Big Brother is watching

[oldcar]

My Australian friends may be interested to read this, others Amused if it wasn't serious.

 

Bernie j.

 

 

Australia, Asbestos and Collector Cars

Our story begins in 2003 when the Australian government issued a zero-tolerance ban on any and all asbestos products, aimed mainly at imported Chinese drywall, a problem America also faced at the time. Fast forward to March 6, 2017 when, without prior warning to Shipping and Customs agents, let alone to owners, the Australian Border Force (ABF) began randomly testing all imported collector cars for asbestos, without any industry consultation, procedures or practices in place. One of our clients had two cars already en-route to Australia and so had no choice but to comply. One was a 1966 Shelby Mustang 350 GT and the second a stock 1966 Mustang donor-car, found together as “barn finds” and imported into Australia for restoration.

Making rules on the run

Inspectors were picked from an ABF approved list of asbestos assessors, none of whom had collector car experience since this was an all-new process. An ABF officer and a representative of the customs brokers also had to be in attendance while the owner/importer was required to provide two mechanics, tools, a floor jack, jack stands, safety clothing and masks. All five charged by the hour, with the work being done at the customs wharf.

The inspection of the Mustangs took a full 8-hour day times five people. The front brake pads, rear brake shoes, exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe gaskets from both cars plus the add-on A/C compressor from the stock Mustang were all taken for inspection. Some of the sealer from inside the wheel wells, around the firewall and the caulking around the windshield were also removed for testing. Additionally, samples were cut from the headliner material, the door frame inner padding, the hood scoop, the brake air ducts, the windshield washer bag and sample sections were cut from the wiring loom. As the 350 GT was pushed onto a hoist the ribbed aluminium oil pan fins were damaged. The pleas of both mechanics to cease the destructive sample-taking were ignored by the inspector, the customs agent and the ABF officer. As the day wound down the inspector recommended the removal of the engine and transmission for disassembly and removal of the front fenders and doors for further examination. Because of that day’s interpretation of the regulations, the owner was not allowed to be at the inspection.

Moving to plan “B”

During & after the destructive first inspection, endless e-mails and calls between the customs broker and the ABF, the owner was able to get both mustangs taken to a well-respected exotic car sales and service center in Sydney. ABF required both a removal expert and an assessor to supervise the work, a hygienist to test the air for asbestos (how could I make this up) and two mechanics in space suits, all to remove a clutch. The caulking around the windshield, firewall and inner wheel wells was also removed but reason prevailed and so the engines were not disassembled. Both cars were then released to the owner.

Total time was two months. Costs including the two removal experts, two assessors, two mechanics, (twice) the hygienist, plus the asbestos lab analyses and bulk sample report was approximately $15,000, not including the damage and cost to replace the seized parts on both cars plus the possibility of fines for non-compliance.

Meanwhile, across the continent

Meanwhile, in Perth, on the other side of Australia, an enthusiast with a DKW obsession imported a rare 1953 DKW F89, a two cylinder, 23 hp, 684 cc post-war Germany econo-car built from 1950-54 and based on a pre-war design. Although 60,000 DKW F89s were built, most were scrapped as the German economy recovered and much better cars came to market. DKW was acquired by Mercedes in 1957, sold to Volkswagen-Audi in 1964 and DKW ceased to exist.

The DKW in question was sold new into Portugal, was complete, relatively rust free and at $7,000 Aus ($5,400 USD) was a very affordable and unique collector car. As the third collector car to be inspected and the first in the Perth area, the owner was lucky. The asbestos inspector was both reasonable and horrified by the tale of the two Mustangs imported into Sydney, which had quickly gone through the collector car community. The initial inspection found asbestos in the rear brakes, the head and manifold gaskets and the under-coating in the wheel wells. The car was immediately impounded and the real problems began.

ABF again changes the rules

The owner requested that he and a mechanic remove the offending material, but this was rejected by the ABF as they were not “authorized” to enter the “secure” dockside area. ABF insisted on a professional asbestos remover, but none had vintage car experience. The owner next asked to attend with the chosen asbestos remover but was again denied access to his car. A week later ABF agreed to the owner’s request to have his mechanic remove the asbestos, but after completing the paperwork, permits and an inspection time, ABF decided that removing the parts in the storage depot might be unsafe and the permit was cancelled.

ABF first declined and then approved transport to Classic Gasoline, a collector car service center in Perth. ABF then again changed their mind and advised the car could only be moved to a certified asbestos removal center. After realizing there was no certified asbestos removal center that could do the work, ABF relented and permitted the car to be moved to Classic Gasoline. Paperwork recommenced, but at the last-minute Quarantine intervened, advising that the DKW could only be moved after it had been spray cleaned, but that it could only be spray cleaned after the asbestos was removed. As the owner wrote, “Catch 22 meets Franz Kafka”.

Back to plan “A”

Everyone agreed to go back to plan “A”, a removal time was again booked only to have someone at ABF again demand the work be done by an asbestos specialist. After yet more calls, e-mails and negotiations it was finally agreed that ABF, the original inspector, two mechanics from Classic Gasoline and the owner would inspect the car, agree to the work to be done and the owner and mechanics would then be allowed to complete the work at dockside. Thanks to the DKW’s small engine, it was lifted out without a hoist for disassembly. After even more paperwork, ABF certified the removed parts and arranged their seizure and destruction. The additional storage fees were $3,000, the mechanics charged $1,500 and the shipping agents were another $1,500 plus the cost of finding and replacing the seized parts, so almost equal to the original $7,000 purchase price. The local ABF did not issue any fines for the non-compliant parts.

The good news is that most new cars, world-wide, were asbestos free by 1999, but the bad news is that virtually all cars built before 1999 have asbestos-based components. All imported cars must obtain an asbestos test for their vehicles BEFORE they are shipped to Australia, but few countries have certified collector car asbestos inspectors. If asbestos is identified, it must be removed before the vehicle is shipped and owners must confirm the vehicle is asbestos free. The ABF doesn’t have the time, space and manpower to inspect every car, but no-one should take the risk of being caught up in the costs and damage of a random inspection, the possible seizure and destruction of the car plus the reality of fines because the seized parts were not zero asbestos compliant.

The Australian Imported Motor Vehicle Industry Association is lobbying the ABF to standardize a consistent inspection regime, but the extra red tape, inspection costs and uncertainty have slowed imports to a crawl. Additionally, the new rules apply to imports AND exports, which will be another yet-to-be-defined learning curve!

But wait, it gets more complicated

If the asbestos-related import/export restrictions were not enough, the Australian government is also ramping efforts to keep what are described as “culturally significant automobiles” in Australia and is considering the seizure of any vehicle deemed to have been “illegally” exported since 1987. Based on the UNESCO convention in trafficking of illicit cultural property, the proposed legislation would include any vehicle designed by an Australian, built in Australia, altered in Australia, or strongly associated with an Australian. To quote from the proposed legislation, “the best way of promoting the regime would be a couple of high profile actions for the seizure and return of forfeit cultural material”. If you have a car with a significant Australia history, be nervous.

All of this should be a warning of future potential problems for the collector car community. If there’s a way to go overboard on regulations, the government, any government, seems to find a way to make life overtly complicated. While Australia is currently the epicenter of Monty-Pythonesque import (and export) restrictions, others will follow. China, for instance, simply forbids the import of classic cars, Norway wants to eliminate ALL (new and used) gas and diesel powered cars by 2025, while India and Germany want to eliminate all new gas and diesel cars by 2030 and France by 2040. Our children will live in a very different world.

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[SeventhSon]

I'm not doubting your veracity Bernie, but this is unreal! What has happened to Australia? Are they going the way of Canada? Uber hypersensitivity to perceived health threats combined with ultra adherence to the letter of the law has created a nightmare it sounds like. My father, who hated this type of government meddling and overreach, was stationed for a year or more in Australia during WWII. I can only imagine what he would think of this foolishness.

[oldcar]

Even closer to home, a friend has recently had a parcel from the (Lagonda) Rapier Register "Spares'in the UK impounded by the Australian Customs Service, because it contained among other things some exhaust flange gaskets. This was eventually released but only after he had obtained a signed statement from the Club Spares that they were not "New old Stock" but newly manufactured and did not contain asbestos.

 

Bj.

Edited August 12, 2017 by oldcar (see edit history)

[retirednow]

This is utter insanity 

[oldcar]

Unfortunately, it is just the world we live in!

[hidden_hunter]

It's interesting that these stories are popping up, it really doesn't seem to be being applied consistently either as I know of other stuff in the same time frame that has passed through without any problems. 

[oldcar]

Hello I am in Melbourne too. The friend with the exhaust mainfold gaskets lives in Berwick. I have no reason to doubt him. In the past (three or four years ago) I bought gaskets from Olsen's in the USA without any problem. Right now I do not want to buy any on the basis of, "Try it and see what happens". I have asked Olsens if they can supply a signed statement that their Gaskets do not contain Asbestos. I have not received any answer. I have not ordered the Gasket set they supply for the Studebaker. 

 

End of story.

 

Bj

[Stude17]

As an Australian I totally support the actions of the Australian Border Force in enforcing the removal of asbestos from vehicles  imported into Australia.  Should have been happening since 2003 but better late then never. 

[DavidAU]

I don't know where you live Stude17 but nearly every pre 1960's suburb in this country has hundreds / thousands of houses with asbestos sheeting on the roofs and a percentage of those have internal sheeting as well.  Probably more asbestos in one suburb than 10,000,000 cars.       I haven't seen anyone walking around or driving with a mask on when they are in these areas.   Do you?         You might say that encapsulated in cement the fibres in this sheeting are  pretty inert but every time the wind blows, a little multiplied by 10000 fibres gets spread around the neighbourhood.   

 

The extreme measures that Border force are taking are nothing but an exercise in a show of power.   Unfortunately what it does mean is that no one outside Australia will be bringing any cars in for International rallies etc. They could not afford the risk that some jumped up official will want to chop the wiring loom out of their $2,000,000 car on the off chance it has asbestos in it.  It also means that no Australians will be taking their cars overseas for rallies because of the possible ramifications when they bring the car back home.  Imagine a Silver Ghost being ripped apart by some twit because it MIGHT have some asbestos in it.

 

By the way Bernie,  I had a delivery of engine gaskets from the States yesterday.  No asbestos in them but they weren't checked either so I wouldn't worry too much about it.    On the other hand however, a friend of mine recently ordered an electric fuel pump from England and when it arrived in customs in Australia they immediately sent it back in case it was contaminated.  He wasn't notified until the supplier contacted him wanting to know what was going on.  Second time they sent it , it came straight through.

Edited August 16, 2017 by DavidAU
spelling (see edit history)

[A. Ballard 35R]

Wow, and I thought the EPA had gone overboard. I feel sorry for my Aussie friends who had planned on owning a steam car from overseas. 

[dictator27]

This is a major knee jerk reaction to an overblown issue.  There are health concerns, but like anything else when properly monitored these are minimized.  I worked with a mechanic who did nothing but brakes for 40+ years. Aside from mild emphysema he had no health problems.  He never used a mask and always used water to clean the brakes he worked on.

 

Ninety-two percent of the worlds asbestos came from the Cassiar mine in northern British Columbia over a 40 year period ( 1952-92).  One of my neighbours worked in that mine for 25 years with no health protection of any kind.  He is as healthy as a person in his mid 70's can be.  He has a car but walks everywhere - I've seen him as much as 4 miles from home.  

 

Not defending asbestos in any way.  It needs to be taken seriously, but Australia's reaction is over the top.

 

Terry

[John_S_in_Penna]

High-regulation countries, as much as we love

our brethren overseas, hurt themselves when

they go overboard.  Business fails to thrive.

How often does the rest of the world see appliances

made in England or cars made in France?

Regretfully, not very often.  Thankfully, I don't think

Australia has come close that stage.

 

The world developed a great fear of asbestos, a 

product used effectively for decades.  No one wants

to see asbestos miners sickened, or rivers running brown

with pollution, but there has to be the common sense

that DavidAU espouses. 

 

No one ever died from an asbestos gasket.

Edited September 1, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Stude17]

8 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

High-regulation countries, as much as we love

our brethren overseas, hurt themselves when

they go overboard.  Business fails to thrive.

How often does the rest of the world see appliances

made in England or cars made in France?

Regretfully, not very often.  Thankfully, I don't think

Australia hasn't come close that stage.

 

The world developed a great fear of asbestos, a 

product used effectively for decades.  No one wants

to see asbestos miners sickened, or rivers running brown

with pollution, but there has to be the common sense

that DavidAU espouses. 

 

No one ever died from an asbestos gasket.

 

So no one ever died from an asbestos gasket.  Perhaps you might read this article:

 

https://www.asbestos.com/products/general/asbestos-gaskets.php

[MCHinson]

Stude17,

 

I have very limited and I think reasonable concern about having worked many years in the basement of an old building with lots of fine dust that we did not know was related to asbestos pipe insulation way back then. That fact does makes me respect asbestos, but does not make me paranoid about it.  

 

I think the point that John was attempting to make is that the amount of asbestos in a typical antique car is not of significant risk for exposure to the level that would be of risk of any illness to anyone. Exposure over a large number of years to airborne asbestos fibers in an asbestos manufacturing or maintenance related industy before the danger was well known clearly has caused health problems for people.

 

Your souce of information comes from a group that advocates for those folks. Their motivation is money. I would say that their information is out of context for exposure to anybody from the small amount of asbestos materials in an antique car. The term "ambulance chasers" sort of comes to mind when I read that site. 

From the asbestos.com about us.... "We are a for-profit company. The site is owned by Asbestos.com, LLC, based in Orlando and sponsored by Weitz & Luxenberg, P.C., a New York law firm. We think we do good work, much like other for-profit companies: Walt Disney World, Starbucks, UPS and Whole Foods. We like the fact that we’re a business because we feel it gives us more opportunities to help people. Although we do understand the stigma that sometimes comes with a for-profit company, we are proud of the work we do and we trust the feedback of our users."

[mike6024]

Apparently in the US not all uses of asbestos are banned. There was a lawsuit that overturned some portions of the EPA ban.

 

http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/us-federal-bans-asbestos

 

Examples of asbestos-containing products not banned
The manufacture, importation, processing and distribution in commerce of these products, as well as some others not listed, are not banned.
Cement corrugated sheet
Cement flat sheet
Clothing
Pipeline wrap
Roofing felt
Vinyl floor tile
Cement shingle
Millboard
Cement pipe
Automatic transmission components
Clutch facings
Friction materials
Disk brake pads
Drum brake linings
Brake blocks
Gaskets
Non-roofing coatings
Roof coatings

 

Banned products and uses
Under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA): Banned Manufacture, Importation, Processing and Distribution in Commerce of Certain Asbestos-containing Products
Corrugated paper
Rollboard
Commercial paper
Specialty paper
Flooring felt
In addition, the regulation continues to ban the use of asbestos in products that have not historically contained asbestos, otherwise referred to as “new uses” of asbestos.
Top of Page
Under the Clean Air Act (CAA): Banned Asbestos-containing Uses
Asbestos pipe insulation and asbestos block insulation on facility components, such as boilers and hot water tanks, if the materials are either pre-formed (molded) and friable or wet-applied and friable after drying.
Spray-applied surfacing asbestos-containing materials
Spray-on application of materials containing more than 1% asbestos to buildings, structures, pipes, and conduits unless certain conditions specified under 40 CFR 61, Subpart M are met.
Top of Page
Under the Consumer Product Safety Act (Consumer Product Safety Commission): Banned Products
Asbestos in artificial fireplace embers and wall patching compounds

 

Regulatory history of asbestos bans
In 1973, EPA banned spray-applied surfacing asbestos-containing material for fireproofing/insulating purposes. See National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) at 40 CFR Part 61, Subpart M
In 1975, EPA banned installation of asbestos pipe insulation and asbestos block insulation on facility components, such as boilers and hot water tanks, if the materials are either pre-formed (molded) and friable or wet-applied and friable after drying. See National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) at 40 CFR Part 61, Subpart M
In 1978, EPA banned spray-applied surfacing materials for purposes not already banned. See National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) at 40 CFR Part 61, Subpart M
In 1977, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) banned the use of asbestos in artificial fireplace embers and wall patching compounds. (See 16 CFR Part 1305 and 16 CFR 1304)
In 1989, the EPA issued a final rule under Section 6 of Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) banning most asbestos-containing products. However, in 1991, this rule was vacated and remanded by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. As a result, most of the original ban on the manufacture, importation, processing, or distribution in commerce for the majority of the asbestos-containing products originally covered in the 1989 final rule was overturned.
See 40 CFR 763 Subpart I.

Asbestos Ban and Phase-Out Federal Register notices
Asbestos-containing products that remain banned
Examples of Asbestos-containing products not banned (i.e, products no longer subject to the 1989 TSCA ban because it was overturned)
In 1990, EPA prohibited spray-on application of materials containing more than 1% asbestos to buildings, structures, pipes, and conduits unless certain conditions specified. See National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP) at 40 CFR 61, Subpart M are met.

Edited September 1, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[keninman]

Meanwhile back here in Indiana, Anderson to be exact, you know the US city where many of the  Delco-Remy and Guide Lamp parts were made. Almost the entire Madison County government offices, courts etc. are going to have to relocate while the asbestos is removed from the government center building that was completed in 1973. They needed HVAC work in the building and the company that inspected complained their employees had been exposed to asbestos. No company will touch the system until all of the asbestos has been removed. 

[oldcar]

So much of all this is nonsense. Asbestos in buildings etc is absolutely safe until some idiot disturbs it, starts pulling it out or tries to remove it. 

There is far more of a problem once it has been exposed. The problem is not with the asbestos but with the clouds of dust created by ham-fisted workers dragging it out and pulling things to pieces.

 

There was a saying popular with our grand parents. "Let sleeping dogs lie."

 

Bj.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Are really various governments agencies so stupid? There should be somebody saying loud: "Asbestos first"!

[MCHinson]

3 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Are really various governments agencies so stupid?

 

Unfortunately, Yes.