Constantino D. Karfitsas

Help needed to further document a recently acquired 1920 Stutz Model H 7 passenger

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Hello everyone,

I'm a newbie here in this forum from in Orlando, Florida area.

I've recently acquired a really nice 1920 Stutz Model H 7 passenger at a salvage auction and unfortunately at these types of auctions there is no access to the seller who most of the time is an insurance agency and the history of the vehicle gets lots. 

This vehicle in question was a 2009 National champion at AACA and was restored by Mr. Ron Kneebone.

The vehicle is still in excellent condition but it is missing the correct rear end with its transmission and that is where my quest begins.

I would really like to know more about the history of the vehicle, previous ownerships, what happened for it to end up in a salvage auction in Virginia and the whereabouts of the rear end.

The vehicle's Chassis # is 7201

I would REALLY appreciate any help and information from you all,  perhaps someone here knows Mr. Ron Kneebone or even the previous owner.

I also know that this year the vehicle was sold at a Classic cars auction in Texas, somehow it ended up in Virginia near Richmond area and then at the salvage auction.

I will attempt to post a couple of pictures of it here.

Once again thank you very much.

For quicker response I can be reached at cdkarfitsas@gmail.com -  rtsmotorsports@hotmail.com or 407 466-8887

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Edited by Constantino D. Karfitsas
typo (see edit history)

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I, too, would love to know how such a beautiful car ended up as "salvage!"  Did other people at the auction know what they were looking at or did you manage to get it for a low price?  What a great find - and best of luck finding the missing parts, I wish I could help.

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Hello kmstrade and thank you for taking your time to respond to my thread, it would b fantastic if you could try to find either Mr. Ron Kneebone or any information on chassis # 7201.

Mr. Ron Kneebone is or was a member of The Stutz club for sure, I found piece of information on the web, please see it here below:

 

Description

Mechanically identical to the Bearcat with the exception of an inside shift lever Recognized as a Full Classic by the Classic Car Club of America Long-term restoration by Stutz Club member Ron Kneebone AACA National First Prize; maintained and equipped for touring Proven on two Horseless Carriage Club tours since 2009

 

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Hello Taylormade,

I believe not that many people knew what exactly they were looking at, but it doesn't take more than 2 people who knows to engage in a bidding war and thus drive the price high. I believe I still got a very decent deal though.

Thank you for the kind wishes.........I too hope I can locate the history of this vehicle and the missing rear end.

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The sort of event that may have caused someone to abandon the car as salvage is failure of the protection that is supposed to stop two gears being engaged simultaneously.  The lock-out is supposed to be by flat blade springs which prevent the change lever swinging from first/reverse to intermediate/top.  Most likely mishap is second being engaged when first gear pair are still in mesh.  The consequences for transaxle housing and gears can be catestrophic.  With the project I gathered years ago, nothing came to me of the housing except the very small bit which carried the selector shafts and the selector forks still on them.  The cluster gear shaft has the gears assembled onto the shaft as neat fit, with each gear assembled to the shaft with two large woodruff keys at 90 degrees.   Without going to look, those half-moon keys must be around 5/16 to 3/8 inch thick.  These are generally not much better than mild steel, but it still requires a very severe impact to shear two such woodruff keys cleanly at the interface of gear and cluster shaft.  That is probably why the survival of those T-head 4 cylinder Stutz engines is so much higher than that of the transaxles. In the beginning I had seven engines,  and some remains of one transaxle.   I gave one extra engine to a friend of long standing,  Fred Edwards; and sold others cheaply to people who mostly showed themselves to be graceless and un-deserving.  ( The worst was one in New ------------.  I offered, gratis, to crate the engine for transport; and deliver it to whichever transport company depot I Melbourne he chose.  That was about 90 miles distant from me, on the far side of the state capital.   Several weeks later I was billed by his freight company for his freight.   I spoke to a lady there, and had copies of the correspondence faxed to her, and she told me she was able to deal with rogues like that.)

About 1980 Paul Freehill had casting patterns made, and then had high strength heat treated aluminium castings made by Foley Pattern Company in Auburn Indiana, and had them machined somewhere.  I understand someone bought his remaining stock form Ann.  If you cannot find the person through the Stutz Club , I can get the name and address from Fred Edwards, who visited the man several years ago.

When you fix it, Make sure the interlock between the two selector shafts is absolutely accident -proof.

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