankcase, sells the car, it gets lowered, and it blows up. Is that the right order?

Grandfather of PO stored it in barn after 38,000 on car. fast forward grandson tries to lower it with paint cans under bumpers and a torch to the springs. No problem I am a suspension guy, I can fix that and keep it low I am a lover of low. Anyway  grandson pulls it out of barn and changes the oil and puts 6 qts back in plus oil treatment. Drives for about4 weeks and threw the rod going about 30 MPH. fast forward I buy it because I love it and the rest of the car is in great condition, interior is immaculate. Sorry for the mis-quote, I did not throw the rod it was already done when I bought it. I really appreciate all this feedback, very helpful. 

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21 hours ago, steelman said:

And just for the record, you need a 401 cubic inch motor. 445 was the torque rating. Several items of the 63 motor make it unique. Several threads on this forum discuss differences. Read these before you buy something that be a nailhead, but will require other modification to work in your Riviera.

And I think your springs are fine.

Thank you steelman, I appreciate all of your help and information. I love em low too. 

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Hello Randall,

 

Keep an eye out on Craigslist for the motor.  I see them occasionally and I search the term "nailhead".  This forum is a good source of information.

 

If you have a static drop, then it's pretty low.  I comment on it because I know certain parts of the Rivi hang pretty low.  BTW, mine is lowered too but not that low.

 

I hope you find that motor.  I'm in San Diego, and I know there is a rebuilt one in Ramona on CL right now.

 

Chris

Edited by first64riv (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Do a Google search for "Russ Martin Nailhead".  He's a nailhead guru who lives in Grass Valley, CA.  Don't know how far that is from you, but he can probably guide you to repairing or replacing your engine.

 

Thank you very much. I really appreciate the help. 

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On 10/16/2017 at 7:12 PM, RivNut said:

Do a Google search for "Russ Martin Nailhead".  He's a nailhead guru who lives in Grass Valley, CA.  Don't know how far that is from you, but he can probably guide you to repairing or replacing your engine.

 

I have an extra nailhead, but so do a lot people much closer to you. Russ Martin is a very special resource and is at nailheadbuick.com for your more sophisticated nailhead needs. He's very good but not inexpensive.

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Thank you very much for the info. I will look him up. I found one close to me for $600. It's complete but owner says it has a rod knock...what is it about these motors and rod issues? So I'm not sure if 600 is a good deal. Thank you again. One last question: Are cranks hard to find for these motors? and can they be turned and reused?

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23 hours ago, first64riv said:

Hello Randall,

 

Keep an eye out on Craigslist for the motor.  I see them occasionally and I search the term "nailhead".  This forum is a good source of information.

 

If you have a static drop, then it's pretty low.  I comment on it because I know certain parts of the Rivi hang pretty low.  BTW, mine is lowered too but not that low.

 

I hope you find that motor.  I'm in San Diego, and I know there is a rebuilt one in Ramona on CL right now.

 

Chris

Thanks man!

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1 hour ago, Randalll said:

Thank you very much for the info. I will look him up. I found one close to me for $600. It's complete but owner says it has a rod knock...what is it about these motors and rod issues? So I'm not sure if 600 is a good deal. Thank you again. One last question: Are cranks hard to find for these motors? and can they be turned and reused?

Rod issues - owners neglect.  One ROA member had 362K on his 63 at the ROA in Reno this past June.  Floyd was presented with a Special Achievement "Survivor" award.

 

Be aware that 401/425 cranks are interchangeable but the 63 and earlier (back to '59) have a different hub on the back than do the 64 - 66 engines.  In 64, the Dynaflow was dropped in favor of the ST400.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:04 PM, RivNut said:

Rod issues - owners neglect.  One ROA member had 362K on his 63 at the ROA in Reno this past June.  Floyd was presented with a Special Achievement "Survivor" award.

 

Be aware that 401/425 cranks are interchangeable but the 63 and earlier (back to '59) have a different hub on the back than do the 64 - 66 engines.  In 64, the Dynaflow was dropped in favor of the ST400.

 

So what do you do if you buy a 64 block and want to use your 63 crank? or are you saying that's not possible?

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28 minutes ago, Randalll said:

Anyone have an opinion on buying a Grade "A" motor for $900.00? It's an out of state motor with no pictures but they give a 90 day warranty. 

If you have to use the warranty who pays shipping back and forth? Just not a good idea unless buying from a known reputable seller/builder. Maybe OK if you were local. Sounds too cheap. Post the link to this Grade A engine so we can see.

 

If you are looking for a good used engine to drop in without hassle DO NOT buy without hearing it run. Sometimes you can buy a whole parts car with a running engine cheaper or for same price as you would just for a known good engine.  Most of the time you will find engines that need work. These nailheads are sought after enough that good ones get snapped up quickly probably even more so in your region due to the longevity of bodies

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On October 17, 2017 at 8:04 PM, RivNut said:

Rod issues - owners neglect.  One ROA member had 362K on his 63 at the ROA in Reno this past June.  Floyd was presented with a Special Achievement "Survivor" award.

 

Be aware that 401/425 cranks are interchangeable but the 63 and earlier (back to '59) have a different hub on the back than do the 64 - 66 engines.  In 64, the Dynaflow was dropped in favor of the ST400.

 

Was that 362 k without a rebuild? Amazing if so. I have well over 100k on my 65 gs and she still fires up within first revolution and purrs like a baby wildcat?

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I believe I saw this car on CL about a year and half ago. I was impressed by how good shape it was in, but kept going when I saw it had a rod knock. Just couldn't afford to do a motor. They do look amazing in gold. Sounds like it's gone to a good home.

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12 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Randall,im in los angeles . Call this cat. 909-786-5323. Forgot his name .Anytime i ever needed anything for my 65 he had it .always has 2 or 3 rivis in his yard he is parting out. Very easy to deal with prices are reasonable.Located in rancho cucamonga .good luck.

Thanks man...I really appreciate the help. I will give him a call tomorrow.

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5 hours ago, jsgun said:

I believe I saw this car on CL about a year and half ago. I was impressed by how good shape it was in, but kept going when I saw it had a rod knock. Just couldn't afford to do a motor. They do look amazing in gold. Sounds like it's gone to a good home.

And yes it is at a good home. for the rest of it's life and mine.

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On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 11:54 PM, Randalll said:

Did you actually drive it? How did you know it had the knock? Just curious.

Nope, didn't check it out. If I remember right, the ad said it had a slight knock. I think it was right before I found mine, that was august a year ago. I remember it because it looked so wicked lowered down. But then it didn't mention anything about hydros or airbags. Combined with the knock, it scared me off.

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