Mid 20's timing cover oil leaks

[Hubert_25-25]

I need to put a new seal in the timing cover on my 25-25

CAMSHAFT  SEAL.  If I install a modern lip seal, is it OK to leave the spiral groove on the shaft sealing surface of the pulley, or will this groove reduce the life and effectiveness of the lip seal?

STARTER CRANK PACKED SEAL.  I believe the starter crank seal is packed with felt, but possibly not worn out since it does not do a lot of turning.  I have never witnessed my car running, so I have no clue if this area leaked oil.  To get to the packing, you have to remove 1 drive pin and a cotter pin on the outside end of the shaft.   Is this seal worth the effort to change, or do they stay pretty dry?  If I try to remove the driven in pin, are there any tricks for removal?

Thank you,   Hugh

 

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Hubert_25-25
added arrows to picture (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

I haven`t had any problem with the original seal,and I have driven my 1925-25 in nearly 50 year now(47). Can`t belive that a new type of  rubber seal will work on this spiral groove.

Leif in Sweden

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Hugh, I agree with Lief.  If you want to use a new type seal, a sleeve over the pulley shaft is in order.

 

  Ben

[Larry Schramm]

Is there an oil slinger on the crankshaft?  If so that is what is suppose to keep the majority of oil away from the front of the engine.  The groove is used to work any oil back to the crankcase.  If there was no seal, putting in a seal could make the engine leak A LOT more oil.  Tried installing a seal in my truck and it leaked terribly.  Removed the felt seal and it is almost dry.  Remember that these old cars always leak.  If they are not leaking oil, then there is probably something wrong.  Just IMO.

[26-25Buick]

Hugh,

My starter crank seal doesn’t leak either and it hasn’t been touched in over 50 years. 

[DonMicheletti]

If it aint broke, dont fix it

[dibarlaw]

Hugh:

 I would go by what the others have said. There was no evidence of leakage on my crank. My leakage was at the pulley. I did get a lip seal for it (I believe you were part of the posts on how we changed these out) but I still kept some of the felt inside the new lip seal case for insurance. I would have to search for the NAPA seal #. I had to turn a few thousands off of the case to press fit into the cover bore. No leaks since I installed it. Of course all was for naught since all is coming apart for the engine work. I will have to see who originally posted these photos.

 

These photos are when I changed mine. I was able to do it with out removing the radiator or timing cover.

Fitting felt into lip seal case.                                                      Cleaned bore. Still had to clean threads.

New Seal with assortment of collars/washers to draw the seal into the bore. 

                                                                                                                 Drawing in with a touch of sealer on the outside of the seal.

Final fit to below the surface.

 

[Hubert_25-25]

Thank you for all the advise. 

 

The lip seal that Bob's sells, and the replacement number are shown below.  I also found a sleeve called a "speedi-sleeve" or "redi-sleeve" for the camshaft pulley.  It sounds like I should install this on the camshaft pulley.  The one I need is 99155.  They say to use a non hardening sealant on the shaft prior to installing.   I will leave the crank starter alone.    Hugh

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[JerryVan]

I made my own sleeve to go on my pulley hub. A Speedi-Sleeve should work though. However, be sure to fill the existing groove in the hub to prevent leakage under the sleeve. 

[Hubert_25-25]

Jerry, 

Thanks for the tip.  I was thinking of using JB weld, and not filling the entire deep groove, but only about 1/4" long right in the middle of the groove spiral.  I can use a razor blade for application so that the epoxy is smooth with the pulley OD.  This would create a dam in the groove.  I also bought Permatex 64000 sleeve retainer which I plan to put on the pulley prior to installation of the speedy sleeve.  Hugh

[DonMicheletti]

I have used the Speedi Sleeves for several hub repairs. They are a teriffic solution to a nagging problem. And when installed they typically are a lot better than the original sealing surface

 

[Fred Rawling]

For my 1928 Master, I took the timing cover and the pulley to a real bearing supply house .  The guy measured them both and got me a new neoprene seal.   pretty easy.Fpr tje 1928 ser 120 & 178, the seal number is National 472635 or SKF 15450 available through Napa also.

 

Fred