Cars That Made America

[Steve Moskowitz]

https://news.classiccars.com/cars-made-america-opens-history-channels-car-week/?utm_source=ClassicCars.com+Newsletter&utm_campaign=d00deb3caa-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_08_07&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_59461abf0d-d00deb3caa-163075745

 

I know there will be the usually complaints about mistakes etc. but hey they are going to talk about cars all week!  That is a good thing!

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Looks like it would be fun to watch. I do not have cable, can it be viewed online?

[victorialynn2]

13 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Looks like it would be fun to watch. I do not have cable, can it be viewed online?

You could always check the history channel's website after it airs. I'm not sure if you can access it or not, but worth a try!

 

[1937hd45]

Previews look good, sure beats watching another burn out in a Mustang "restored' in seven days. Bob

[padgett]

Just hope it is not too revisionist. Might ask Bill Collins who first suggested dropping a 389 in the new Tempest.

[Durant Mike]

Earlier this year I was contacted by the Archivist/research specialist for information on William C. Durant and the Durant cars of later years. Put them in touch with our club's historian who is very knowledgeable about Durant and his history with GM as well as Durant Motors Inc.  Provided some photographs from our museum web site too.  I agree with Steve, we can't be too critical since any time that channel now talks about something old, other than crab fishing in Alaska and other non-historical content, it's a good thing.  I'm sure they will take liberties since the production company is in NYC and I'm sure not "car people"

[padgett]

Wonder if they will show Billy's bowling alley. My DVR is set for the series.

Edited August 10, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[Durant Mike]

Don't know,  that's what he owned at the end of his life, wanted to have a chain of bowling alleys for everyone to enjoy.  I'm always fascinated about Billy Durant's career. I've read all the books on him and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for starting General Motors. The fame usually goes to Sloan who was hired by Billy and took over after him.  It will be interesting to see how the paint him and Louis Chevrolet, who was a flamboyant French race car driver that Durant brought into the fold, but later separated from the Chevrolet Motors Corporation over disagreements over what type of car to make the "Chevrolet" as well as other things. 

[Marty Roth]

Any time they focus on cars and car people it is a positive event for the hobby, rather than de-constructing for "personal taste" with a Five Day Restoration resulting in a Quickie Profit fallacy.

 

My DVR is set to record the event.

[DAVE A]

I'm looking forward to watching.   I hope they don't distort history too much

[Terry Bond]

Yes, this will be great, and comes at the perfect time. Home in the recliner with a broken leg. Ain't going anywhere for a while so get to catch on all the old car shows available. Like Bob says tho, in some cases id rather watch the commercials, so this will be welcome addition.

Terry

[Ed Luddy]

I'm looking forward to the program. However there will likely be some obvious mistakes that a true afficenado will be able to spot. Just remember folks, it produced to meet LCD( Lowest Common Denominator) to attract the maximim viewership, so try not to throw any wrenchs at the TV!!

[Bob Hill]

I watched the first episode last night.  It was okay overall - not the best I have seen but certainly not the worst.  It was interesting but I could have done without the commentary by the NASCAR drivers though.    

 

Bob

[Steve Moskowitz]

Well gang, they did not disappoint on the entertainment but they sure did reaffirm the constant lack of research shows like this do in regards to content.  There were so many errors in the first part that I was screaming at the TV set!  I especially liked the 1904 Curved Dash Olds being shown as a prototype by Edsel Ford of a car to replace the Model "T"!!!  Researching facts is not that hard and the editing mixing up eras was hard to take. 

[Bob Hill]

5 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Well gang, they did not disappoint on the entertainment but they sure did reaffirm the constant lack of research shows like this do in regards to content.  There were so many errors in the first part that I was screaming at the TV set!  I especially liked the 1904 Curved Dash Olds being shown as a prototype by Edsel Ford of a car to replace the Model "T"!!!  Researching facts is not that hard and the editing mixing up eras was hard to take. 

Yea I thought that was funny in a sad way.  Nothing like going backwards to get your Model T replacement LOL.

 

I think most of these documentaries are done on a tight budget and they are more interested in getting the show on the air that spending time to make sure it is accurate

 

Bob

[Restorer32]

Yea, overall a good show but they sure did take liberties with their time line.

[padgett]

Ah, we can post again, not sure what happened but finally just called headquarters.

Note: a single point failure that takes out everything including error reporting is not a good thing.

 

Figured what was going on when even before the credits they showed a European steam locomotive ( buffers instead of cow catcher & several times later).

 

Usual Discover channel constant repetition.

 

Then could easily tell the good guys from the bad guys by facial expressions. Seemed like rich=bad, poor=good. Suspect Walter P. will win in the end.

 

Glad they at least mentioned the Selden Patent (but not the ALAM which owned the patent after 1899 - guess that was too complicated).

 

Definitely worth watching but need a history book to understand what happened when since time is mutable.

[Bhigdog]

What the Hell. I enjoyed it. When I want  a dry  history lesson I read a book. I especially liked the way they portrayed Louis Chevrolet. The French, go figure...........Bob

[benjamin j]

who needs a TV show when I have you guys.  the Kaiser-Frazer Corporation bailout 44 million US tax dollars should be part of this TV show

[padgett]

Swiss ? Wonder if Fronty Fords will get a mention. Agree I enjoyed it but kept hitting glitches: have to suspend all knowledge of what was really going on (hard for me) and ignore the "rest of the story" - e.g. what became Cadillac. Does worry me that some will take this as gospel instead of a PBI.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

52 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Well gang, they did not disappoint on the entertainment but they sure did reaffirm the constant lack of research shows like this do in regards to content.  There were so many errors in the first part that I was screaming at the TV set!  I especially liked the 1904 Curved Dash Olds being shown as a prototype by Edsel Ford of a car to replace the Model "T"!!!  Researching facts is not that hard and the editing mixing up eras was hard to take. 

So I do have to ask, with peoples  concern that interest in vintage/classic/collector cars shrinking. And with clubs like this having such a vast knowledge of the different makes/models/history of the automobile. Would it not be in the best interest of this club to reach out to production companies, and work with them on future projects. Would that not draw positive attention to this club/library/show/swap meet? Not to mention getting history right. Having credits coming back to the AACA would help. 

[Terry Bond]

I started to post a comment right after the opening scene which was subtitled as 1927 but showed a 1931 Model A.  Then I realized it was just entertainment and watched. realizing that with limited time and such a large scope to cover yet keep itinteresting to the masses, it met their goal of  being entertaining.  I'm sure for the general public it helped with some understanding of the various twists and turns in the early automobile industry.  It's always too bad the cars don't match the time-line.  Steve- I'm surprised your TV survived - my sore broken leg jumped as soon as I saw the curved dash Olds covered up, being uses as a prop for Edsell's "prototype" replacement for the Model T.  I wonder who their "historical" person was and how they went about obtaining the vehicles for use in the production?  The 1915 T they had used as the "earliest" Model T was a  cute tour car but think they could have easily done better with the early History of the breed.

Will continue watching, and  still have plenty of popcorn, although the Dr says no beer just yet, I'll handle that during the re-runs. 

 

For strict "Shut up and Eat your Popcorn" value I'd give it a C+ with rather poor/stiff acting being a disappointment.

For historical value and accuracy - we'll let's have some more popcorn!

 

Terry

[padgett]

Helping such sounds like fun to me but then am not an ex drip, just know how and when to ask questions. (Usually spend most of my time in posts doing research).

 

Was a series on PBS years ago called "Connections". That was history presented with the people and times that led to major advances (standing on the shoulders of giants). Was fascinating & guess that is the standard I hold docuhistories to.

 

Do wish they would spend more time on the forces all coming together and spreading apart in many different directions than repeating the same shot of someone in a strange tie grimacing at a line of cars five or six times. Guess that is one way to lower production costs.

 

ps I like ascots but those cravats were just strange and no celluloid collars ?

Edited August 14, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Xander, all I can tell you is that we have in fact reached out to many major channels and offered them free research by our library.  You know the saying you can lead a horse.....

[Bhigdog]

We're like doctors watching a doctor show or pilots watching an aviation flick. You have remember that "we" are not the target audience per se. The shows producers have only one goal in mind. That's to make money. To make that money it's imperative that they entertain the widest audience possible and that they stick around long enough to give the hucksters a crack at them. I do think they have succeeded. If the audience gets hit with factual over spray, good. If not, so what, just as long as they stick around long enough to be talked into buying something.

Personally I liked the show. But then I'm rather easily entertained.....................Bob

[padgett]

Kinda like "inspired by a true story" without the disclaimer.

 

ps my version of the horse joke involves growing plants but is decidedly not PC.

[Restorer32]

I'll watch until the first mention of the Tucker Convertible prototype then I'm out.

[prewar40]

It wasn't just the mistakes that I found upsetting; it was what they didn't say.  Henry Ford applied to pay the trust that held the Selden patent and they insulted him and he got POed.  That's when he said he will never give them a dime.

The true story is more interesting than what they presented.  Steve posted " we have in fact reached out to many major channels and offered them free research by our library. "  An organization that calls itself the History Channel

should do the research or change their name.

[Bob Hill]

If i were going to get so upset over a TV show I would consider just not watching.  True, it is not all that historically correct, they used the wrong cars, etc., etc. but ti is for entertainment first and foremost regardless of what channel it is on.  In the big scheme of life, this show is not worth getting upset over.

 

Bob

[39BuickEight]

Anytime a viewer watches anything involving a topic they know a lot about, they will be disappointed if they expect it to be accurate and enlightening. 

 

As mentioned, we are not the target audience.

 

That said, if it has an old car in it, I'm watching.

[bill pritchett]

Terry,

I bet you have mixed feelings about breaking your leg to get to see this series.  Hope you heal soon.

[Luv2Wrench]

First, I'm not in the least bit upset.  I'm a little disappointed and a little confused. Why are we not the target market?  Are we too smart?  Too knowledgeable?  Not brain dead enough?

 

History does not need to be changed to be made interesting.  An accurate portrayal of the early car industry would exciting all by itself... it doesn't need idiot looking actors staring into the camera with made up drama faces.   There seems to be some decent content in the program so my guess is that the editing/production process is to blame.  One would think that something shown on the History Channel would place more emphasis history instead of making up drama.  Real history is dramatic and learning is exciting.  

[victorialynn2]

As someone who really doesn't know anything about the history of the automobile, I can tell you that I enjoyed it very much. 

 

I was surprised that Ford was so ruthless, but was fascinated that all the players (Chevrolet, Dodge Brothers, Chrystler, etc. were all involved so early. Lots of details like I didn't know Edsel was Ford's son, for example I found interesting. Also my father grew up either in or near Dearborn Heights and my aunts and uncles live there, Sterling Heights, etc, so the history of that area was very interesting to me as well. 

 

I wouldn't know if the cars were not the right ages or other details, but I learned a lot and am very excited to see the rest. 

[padgett]

Just take everything you "learned" with a grain of thought. Did expect them to at least get the period clothing right.

 

May be easier to understand that the early "majors" were all born between 1840 and 1880 when life and morals in the US were quite different. Further though the sequences were mixed, most of the action took place between 1905 and 1915 (though a number of photos and references were later & the Ford/Winton race was in 1901).

 

Does amuse me that the company Ford abandoned (leaving his investors with the stick) was bought by Henry Leland, became Cadillac, & brought mass production to a science with the use of interchangeable parts. Without that Ford's production line would not have worked. Of course the River Rouge plant was not planned until 1917 & finished in 1928 but that was not important. Nor was the fact (though maybe in part two) was that Edsel Ford had a big hand in the Model A, Mercury, and Lincoln.

 

ps target demographics are easy, just watch the commercials.

[1937hd45]

Good to see they reused some cars from the Men That Made America or whatever that series was, MERCER Toy Tonneau and Steavens Duryea. Loved that '15 T with the red Dayton wire wheels. I'll let the automobile era incorrect deal slide, Joe Average is clueless and more than likely enjoyed the show. BIGGEST SCREWUP in the show? If you taped it replay it watch for the seen in a fancy restaurant, camera glides over fancy table setting, fine china and flatware, TWO forks on the right side of the plate. They didn't have to rent any automobiles to screw up that detail did they? Bob

[Terry Bond]

2 hours ago, bill pritchett said:

Terry,

I bet you have mixed feelings about breaking your leg to get to see this series.  Hope you heal soon.

Thanks Bill,  appreciate the thoughts.  The TV show was good entertainment and that was needed at the moment. This first week has required a lot of adjustment here, and some innovation as well, so the diversion was a pleasant one.  A cold beer would have been a bonus, but all things in time.

Terry

[Terry Bond]

2 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

As someone who really doesn't know anything about the history of the automobile, I can tell you that I enjoyed it very much. 

 

I was surprised that Ford was so ruthless, but was fascinated that all the players (Chevrolet, Dodge Brothers, Chrystler, etc. were all involved so early. Lots of details like I didn't know Edsel was Ford's son, for example I found interesting. Also my father grew up either in or near Dearborn Heights and my aunts and uncles live there, Sterling Heights, etc, so the history of that area was very interesting to me as well. 

 

I wouldn't know if the cars were not the right ages or other details, but I learned a lot and am very excited to see the rest. 

 History of the automobile is a very involved and fascinating subject, even taught as college courses these days.   I was thinking about Hershey  and am looking for your announcement that you've decided to visit for a couple of days to meet some of the folks in person that you've met on theforums.  Next step is to get you to our Annual Meeting in Philadelphia in Feb so you can partake of some of the interesting seminars about automotive history.

 

Terry

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

 

I was surprised that Ford was so ruthless,

 

The show barely touched on the relentless toll the never stopping line took on the workers. My Dad worked for Ford on the assembly line  in Detroit during the 30's and the rein of Harry Bennett. He said if someone needed to use the bathroom the floor boss would need to find a fill in worker. If he couldn't find one he'd tell the guy "piss your pants" and he meant it. The floor boss could and would fire guys for any reason. My father swore he would NEVER buy a Ford car and never ever did.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

2 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

 History of the automobile is a very involved and fascinating subject, even taught as college courses these days.   I was thinking about Hershey  and am looking for your announcement that you've decided to visit for a couple of days to meet some of the folks in person that you've met on theforums.  Next step is to get you to our Annual Meeting in Philadelphia in Feb so you can partake of some of the interesting seminars about automotive history.

 

Terry

Terry, I doubt I will make it. I am not inclined to go alone and I have a hard time getting my friends to even go to car shows. They will go for a cruise in the '57, but don't share my interest in cars as a rule. I did join AACA a while back and love the magazine. It's too bad there isn't a bigger presence for the club in Texas or Oregon.

 

I really do exist though. I have met Jack M. LOL

[victorialynn2]

1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

 

The show barely touched on the relentless toll the never stopping line took on the workers. My Dad worked for Ford on the assembly line  in Detroit during the 30's and the rein of Harry Bennett. He said if someone needed to use the bathroom the floor boss would need to find a fill in worker. If he couldn't find one he'd tell the guy "piss your pants" and he meant it. The floor boss could and would fire guys for any reason. My father swore he would NEVER buy a Ford car and never ever did.

Yikes. they at least did make much better than average pay, correct?