for sale Gramma's Wildcat Rivieras

[Guest Martin Bourque]

Hi 

Gramma had 2 '65 Wildcat Rivieras.

Gramps splurged- bought one for her and one for himself.

He died and she parked em in the shed and never let anyone touch em.

That was over 30 years ago.

Said the rattlers would protect them.

You could say she had a strong will.

She passed last week and now I get to sort em out.

They look like they WERE in pretty good shape- dust, guano, and black widows notwithstanding.

 

Can you all help me to know what to look for in trying to figure out if they are worth finding a new home for?

And how to find an enthusiastic Riviera Reviver looking for double trouble?

 

The VIN and mileage are easy, but it seems like there are a lot of other more important features/models/conditions/etc. that make a big difference.

They are in the Sierra Foothills of Cali.

 

Any help?

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Martin Bourque (see edit history)

[Chimera]

Well, got any pictures to upload?

 

Engine compartment metal firewall tag has some data also.

 

Tell us more 8)

 

Gran Sport vs non-gran sport. Engine codes. Options. Condition.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Chimera (see edit history)

[Schmiddy]

Hi Martin

 

Depending on the condition and all the Informations Gabriel (Chimera) wrote above ( + matching number etc.),  I would eventually know someone who could be interested. Please send us as much detailed photos as possible (specially of the codes - see pic below), so we could have a better overview of these cars.

Thx & best regards,

Schmiddy  

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Schmiddy (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Everyone needs to remember that the data plate only covers options that were installed at the Fisher Body plant.  Things like tilt wheel, cornering lamps, cruise control, Twi-light sentinel, Guidematic, etc. will not be stamped on the plate.  

 

Pictures of the Engine Code and Engine serial number as well as the VIN will be of great help.  Many details of door panels, dash, steering column, seats, trunk, and if possible get pictures of the underneath side of the car to include exhaust, suspension, rocker panels and floor boards.  The more pictures you post the better off you'll be.  

 

Ed

[Guest Martin Bourque]

You guys are great!

Thanks for decoding the data plate.
I'll get some photos next week and look for the engine codes and serial numbers.

See what we find.

Thanks again,

[Carbuff2]

First Go to the local Hardware store, purchase two large inexpensive drop cloths, and several Insect, varmit type bombs.... cover the car and set of the bug killer under the cover, let it set for a couple days and then you have rid yourself of most spiders, insects, mice etc so you can inspect your cars better and safer. Good luck Paul

[Guest Martin Bourque]

Thanks for this tip.

It is really on point.

 

[whitewatersky]

sounds like Raiders of the Lost Ark....

 

have fun !

[Guest Martin Bourque]

Hi Riviera Fans,

I got to have a closer look this weekend.

So they are '63s not '65s and attached is the id plate.

Cream colored exteriors (Beige on the PO)  

Leather interiors one "Saddle" interior the other one with black interior.

 

Both in really good condition:

Orginal everything

Paint good (minor chips on one like from gravel) not oxidized or peeling ect.

No Accidents

Interiors are amazing

No Rust

Miles: One 50K the other 75K

Arrached are a couple videos and a photo of the ID plate for the Saddle interior.

 

Any advice on what they are worth?

Thanks

 

 

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior Engine.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior Engine.m4v

[PWB]

Haggerty #3 Good Condition 1963 Riviera Base

 

$15,800.

 

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1963-Buick-Riviera

 

Condition rating scale:

 

https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/Classifications-and-Conditions

 

[ 1967 base #3 valued $900 more  ]

Edited August 20, 2017 by PWB (see edit history)

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, Martin Bourque said:

Hi Riviera Fans,

I got to have a closer look this weekend.

So they are '63s not '65s and attached is the id plate.

Cream colored exteriors (Beige on the PO)  

Leather interiors one "Saddle" interior the other one with black interior.

 

Both in really good condition:

Orginal everything

Paint good (minor chips on one like from gravel) not oxidized or peeling ect.

No Accidents

Interiors are amazing

No Rust

Miles: One 50K the other 75K

Arrached are a couple videos and a photo of the ID plate for the Saddle interior.

 

Any advice on what they are worth?

Thanks

 

 

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior Engine.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior Engine.m4v

The picture you posted of the engine is a casting number for a head. Same casting number used for quite a few years. Here's a link that shows you where to find those engine I'D numbers that will be unique to your car.  The engine serial code should match your VIN.  The Production Code tells year and cubic inches, as well as h.p. and carburetion and compression ratio. We can decode a picture for you.

 

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/ident_engine_where.php

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, Martin Bourque said:

Hi Riviera Fans,

I got to have a closer look this weekend.

So they are '63s not '65s and attached is the id plate.

Cream colored exteriors (Beige on the PO)  

Leather interiors one "Saddle" interior the other one with black interior.

 

Both in really good condition:

Orginal everything

Paint good (minor chips on one like from gravel) not oxidized or peeling ect.

No Accidents

Interiors are amazing

No Rust

Miles: One 50K the other 75K

Arrached are a couple videos and a photo of the ID plate for the Saddle interior.

 

Any advice on what they are worth?

Thanks

 

 

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior.m4v

1963 Riviera Saddle Interior Engine.m4v

1963 Riviera #2 Black Interior Engine.m4v

You'll notice that some of the code numbers from the data plate coincide with the invoice. Code numbers on the data plate are for options built into the car at the fisher body plant.  Code numbers not on the data plate but on the invoice are options installed at the final assembly plant after being shipped from Fisher Body - both in Flint the, MI.  On the data plate 03C means that the car was built in the third week - C - of the third month, March - 03.  The FB (Fisher Body) number is sequential and represents the 25,587th Riviera built out of 40,000 for 1963.  798 is the color of the interior, and RR is the paint code.  

[rivgs]

On the Saddle interior car, the  "radar" looking thing is the Guidematic- an automatic headlight dimmer. It is listed on the Vehicle purchase order you provided a picture of.

[RivNut]

The car with the saddle interior is well appointed with options, but it looks like the salesman skipped over the section for wheel covers.  Rarely do you see a car with this many options, especially with the guidematic and cornering lights, be delivered with the base wheel cover.  There were two other options available for '63.  WB stands for Wonder Bar radio.  There's a bar across the top of the radio, and a foot button under the dash.  Depress either one and the radio will seek the next clear station. The other part of the bar on the face of the radio is for fine tuning what distance you want the radio to seek.  Without having my reference handy, I think that the D4 radio was the Wonder Bar AM radio with power antenna.  The power antenna was part of the radio option and not a stand alone option as far as I've been able to tell. Another rare factory option is the installation of the seat belts. But what puzzles me is that if this were a factory installed option it would be stamped on the data plate.  

 

Just for grins.  Something you may find out, if you search, is that the base price for a 1963 Riviera was $4,333.00, not $4535.00 as shown on the invoice.  Just a couple of hundred more in someone's pocket.  That's $1,587.00 in 2017 dollars.  

[Sleep]

Thanks RivNut! I was wondering what that other floor button was on my floor board! I have the Wonder Bar radio on my 63 too! Someone crossed the wires though so my courtesy light switch operates my antennae and the antennae does my courtesy lights.

 

I've got lap seat belts in the front of mine but none in the rear. Didn't know that was an option? I'm loving this forum and getting insight on my car.

[RivNut]

6 minutes ago, Sleep said:

Thanks RivNut! I was wondering what that other floor button was on my floor board! I have the Wonder Bar radio on my 63 too! Someone crossed the wires though so my courtesy light switch operates my antennae and the antennae does my courtesy lights.

 

I've got lap seat belts in the front of mine but none in the rear. Didn't know that was an option? I'm loving this forum and getting insight on my car.

That should be a pretty easy fix.  There are a few screws that hold that upper panel under the dash.  Just take them out.  The panel should drop low enough to allow you to swap the switches.  Don't swap just the wires, the switches themselves are different.  The switches are each held in with two small screws.  Should be an easy fix.  Someone at sometime put the switches in the wrong slots.  

 

Ed

 

PS - unhook your battery first, you don't want to be creating any shorts under the dash.

[Zimm63]

I hope you plan to keep one of them for yourself.  Pretty cool to have your Grandparent's car.

 

Been trying to get my hands on my Grandfathers old pickup.  Its owned by a distant cousin now and has been sittting. In a leaky shed for a couple decades.  Not even sure its savable at thes point, but the guy won't let it go.

 

 

[Sleep]

Will do. I also need to flip my battery. I've read other posts where you recommend swapping the + terminal to the inboard side. I think I'll have to fab up a battery box. Mine has no holder and is wedged into place with a small scrap of wood:) I've gotta get my upper control arms off tomorrow and get the darned lca bushing out of the frame. Probably gonna blast upper and and lower and paint 'em up.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Sleep said:

Will do. I also need to flip my battery. I've read other posts where you recommend swapping the + terminal to the inboard side. I think I'll have to fab up a battery box. Mine has no holder and is wedged into place with a small scrap of wood:) I've gotta get my upper control arms off tomorrow and get the darned lca bushing out of the frame. Probably gonna blast upper and and lower and paint 'em up.

http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=6608

 

http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=6607

 

Here you go. No way should your battery be unsecured.

[Guest Martin Bourque]

4 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

I hope you plan to keep one of them for yourself.  Pretty cool to have your Grandparent's car.

 

Been trying to get my hands on my Grandfathers old pickup.  Its owned by a distant cousin now and has been sittting. In a leaky shed for a couple decades.  Not even sure its savable at thes point, but the guy won't let it go.

 

 

Wish I could. I have found a new appreciation for these two.

Sadly I don't have the time, skill, nor the resources to do them justice.

[Guest Martin Bourque]

19 hours ago, RivNut said:

The car with the saddle interior is well appointed with options, but it looks like the salesman skipped over the section for wheel covers.  Rarely do you see a car with this many options, especially with the guidematic and cornering lights, be delivered with the base wheel cover.  There were two other options available for '63.  WB stands for Wonder Bar radio.  There's a bar across the top of the radio, and a foot button under the dash.  Depress either one and the radio will seek the next clear station. The other part of the bar on the face of the radio is for fine tuning what distance you want the radio to seek.  Without having my reference handy, I think that the D4 radio was the Wonder Bar AM radio with power antenna.  The power antenna was part of the radio option and not a stand alone option as far as I've been able to tell. Another rare factory option is the installation of the seat belts. But what puzzles me is that if this were a factory installed option it would be stamped on the data plate.  

 

Just for grins.  Something you may find out, if you search, is that the base price for a 1963 Riviera was $4,333.00, not $4535.00 as shown on the invoice.  Just a couple of hundred more in someone's pocket.  That's $1,587.00 in 2017 dollars.  

I know, the whole order is a little off- it seemed like the PO sheet was a mash-up of standard items and extras. I also noticed they ordered this before any had been produced- would they even have had a showroom model to look at? 

[Guest Martin Bourque]

I really appreciate all the insights, info, and comments.

 

Sadly, I assume they will need a fair amount of resuscitating which I am ill equipped to take on.

What would you all suggest in terms of next steps towards finding them a good owner?
I also assume that even with their needs they carry good value. 

Any guesses at their current value as a pair?

 

Thanks again

[RivNut]

24 minutes ago, Martin Bourque said:

I know, the whole order is a little off- it seemed like the PO sheet was a mash-up of standard items and extras. I also noticed they ordered this before any had been produced- would they even have had a showroom model to look at? 

The first one were produced in late August or at the beginning of September in 1962.  The dates that I see on the forms are all in 1963. The dealerships would have had plenty of experience by this time.  The data plate shows that more than 25,000 were produced prior to this one.  There were a number of items that were standard on a Riviera that were options on other models.  More pictures of the car would support what's on the car as compared to what's on the order sheet. What discrepancies do you see?

[Guest Martin Bourque]

3 minutes ago, RivNut said:

The first one were produced in late August or at the beginning of September in 1962.  The dates that I see on the forms are all in 1963. The dealerships would have had plenty of experience by this time.  The data plate shows that more than 25,000 were produced prior to this one.  There were a number of items that were standard on a Riviera that were options on other models.  More pictures of the car would support what's on the car as compared to what's on the order sheet. What discrepancies do you see?

It just looked like the dealer listed a number of standard items as if they are extras- like were the seat belts really extras? I think what is listed is accurate just that the dealer may have charged for some standard items...and not listed others.

[RivNut]

Seat belts were an extra cost item in 63.  There is nothing that I see on the PO that is being charged for that was not an extra cost option.  What other discrepancies do you think you see?

[Guest Martin Bourque]

That is good. What about power steering was that standard? I think it has power steering but I did not see it on the list.

Thanks,

[RivNut]

Here's a link to all of the items that were considered options in 1963.  I've not compared each one penny for penny but from what I can tell they're pretty close.

 

The basic Riviera for 1963 had no tilt wheel, no tinted glass, crank windows, manually adjusted seats, and no radio.  To adjust the mirror on the driver's door, you'd have to open the window and reach out and adjust it.  What it did have that were options on other cars were the 325 hp V8, bucket seats, floor shift, automatic transmission, clock, dual exhaust, power steering, power brakes, back up lights, and a couple of other things that you wouldn't even consider in this era of automobiles.   Glare proof mirror, parking brake signal light, padded dash, trunk light 2 speed wipers with washer.

 

RIVIERA

basic #1:  D1-S7-T1

basic #2:  D4-I6-J2-S7-T1-Z4

 The items above were "recommeded" to the dealers for cars they did not special order.  The basic #1  group was an AM radio, remote mirror, and white wall tires. Basic #2 added the Wonderbar Radio, tinted windshield, power seat, and remote trunk release.

 

Here's the link to all of the available options.

https://rivowners.org/members-only/opts_prices/1963.html

 

All of this information would be available to study you as a member of the ROA. 

 

[1965rivgs]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

Here's a link to all of the items that were considered options in 1963.  I've not compared each one penny for penny but from what I can tell they're pretty close.

 

The basic Riviera for 1963 had no tilt wheel, no tinted glass, crank windows, manually adjusted seats, and no radio.  To adjust the mirror on the driver's door, you'd have to open the window and reach out and adjust it.  What it did have that were options on other cars were the 325 hp V8, bucket seats, floor shift, automatic transmission, clock, dual exhaust, power steering, power brakes, back up lights, and a couple of other things that you wouldn't even consider in this era of automobiles.   Glare proof mirror, parking brake signal light, padded dash, trunk light 2 speed wipers with washer.

 

RIVIERA

basic #1:  D1-S7-T1

basic #2:  D4-I6-J2-S7-T1-Z4

 The items above were "recommeded" to the dealers for cars they did not special order.  The basic #1  group was an AM radio, remote mirror, and white wall tires. Basic #2 added the Wonderbar Radio, tinted windshield, power seat, and remote trunk release.

 

Here's the link to all of the available options.

https://rivowners.org/members-only/opts_prices/1963.html

 

All of this information would be available to study you as a member of the ROA. 

 

Ed,

  Just an FYI, any outside rear view mirror was extra cost and not included in the base price. The remote controlled mirror was available factory installed but the manual mirror was a dealer only item.

Tom

[Guest Martin Bourque]

After reviewing a bunch of listings on Auto Trader Classics I'm thinking 10K for both.

Does that sound fair?

[RivNut]

You're going to have everyone try to beat you down in price, especially if you're not really well educated about the car (s) and they're part of an estate.  Might as well start really high and work down to what you'll take.  These cars are notorious for rust in certain places so be prepared for a beat down on that.  "IF" I were you, I'd do whatever to see if I could get them running first. Or at least get the Beige one running and sell the black one as a parts car to go with it.  You haven't told us much about the black one.  What's the story on it?