Red Riviera Bob

63 Riviera AC vent doors opening and closing

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Gents, we always want the best job possible so our old cars continue to perform the way they were intended to work.  I'm the first to choose the best solution.  Example: when my manual control water valve stopped working there were no more manual control valves to be had. A named expert from the ROA recommended using a vacuum water control valve and gave instructions on how to install on my 63 Riv. I followed the experts instructions. I found the vacuum control valve a fine choice and a good solution. 

On the other hand I fixed a 63 Riv wheel cover that was rusted out pretty good with JB weld. Painted the inside of the wheel cover with POR 15. The wheel cover is on my car to this day and works good. ( now I have spare parts to rebuild the wheel cover). Now, the JB weld was half baked b/c there were other mechanical solutions  that were much better, but I didn't know about rebuilding hubcaps.

 

in 83 I lost a significant installation of new electronic accounting systems that was interfaced to mechanical meters. I didn't know about RFI then that caused the system to not work right. I took back the system and lost the installation. The same accounting system was installed in another state and the technician wrapped aluminum foil around the cable leads and the installation was successful. Wrapping aluminum foil around cables to shield from RFI? Half assed to say the least, but the installation was a success. I've seen some right comical half baked repairs that got the job done, because there were no other choices.

RRB

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KongaMan    125

On the assumption that you're responding to my comment about half-assery, I'll explain...

 

It's important to understand what the STV does and how it works.  In a nutshell, it varies the evaporator pressure, which, in turn, changes the temperature of the outlet air.  It is controlled by the vacuum modulator attached to the temperature control on the dash: the less vacuum at the valve, the lower the evaporator pressure and the lower the outlet air temperature.  Push the control all the way down, the vacuum to the valve drops to 0, the evaporator pressure drops, the air gets colder.  Slide the control back up, the vacuum to the valve rises, the evaporator pressure rises, the air gets warmer.

 

If the STV is replaced by a cycling switch, it's entirely different.  In that setup, the evaporator pressure is always at its lowest setting; the outlet temperature is always as cold as it will go.  The system is cycled according to feedback from a new temperature sensor on the evaporator.  This is how it works: the system runs fullout until the sensor says it's too cold, then the compressor shuts off.  When the sensor indicates it has warmed up, the compressor kicks on again. And so on.  What you may have noticed is that you have no control over this: your temperature control is inoperative.  You cannot change the temperature at the outlets.  If you want it a little bit warmer (e.g.dehumidifiing on a cool, foggy evening ), you're SOL.

 

IOW, you now have a cruder, less capable system.  IMHO, it's far better to rebuild your STV (if that was problem) and keep the original functionality than to replace it with inferior components.

 

NB: IIRC, the STV on the Riviera works differently from the STV used on other contemporary full-size Buicks. For those cars, higher vacuum at the valve lowers the evaporator pressure.  This is why the the Riviera AC can be such a PITA to fix; it has some unique parts.

Edited by KongaMan (see edit history)

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60FlatTop    1,894

It is interesting that the nearest city on my map is in another country. Cornell University has a deep water cooling system in Seneca Lake where the water is always 35 degrees.

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60FlatTop    1,894
58 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

because there were no other choices.

RRB

 

Should end "within the paradigm of the application. That is the dangerous part, a little knowledge.

 

In 1983 an electronic accounting application would have lived up to the definition of college level learning, the conceptual use of knowledge from one field to another. I added conceptual from my own 50 years of experience. Details are often overlooked in exchange for commitment.

 

I started using communication circuits in 1974 with token ring technology and some fiber optics. Unshielded cable was fine for binary points. And they were the majority. The cost was about $500 per point compared to analog points at about $2,000 per. Analog used current loops with resistance sensors and were always installed with shielded (tin foil) wire. There just weren't many and may not have been obvious to the application investigator.

 

On the AC, follow the book and make it as original as possible. Back to my personal  experience, my greatest successes have come from recognizing and removing "improvements".

 

 

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41 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

Should end "within the paradigm of the application. That is the dangerous part, a little knowledge.

 

In 1983 an electronic accounting application would have lived up to the definition of college level learning, the conceptual use of knowledge from one field to another. I added conceptual from my own 50 years of experience. Details are often overlooked in exchange for commitment.

 

I started using communication circuits in 1974 with token ring technology and some fiber optics. Unshielded cable was fine for binary points. And they were the majority. The cost was about $500 per point compared to analog points at about $2,000 per. Analog used current loops with resistance sensors and were always installed with shielded (tin foil) wire. There just weren't many and may not have been obvious to the application investigator.

 

On the AC, follow the book and make it as original as possible. Back to my personal  experience, my greatest successes have come from recognizing and removing "improvements".

 

 

Bernie, The application met all specifications according to sales marketing pros. The folk in the engineering neglected to tell the sales marketing managers to be aware of radio frequency interference. We were not told about this RFI stuff. Had I known the RFI was something I should know about I'd have called Scotty to the bridge and asked for his two cents worth.The local tech, a friend of mine didn't know if he was on horseback or on foot on this installation. When the installation failed to perform as it was purported to perform and we took the stuff back the local rep did not get a raise that year and I was charged about 6k to my account. Ouch.

After that lesson I made doubly certain all i's  were dotted and the t's were crossed on future scope of application. Please remember, I was schooled on how to read, write, and cypher. The trained folks got all the electronics stuff on how to wrap wires with tin foil. I probably would have been better off learning about electricity than reading Camus.👨‍🔧

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60FlatTop    1,894

Looks like the trained folks saved the day for the pros and schooled literate.

 

I read Asimov and Wells, Vonnegut for fun.

 

Back to the AC, how much is the R-12 going for these days? I'm still working off a 30 pounder I bought at a buck a pound. Lasts a long time when there is no compressor on your car.

 

There could have been quite a market in reclaimed/recycled refrigerants with the right equipment : http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5189889.html

 

 

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Bill Stoneberg    371

R 12  It depends on where you shop.  Was at an A/C getting R22 for my home AC and they had a 30 LB container of R12 for $ 1400.   Ebey goes about $800.   I still have the remains of 1 30 lb container and a full container that I bought for $ 400 few years ago. It also lasts long when you fix the leaks.

I have a friend who uses computer duster in his R12 system. Cools well and at 3 bucks a can it is cheap. His car takes 5 cans.  It one of those Buick's with the A/C in the trunk, can you imagine how much R 12 it would take ?  My 1960 takes 5 lbs if empty.

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21 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Looks like the trained folks saved the day for the pros and schooled literate.

 

I read Asimov and Wells, Vonnegut for fun.

 

Back to the AC, how much is the R-12 going for these days? I'm still working off a 30 pounder I bought at a buck a pound. Lasts a long time when there is no compressor on your car.

 

There could have been quite a market in reclaimed/recycled refrigerants with the right equipment : http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5189889.html

 

 

Bernie, those educated engineers saved my bacon plenty.

 

the average for R12 on eBay is $45.-$50. A pound. My friend and pro mechanic handed me two 30 lb partial canisters of R12. He said go ahead and use it. I returned the the 2 30lb containers after I used 3.5lbs and gave him  enough cash that made him smile.

i have 2-12oz. Cans I paid $75.00 with shipping.

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On 8/18/2017 at 0:00 PM, KongaMan said:

 

Wise decision.  While one might rationalize a switch to R134A, there's no doubt that you'll get better performance with R12.  Replacing the STV with a cycling switch is just half-assery.

I was convinced to stay with the original design and as many OEM parts as possible. AC is important to me and I cannot afford to be without a reliable system. Use best parts, best mechanics, and stay with original design operation.

RRB

 

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