1915 C - 37

[ROD W]

Very  tempted by this 1915  C - 37  tourer advertised on Horseless  Carriage  Club,    but am really hanging out for a 1913.   By Murphy,s Law,   I know if I got this one,   then in a few months  a 1913 would come along.   But still very tempted.   Might give the fellow a ring and get more photo,s.  

[Larry Schramm]

Looks like an interesting project. 

 

Like you, I was looking for a '11-'14 car so I could go touring and then out of the sky a 1908 Model F showed up in my garage.  It is in pieces like the car above but more.

 

I was told that I was lucky buying it like that because I do not need to take it apart.  Someone already did that work for me.

[50jetback]

Rod - are you aware of this notice issued by Australian Border Protection 7 days ago ( 10/07/2017 )

 

20170726135050810.pdf

 

[ROD W]

Larry,   I feel the same,  why pay the extra cost of an assembled car when it has to be dismantled anyway.  There,s just the problem of missing parts  and the added complication of transporting a car in parts.   All the best with your 1908.

 

Stuart,  I did see that in the last Restored Cars.   Probably anything that has the slightest chance of containing asbestos  can be  removed  before  leaving the U.S.

 such as   electrical wiring,  seating,  brake linings,  clutch plate

Edited July 27, 2017 by ROD W (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

Is this a new thing? I thought this was the case for some time?

[50jetback]

47 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

Is this a new thing? I thought this was the case for some time?

 

Not new but is now being enforced by Border Protection - this information from an Australian   classic car importer gives all the detail
 

 

For those interested in Imported Cars & Asbestos, the import of cars and parts into Australia has very serious issues to contend with & it has tremendous ramifications for the importation of classic cars into this country. Graeme is referring to my case and I thank him and Michael for their comments.
The situation is nothing like Graeme has described, it is simply put a legislation that has been in place since 2003 but not enforced. The Australian Border Force conducted Asbestos inspection trials for motor cars in Victoria in October of 2016. I have been in touch with the recipients of those trials and they went badly and very expensively.
On March 6 the legislation was enforced Australia-wide, this whilst my three cars were en-route to Australia. I had two cars, a 65 Mustang & a 66 Shelby in one container going to Sydney and a 63 Ferrari going to Brisbane. Both containers were redlined one from the US was redlined for Asbestos the other ultimately for quarantine as it arrived from New Caledonia.
As I had shipped these before the enforcement of this legislation I had few choices offered to me as I was the first to experience this in Brisbane and few others had done so in Sydney. I could find few Customs agents able to offer any advice based on personal experiences. Without going into chapter & verse on this forum I was instructed by my broker that Customs instructions were for an inspection for Asbestos in particular "brakes, gaskets, exhaust and any other hazardous or suspicious materials"
The Australian Border Force does not carry out any inspections whatsoever, they advise Customs agents that the importer must engage an Asbestos Assessor from a list provided by the ABF on their web site of NATA approved Asbestos specialists. I was not able to conduct a search of these specialists due to a health issue & my customs agents rang 5 specialists, 4 of whom did not want the job as they did not do cars the 5th took the job. Since he was hired by my agent he was working for them & ABF do not become involved until a report indicates a positive asbestos result. My inspection was carried out on April 4. The Bond store where the cars were located disallowed my presence due to Custom’s regulations which I might add has been changed since. I was instructed by my agents to provide two mechanics, tools, trolley jack, axle stands, safety clothing & masks. In addition to the asbestos inspector there were the two mechanics, a representative from Customs/Australian Border Force and a representative from the Bond store.

My Asbestos inspector I believe had never inspected a motor car prior to his inspection of my two cars. During his 8 hour inspection of my cars he took 18 samples from both cars. Professional asbestos inspectors use a number of sampling methods, two examples are the destructive sample method & the swab method. He chose the destructive sample method despite the pleas of my mechanics not to damage the cars.

From 18 samples 8 returned positive and went beyond the expected brakes, clutch & exhausts.
The result of this inspection dated April 5, 2017 I believe goes far beyond the intent of the legislation relating to asbestos in motor vehicles. My rights to care & responsibility for my cars as an owner were not protected by either the ABF/ Customs official, the Bond store nor the Asbestos inspector whose destructive sampling methods vandalized my Shelby in particular despite the pleas of my mechanics.

I then applied via a Section 71E of the 1901 Customs Act for movement to a properly equipped workshop for further asbestos removal via a newly appointed professional licenced assessor, removalist and hygienists whom I engaged!

This inspection was carried per custom’s instructions using the positive results gleaned from the first inspection and material removed returned to the Bond store as per customs instructions. There are no processes or procedures in place & each ABF or customs official has a different view of what samples ought to be taken from cars and where or how the asbestos waste once removed should be disposed of.

I finally received ABF clearance on Thursday May 4 one month after arrival having endured two Asbestos inspections, one with the addition of a licenced asbestos removalist and hygienists, storage, transport and mechanics, etc at a cost of some $14,000 plus substantial damage to the 1966 Shelby GT 350 of some $12,000.

As the ABF’s instructions were entirely open ended I had good legal advice during this ordeal and also had conversations with the ABF which though helpful did not change matters. I have now lodged a complaint with head office of the ABF and am including various members of Parliament and the Senate in that though I hold little hope there as those same members have shown little interest in the past in the matter of the LCT now protecting no car industry in this country.

For those thinking of importing cars particularly restored cars let alone highly original cars like my Shelby GT 350 there is much to be fearful of. The Asbestos content of these cars is very high & in places most enthusiasts would not guess. For those interested in Italian cars I would not suggest shipping a car unless it were checked thoroughly. For early Italian cars such as those beginning with an F or M the content is extremely high & the remedy to remove it would be an economic impossibility unless a restoration was contemplated & then I do not know if the ABF would countenance that.

Terry Healy

 

This, along with a number of other similar intercepts around Australian ports and the complaints that have followed seem to have let to the Australian Border Force Notice of only 7 days ago. That document seems even more draconian if you have an in-depth look at it.  

 

[26-25Buick]

Terry,

I feel for you. It's a stressful enough time waiting to get all the clearances here without adding yet another approval. From a previous import I knew the import approval  document does have the statement banning the importing of asbestos containing material however I hadn't heard that they implementing testing. Our experience has been very different to yours as for our import in Dec from MO there was no request for this and although it took 2 weeks, yesterday they cleared another car for me, our 1912 Cadillac import from OH. It required the car to be inspected 3 times with multiple washes and vacuuming for "dirt and mud" but it got through. In my case the onus was on the importer to get the approvals as I bought the cars in as landed packages so I don't really know what he had to do, but Im pretty sure it was nothing like your experience. 

[Larry Schramm]

Terry, What pain. 

 

It would appear that common sense has been overridden with a particular law.  In the real world what amount of harm would asbestos pose in a head gasket on a vintage car as an example?

Edited July 27, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)