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Payment for parts,shipping,Paypal, problems??


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Ok.  So here is my question.  I have sold some parts to a buyer overseas.  Shipping is very costly and I have sold a considerable dollar amount of parts to them.  I have been asked if I take Paypal for payment, which I do.  Insurance will have to be paid on the shipment.  I want to be sure that there is no way for this to turn around and bite me for freight, or refunds through Paypal.

 

I have sold some things on evilbay and had the customer reject the parts and I had to pay return shipping, plus refund their money. Lose-lose situation.

 

This particular transaction is NOT through evilbay.  Anyone ran into problems with paypal wanting a credit back to a customer or anything of the sorts?  We are  not talking about small change and worries me.

 

thanks

Matt 

Edited by jackofalltrades70 (see edit history)
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I don't know what paypal's policy is since ebay sold them.

When an ebay/paypal transaction takes place and the buyer files a complaint they CAN require you to refund the buy in total.

If YOU don't THEY will and bill you for it.

Outside of ebay I've had money sent to me without a hitch but remember paypal will charge you 2.9% to run it for you.

Depending on the amount you're talking about you might be better off doing a wire transfer directly to your checking account.

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I've had no problem with outside deals on pay pal,  but I don't think I've had any over 500.00 .  A bank transfer would probably insure there is no way to come back on you as mentioned.  Whether the buyer will go for that or not is questionable.  If so,  i would use the bank transfer.  If nothing else to help avoid the fees.  I think the rate is higher than quoted as well as international funds transfers are subject to a higher fee.  It's an extra percent or two I believe. 

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if you use paypal, they favor the buyer, as does ebay.

 

sold a car part to a fella in England for 200. and got stiffed out of the money. He stated that he didnt recve the item, then mentioned he had a crazy neighbor who often stole his mail.

 

in the end- I lost 200.

 

I wouldnt ever accept ppl overseas, and I did thousands of dollars of business with them, even getting paid 8300. for a model A ford that went to Norway.

Bank transfer is the way to go and very inexpensive...........

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17 hours ago, jackofalltrades70 said:

Ok.  So here is my question.  I have sold some parts to a buyer overseas.  Shipping is very costly and I have sold a considerable dollar amount of parts to them.  I have been asked if I take Paypal for payment, which I do.  Insurance will have to be paid on the shipment.  I want to be sure that there is no way for this to turn around and bite me for freight, or refunds through Paypal.

 

I have sold some things on evilbay and had the customer reject the parts and I had to pay return shipping, plus refund their money. Lose-lose situation.

 

This particular transaction is NOT through evilbay.  Anyone ran into problems with paypal wanting a credit back to a customer or anything of the sorts?  We are  not talking about small change and worries me.

 

thanks

Matt 

 

I guess I don't see the issue here .....

 

Are you misrepresenting condition ?

 

If you want a " sure thing " then sell your wares locally for cash .....

 

Jim

Edited by Trulyvintage (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Trulyvintage said:

 

I guess I don't see the issue here .....

 

Seems you have sold to this particular customer before - so this is a repeat customer ......

 

Why are are you doubting their intentions now to complete a transaction without a claim or return ?

 

Are you misrepresenting condition ?

 

If you want a " sure thing " then sell your wares locally for cash .....

 

Jim

 

It doesn't appear to me that he has sold them parts before??? 

 

In any case, paypal is less secure than a bank transfer...

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I understood that paypal was a secure way of ensuring you get paid and I have bought and sold stuff, using this form of payment, with no problems. If Paypal was not secure, then I'm sure that companies like Ecklers, Mac's etc would not be offering payment using paypal.

  Ebay are another story, they look after their buyers. I sold some lenses to Australia, sent them from Canada and they were posted "Express mail", the guy got fed up waiting after 6 weeks and claimed a refund thru ebay. Ebay refunded him without consulting me. 3 Months later the stuff arrived in Aussie and the guy contacted us and paid us back for them. There are a lot of honest people in the old car movement and it takes just one to sour it for all of us.

 If you are worried about your buyer defaulting on you, then find out more about him, ask for pictures of the car he wants the parts for. You can ask him to push it outside his house and take pictures, then you can google his address and see if the picture appears to be in the right neighbourhood. You can ask him if he is a member of a club and ask which one. With todays technology you can do so much research on the guy.

 Another thing you can do too, is ask the guy, if there is anyone else he has bought spares from, that you can contact who will vouch for him.

 Bank cheques and bank transfers can be reversed by the bank, up to 6 months after purchase, upon written request by the buyer. If he has enough reason to ask refund from the bank, the bank can reverse a transfer.

 The banks do also do an irrevocable letter of credit or payment, that you can ask for, these are non refundable.

I live in Africa and have always had good dealing with people in the old car movement, I have had guys very nervous of dealing with countries outside the first world and for this reason, My sister in Canada is often asked to pay on my behalf.

Regards

Viv.

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1 hour ago, Trulyvintage said:

 

I guess I don't see the issue here .....

 

Are you misrepresenting condition ?

 

If you want a " sure thing " then sell your wares locally for cash .....

 

Jim

No, I am not a sheister like others. Keep your crappy comments to yourself if you don't know me.

 

have a nice day

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I do a lot of business through PayPal (I sell an instruction manual on one of my websites that can be downloaded after paying $25 through PayPal). A few times I've had a buyer download the book then try to claim a refund through PayPal. PayPal does indeed take the money instantly and give it back to them, then they make you explain yourself. For PayPal, the buyer is always right, the seller has to explain himself, and PayPal is the intermediary. That's fine, I understand why they do it that way.

 

After two or three times of guys stealing the book and claiming a refund, I got smart. Now I have PayPal do a daily sweep to a bank account I opened just for this purpose. Any money in my PayPal account gets moved to my personal bank account each night. Now I learned the hard way that PayPal can reach in there and pull money out of your account, so by opening an account that is solely designed to receive money from PayPal, I can automatically transfer money from THAT account to another one where PayPal can't touch it. Now when someone files a dispute and PayPal goes to take the money, it's not there and they have to deal with me directly. They don't like it--try to find a phone number for customer service on their website--but they have no choice when there's no money to take. This gives me the opportunity to explain the situation and decide if I want to participate in the refund rather than being on the back end of the whole deal.

 

Anyway, I don't dislike PayPal, even with this policy. 99.9% of the time, I have zero problems and I have moved tens of thousands of dollars through them in the past 20 years. Once in a while you'll get some smart alec who is gaming the system and then there are problems. If you have a PayPal only account into which you sweep the money each night, and a second sweep designed to move that money into another account, you'll never get burned.

 

I've also learned that overseas buyers are really the ones taking the risk. They're sending you a pile of money and hoping that they get what they paid for. I tend to trust them for that reason. Not to say there aren't guys trying to cheat, but for the most part, I've found overseas buyers to be honest and forthright and not trying to pull a fast one (obvious scams not included).

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Btw, you don't have to misrepresent anything to a buyer. All they have to do is later say they don't like it or didn't fit or I didn't ask my wife, etc.  Your wares can be advertised perfectly well.  If you sell $200.00 of much needed parts to someone and costs $150.00 to ship them. If they complain, you are out the original shipping AND the return shipping when dealing with evilbay.  You now are $100.00 in the hole.

 

This is precisely the reason for my question to see if paypal is the same way.  

 

Matt

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I've bought and sold a bunch of stuff on Ebay, it gives you a market for both you wouldn't otherwise have.  I have some very rare Pierce Arrow memorabilia in my collection because of Ebay.

 

That said, I did as Matt suggests.  I opened a completely separate checking account, from which money is drawn and deposited.  I keep very little money in there, add it as needed to buy something, take it out immediately when paid for something.  Works like a charm....

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4 hours ago, viv w said:

 Ebay are another story, they look after their buyers. I sold some lenses to Australia, sent them from Canada and they were posted "Express mail", the guy got fed up waiting after 6 weeks and claimed a refund thru ebay. Ebay refunded him without consulting me. 3 Months later the stuff arrived in Aussie and the guy contacted us and paid us back for them.

 

I had an experience on ebay selling a toy machine shop setup for $170.

I sent the box, insured, through the USPS priority mail.

After about a month it hadn't arrived and USPS tracking just QUIT........I couldn't get any shipping updates...... :blink:

Long story short ebay sent me a note saying the buyer had filed a complaint they hadn't received their package, they had refunded their money and, in so many words, threatened me to pay up!

I called ebay and asked if the package DOES show up what can I do to get paid back.

NOTHING........absolutely NOTHING....... :angry:

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Closed a PayPal account due to learning about fraud on the part of buyers. Seems that some unscrupulous buyers have a way of having PayPal show that their payment has been made when it hasn't. This problem was evident when I listed a 24' boat on CL and received a number of responses from buyers thousands of miles away saying that they would buy the boat and that they had already sent the money  via PayPal. The scammers were so busy responding to many adds that they did not realize how ridiculous they were. Obviously, they would get a seller to ship the item and find out later that there had never been money deposited. As a result, I have asked for a bank draft/check which killed a sale of NOS headlight rims to a buyer in Australia. Hard to believe that he was a scammer but he never sent a payment as requested.

 

Sorry, but no PayPal for me.

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It is possible for a buyer to claim they didn't get it, when in fact they did, and get refunded. That could be with uninsured delivery without tracking.

 

Also, I think we also heard about a seller letting the buyer pick it up in person. The the buyer (fraud) claims it was "not received" and since there is no tracked package they get refunded.

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8 hours ago, jackofalltrades70 said:

No, I am not a sheister like others. Keep your crappy comments to yourself if you don't know me.

 

have a nice day

 

You are the Seller.

 

You already made the Sale to an Overseas Buyer - your choice.

 

It is up to you to decide the method of payment before you put your items up for sale & sell them.

 

If you are not mis-reprsenting what you are selling - you have nothing to worry about.

 

Jim 

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Same experience with ebay and paypal.  Sold some sensors to a buyer and they were perfectly described as NOS.  Buyer claimed the description was not correct because they were not CURRENT design.  ebay/paypal took the money back and the buyer kept the merchandise.  I could not even defend myself and I got a bad rating. Since then I do not sell anything on ebay. Period. 

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After reading all of these post and you still want to sell on eBay I think I would see if it is possible to have shipping and return shipping non-refundable. I assume you represent your product accurately and that a buyer wants the product based on that description. If the buyer has that cost he may be less likely to return on a whim. 

Or all overseas sales are via bank transfer only. That would probably cost you some sales but also save hassles in the long run.  Good luck. 

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Have any of you thought about  Western Union.l sent a part to Norway and picked up the money at a local bank.

All the expense was on the buyers end.no fee of any kind on my end.

Just make sure the name you use to receive funds matches your drivers license!!!

Ken

 

Have also used them and yes, very very expensive. Bank transfer still wins!

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56 minutes ago, cahartley said:

There are SO many Western Union scams I'd be scared to use them....... :wacko:

In the recent past, it seems that Western Union transactions were the choice of scammers everywhere.  I've had no personal experience with this; however, I've read so many tales of woe on internet forums and via newspaper articles that I would not even consider a Western Union transaction.  Perhaps circumstances have changed in the last 4 - 5 years.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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On 8/22/2017 at 0:50 PM, trimacar said:

I've bought and sold a bunch of stuff on Ebay, it gives you a market for both you wouldn't otherwise have.  I have some very rare Pierce Arrow memorabilia in my collection because of Ebay.

 

That said, I did as Matt suggests.  I opened a completely separate checking account, from which money is drawn and deposited.  I keep very little money in there, add it as needed to buy something, take it out immediately when paid for something.  Works like a charm....

I'm trying to undo my "hoarding" habits a bit at a time these days. Consequently, I've sold quite a lot of items on eBay. Then my wife pays bills with our PayPal acct, and uses that money for holiday gifts. Whenever she needs more $$$ than what we have in PayPal, I have always just bought a PayPal card at a local store. But now none of our local stores seem to sell those cards any more, and I don't want to use a credit card to put $$$ in PayPal account. So the method Matt and Trimacar have suggested seem like a very good idea for me. I would be able to add or remove $$ at will, AND my main checking acct would not be accessible to PayPal or eBay, etc. As stated by others, I would still want to be responsible if any buyer had a legitimate complaint with anything I would sell. But at least PayPal would need to contact me and communicate about the transaction. That would be nice, although I hope I will never need to experience that.  

 

And for those doubters, let me state for the record that I have never had an eBay or PayPal chargeback of any kind, and have a 100% positive feedback rating. I just do not like the idea of a policy of charging back the seller with absolutely no recourse, and no investigation intoi whether or not the buyer is telling the truth. 

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all depends on the dollar amount to me-ols

 

if I sell a car- always wire transfer and dont let the car go till I get the cash from the bank.

 

if its a small amount- I am a bit more flexible. But, I dont ship overseas any longer (parts)- just too much hassle for me and not enough protection.

 

a car, no problem with the wire.

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I have sold a few things on eBay and have not had a problem thus far. I know it's just the law of averages. If I sold lots more I'd be bound to get some sort of complaints or disputes. Many buyers leave me no feedback. I still have 100%. The ones that leave none neither help nor hurt you.

 

I also maintain a blocked bidder list. Once i was selling a front grill with a small ding in it. Took a good close-up of the ding and disclosed it. Had a potential bidder ask me if I guaranteed he'd be able to get the ding out by carefully pushing it from the back side. I said sure and put him on the blocked bidder list.

 

There is once I got ripped off as a buyer. It was back when they still allowed sellers to say they only took money orders. I sent the money order and received nothing and had no recourse. Now they don't allow listings that say only payment by money order.

 

As far as the OP's original question, I don't even remember what it was. He already had the cash in hand, and was concerned about shipping overseas because the buyer might claim they did not get it, or that it was not as advertised and want a refund? 

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5 hours ago, lump said:

I'm trying to undo my "hoarding" habits a bit at a time these days. Consequently, I've sold quite a lot of items on eBay. Then my wife pays bills with our PayPal acct, and uses that money for holiday gifts. Whenever she needs more $$$ than what we have in PayPal, I have always just bought a PayPal card at a local store. But now none of our local stores seem to sell those cards any more, and I don't want to use a credit card to put $$$ in PayPal account. So the method Matt and Trimacar have suggested seem like a very good idea for me. I would be able to add or remove $$ at will, AND my main checking acct would not be accessible to PayPal or eBay, etc. As stated by others, I would still want to be responsible if any buyer had a legitimate complaint with anything I would sell. But at least PayPal would need to contact me and communicate about the transaction. That would be nice, although I hope I will never need to experience that.  

 

And for those doubters, let me state for the record that I have never had an eBay or PayPal chargeback of any kind, and have a 100% positive feedback rating. I just do not like the idea of a policy of charging back the seller with absolutely no recourse, and no investigation intoi whether or not the buyer is telling the truth. 

What's your feedback total?

  I don't care how stellar you try to be, 100 percent is nearly impossible to maintain if you sell alot as regardless of how much puckering up you do,  st some point during the year atleast one person will get upset for any reason or in my case,  no reason at all that applied to any part of the transaction and leave you a negative strike.  

As mentioned if you sell alot,  the USPS and others shippers are bound to lose atleast one package during the year. 

My feedback rating right now is 99.9% with 19834 feedback left.   (even that isn't correct because if you dig deep enough I saw a total of 23xxxx had been left but they only counted the 19834. )

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Being located overseas I've bought many parts from US sellers using both eBay and PayPal and in the most part been very happy with what I've received. Not once claiming a refund. So I would bet that for every bad transaction there is a significant number that go without a problem with both the seller and buyer being very happy with the outcome.

To say I'm not going to deal with one form of payment or another is fine and it's the sellers choice but I think the answer is different depending on the value of the item and not one size fits all. For instance I'm not going to run to the bank for a wire transfer for $25 but I would certainly do it if it was for $25,000. 

 

I'd hate people to think that dealing with overseas sales was a high risk enterprise and should be avoided. Hey we aren't all scammers and in most cases it's the only way we can get parts for our beloved cars.

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I sold a '29 Model A Tudor to a couple guys in Germany who were going to chop it.

Once the car was paid for the buyers kept finding things to put in the car before it left Wisconsin for Germany.

When I needed money he sent me funds via paypal plus the 2.9% paypal rake.

By the time the car left there was so much stuff in it I could barely drive it........ :P

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:05 PM, SC38DLS said:

After reading all of these post and you still want to sell on eBay I think I would see if it is possible to have shipping and return shipping non-refundable. I assume you represent your product accurately and that a buyer wants the product based on that description. If the buyer has that cost he may be less likely to return on a whim. 

Or all overseas sales are via bank transfer only. That would probably cost you some sales but also save hassles in the long run.  Good luck. 

 

I even put in the posting that the sale was non refundable.  Who knows what the buyer was using the sensors for but they were accurately described with a bunch of pictures for the two brand new never used sensors and I added some brackets, wiring, etc on top of the sensors. 

 

I view the transaction as theft by the buyer.

Edited by Larry Schramm (see edit history)
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Its a numbers game.  If you sell enough you will get burned eventually.  Lucky for me the few issues I have had always worked out.  3 times a person has bought something from me that didn't fit their application because they didn't read what I wrote in the listing.  No fault of mine.  Each time I offered to refund them the price less my own shipping expense once they sent it back, and it worked every time.  I have 100% feedback that I know will get to 99% at some time due to a bad seed. 

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I encourage overseas bidders and as mentioned over 99 percent of those transactions come off without a hitch.  I would say the defect rate is the same or less than with domestic buyers.  THat being said,  you are really cutting your nose off by not selling overseas.  They are often the high bidder and will run the table to get an item they need.  I never check but I'm pretty sure they are probably responsible for the high outbids of domestic buyers more often than you think.   I just feel bad the shipping is so high and hate that ebay gets 15 percent of that high shipping which is at actual cost. 

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What is wrong with Money Orders?

 

If you need a Postal Money order around here, you will have to spend at least 20 minutes of your life in line at the Post Office, up to an hour! Add that to having a job that I have to be at during the time the Post Office is open.......:angry:

 

Money Orders from other sources are just checks drawn on checking accounts. No guarantee they are going to be good. I had a friend who received money for rent and the renters usually got their money orders from the local store. So my friend had to call the store several times to get the money orders to clear!

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On 8/23/2017 at 0:26 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

After two or three times of guys stealing the book and claiming a refund, I got smart. Now I have PayPal do a daily sweep to a bank account I opened just for this purpose. Any money in my PayPal account gets moved to my personal bank account each night. Now I learned the hard way that PayPal can reach in there and pull money out of your account, so by opening an account that is solely designed to receive money from PayPal, I can automatically transfer money from THAT account to another one where PayPal can't touch it. Now when someone files a dispute and PayPal goes to take the money, it's not there and they have to deal with me directly. They don't like it--try to find a phone number for customer service on their website--but they have no choice when there's no money to take. This gives me the opportunity to explain the situation and decide if I want to participate in the refund rather than being on the back end of the whole deal.

 

 

Having zero balance in your account does not stop PayPal taking money out. Under PayPal's conditions you are responsible to ensure the funds are always available. PayPal will take the money and give you a negative balance. (I even know of a person who closed his account. PayPal still took the money.) Your bank will hit you with an over drawn fee. This has been tested in the courts in the USA. I can't find the link, but there is also a dollar value above which it becomes a serious offence.

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4 hours ago, lozrocks said:

 

Having zero balance in your account does not stop PayPal taking money out. Under PayPal's conditions you are responsible to ensure the funds are always available. PayPal will take the money and give you a negative balance. (I even know of a person who closed his account. PayPal still took the money.) Your bank will hit you with an over drawn fee. This has been tested in the courts in the USA. I can't find the link, but there is also a dollar value above which it becomes a serious offence.

 

If the bank wants to prosecute me and/or someone wants to sue me over $24.00, well, I guess that's up to them. The two times it has happened, I've gotten a phone call from PayPal where they explained that they have a complaint and someone wants a refund. When I explain that the person has already taken something which cannot be returned (digital content) and therefore a refund is inappropriate, they've gone away. I haven't ever been hit for an overdraft from my bank. My PAYPAL account has shown a negative balance, but that's not really a bank and I don't care what they think or do.

 

Still smart to not give them access to your main bank account. If you're not ripping people off, it's not really an issue, but yes, someone unscrupulous can always throw a wrench into the works.

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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