Hazdaz Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hey guys, I've only had my '64 for a few weeks and I love it, but I have a few issues I'm trying to solve. One of them is that I am getting water in the trunk and I'm not quite sure how it's getting in there. We had a rain storm yesterday and before it started, I threw a bunch of newspaper in there so I could narrow down where the water might be coming from. I had pretty much the entire perimeter covered with newsprint. Was thinking maybe the seal around the trunk lid. Maybe from the rear glass area. After the storm, I popped the trunk and none of the newsprint were wet, but I still had some water on the bottom of the trunk. Now I'm kind of at a loss as to where it might be coming from because I was really expecting to see at least some of these newsprint to be wet. Is there a "known" place that these cars leak from? Any past experience? I'd love to hear some suggestions. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 The seal around the trunk is more than likely your culprit. The trim below the rear window is one. The trim piece above the rear fender needs to be re-sealed, but usually that lets water in under the rear seat. Remove & re-seal. Very common is the window channel is rotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Most leak from the rear window over time. It is common for rust to form under the stainless molding, particularly in both corners. Another source is the ribbed decorative molding that fits between the rear window and the trunk lid. The sealer around the mounting studs can dry out and begin to leak. The trunk weather strip can be a source as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 The proper way to diagnose trunk leaks is to climb in the trunk with a flashlight and have someone shut the lid and run water on the back window, all along the edge of the trunk lid and along the sides of the roof where the quarter panel moldings are and watch and see where the water is coming in. I will make this observation.........if you plan on letting your Riviera sit out in the rain all the time, you are in for a lot of grief. It needs to be in a garage and driven on nice days or you are going to be battling rust around the rear window non stop. My Dad's 65 Riviera was very very rarely driven in the rain and sat in the garage all the time and the back window channel rusted out in 1970, getting water in the trunk and ruining the rear package tray. The back window channel on these cars was a horrible design flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I have a '69 Chevrolet Caprice that had the same issues. It was discovered that the lower back window channel had been previously bondo'd to fill in metal rot in those areas. The bondo had deteriated under the window trim and was allowing water to leak in the trunk in the lower corners of the channel. I had to get a new channel hand fabricated because no one reproduces the panel between the upper trunk opening and lower window channel for B Body GM vehicles, especially the 4 door hard tops. After the rusted out areas were repaired, the leakage issue was resolved. I don't have a garage to park my vehicles in so I use the best waterproof car covers available from CarCovers.com. For about $180 you get a fully water proof car cover that has a very soft underside lining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm having the same issue, even after replacing the trunk seal. I'm concerned that my issue is the rear window. I have bad rust at the top of the windshield, I suspect the rear is the same. Not looking forward to pulling that trim off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mckenzie Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I just finished a re and re on my rear window. I installed new clips and screws (The ledge that window fits had already been repaired )I found one more leak during a flood test that turned out to be a small leak through the screw threads on one fastener.I couldn`t access the screw as it was between the glass and the ledge. I marked the screw location on the glass with a grease pencil,and cut an access hole below the window on the inside on the package tray lip on the top below the window.I was able to seal the screw with Sika - Flex Marine sealant, no more leak.replaced a disc to fill the access hole that will be behind the package tray. I would suggest sealing the backside of all molding that you can access .water can seep in the smallest places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Water not only seeps, it gathers. The angle of the window channel sits so that water will stand in the channel. When you wash your car be sure to use compressed air to blow the channel dry. Water will also wick its way into the trunk floor causing it to rust. The body mount under the trunk is shaped like a cup. It will, after time, gather dirt in the cup and the dirt will hold water. After some time, the trunk floor will begin to rust above those cups. Just remember that rust never sleeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerage Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just doing rust repairs on my 63 rear screen area. Scott - can you recommend the screws and clips you used? thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mckenzie Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 4 hours ago, powerage said: Just doing rust repairs on my 63 rear screen area. Scott - can you recommend the screws and clips you used? thanks Matt CARS old buick parts has them but I got mine from a local auto supply, they are a standard GM clip used on many cars for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mckenzie Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 8 hours ago, RivNut said: Water not only seeps, it gathers. The angle of the window channel sits so that water will stand in the channel. When you wash your car be sure to use compressed air to blow the channel dry. Water will also wick its way into the trunk floor causing it to rust. The body mount under the trunk is shaped like a cup. It will, after time, gather dirt in the cup and the dirt will hold water. After some time, the trunk floor will begin to rust above those cups. Just remember that rust never sleeps. https://www.google.ca/search?biw=911&bih=441&tbm=isch&q=rust+never+sleeps+poster&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdhJ2li6fVAhVhiVQKHeRlDb0QhyYIJg#imgdii=v8qz0SvqepZcZM:&imgrc=PXotzsRD-uIvFM: Turns out `ol Neil Young was right on the money,I had to replace my trunk floor because of those rusted cups. That`s a good tip Ed, I will now blow down that area after I wash my car, Thanks ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I never wash my old cars........I dust them off with a duster after every use or wipe them down with a damp microtowel if needed, but I would never run a water hose on any of them. My Riviera has had this treatment since 1967......thus no rust ever. And of course I don't drive them in the rain or let them sit out in the rain. That's what late model Beaters are for! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riv2x4 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Last time my 64 was wet war coming home after 2003 BCA meet in Flint. Got caught in a downpour. Keep it covered, use a duster too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 8:54 AM, Seafoam65 said: The proper way to diagnose trunk leaks is to climb in the trunk with a flashlight and have someone shut the lid and run I think that is about as far as any of my short attention span friends would get on the instructions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 A few people have suggested I climb into the trunk, and it was something I was considering as well, but I wonder if I can take one of the rear seats out instead and peek Into the trunk instead. I haven't looked into it yet, but does anyone know how easy is it to take the rear seats out, and if that would open up a window into the trunk. BTW, I appreciate the suggestions you guys have made. I've been working on other issues with the car so far, but if this weekend cooperates, I'd like to investigate the trunk issue further then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneybeauchamp Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 This is what you get to look at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Hazdaz said: A few people have suggested I climb into the trunk, and it was something I was considering as well, but I wonder if I can take one of the rear seats out instead and peek Into the trunk instead. I haven't looked into it yet, but does anyone know how easy is it to take the rear seats out, and if that would open up a window into the trunk. BTW, I appreciate the suggestions you guys have made. I've been working on other issues with the car so far, but if this weekend cooperates, I'd like to investigate the trunk issue further then. You are suggesting exchanging a five minute job for a job taking 20 times as long. Could it be that you are afraid the wife will close the trunk lid on you and leave it closed? I had a wife like that once! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 "My lawyer got me 30X what the insurance company offered when my remote batteries failed." Call 666-66-66, Darwin, Styx. & Stone your reprehensible legal team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Reminds me of friends and trunks. Lock your wife and your dog in the trunk of your car. Wait an hour and let them out. See who's most glad to see you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 Seafoam65- well I actually have been considering doing what the person above you has done with the dynamat material, so it was kind of kill two birds with one stone type of deal. Also, as big as the trunk is, I just don't think I could fit in it what with the hump over the rear axle and all. And the GF loves the car, so not too worried about getting locked in by her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I'm a big guy and i climb in trunks quite often to find water leaks at my shop on cars with much smaller trunks than your Riviera. Just climb in .....takes three minutes.......Git R Done as Larry the Cable Guy would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DualQuadDave Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Riv's can leak also from the b-pillar chrome spears, especially if the car had been painted. From factory, they have 3 square holes that had clips with mastic sealer in them. The 4th hole had a stud with a nut, also with sealer. 99% of even restored Riv's do not put the clips back, much less seal up the holes. It will leak there under medium to heavy water soak. Back window is usually way worse, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted July 31, 2017 Author Share Posted July 31, 2017 Quote On 7/30/2017 at 0:09 AM, DualQuadDave said: Riv's can leak also from the b-pillar chrome spears, especially if the car had been painted. From factory, they have 3 square holes that had clips with mastic sealer in them. The 4th hole had a stud with a nut, also with sealer. 99% of even restored Riv's do not put the clips back, much less seal up the holes. It will leak there under medium to heavy water soak. Back window is usually way worse, though. I'm trying to visualize where you are talking about? I assume this is at the base where it meets the rear fender? My cars is fairly well de-chromed. Can I access or at least examine this from the trunk or backseat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) My leak was found by having a man much smaller and younger climb in the trunk with a good flashlight while I sprayed a water hose on the trunk. The water was coming in around the tail lights! The prior owners neglected to put in the tail light gasket mounts. I bought a pair and the leak stopped. Edited August 6, 2017 by Red Riviera Bob a stab at humor- the man in the closed trunk needed a flashlight (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Yes Sir, the tail light mounting rubber gasket is hidden between the tail light bracket ( the bracket holds the entire red lenses and bulb socket box assembly ) and the back of the car. When the stock tail light assembly is tightened up from INSIDE THE TRUNK the gasket goes out of sight. You might try taking a spray bottle full of water and spraying the taillight area with the trunk open and see if it leaks. I did not easily see where the leak was coming from until my man climbed in the trunk with theflashlight and I puta hose on the car. i can send some pics if you think it will help you. Red Riviera Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Bob, I've taken the taillights off before (for another issue) but never thought about the gasket issue. I got rain in the forecast for tomorrow, so I'll see if any water comes in. I've already sealed the gasket around the trunk lid so I'm taking small steps and hopefully eliminating possible causes one at a time. The taillight gasket is definitely one I'll look into. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Spray soapy water on it then turn a fan on it and look for bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 7/29/2017 at 1:39 PM, Seafoam65 said: I'm a big guy and i climb in trunks quite often to find water leaks at my shop on cars with much smaller trunks than your Riviera. Just climb in .....takes three minutes.......Git R Done as Larry the Cable Guy would say. Seafoam, I agree. Although sometimes if you HAVE a person handy and willing to help I take that route. I'm big and when I had to crawl on the floorboard to reach the fuse block on my 63 I was cramped, but I got 'er done! Red Riviera Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 8/1/2017 at 10:26 PM, Hazdaz said: Bob, I've taken the taillights off before (for another issue) but never thought about the gasket issue. I got rain in the forecast for tomorrow, so I'll see if any water comes in. I've already sealed the gasket around the trunk lid so I'm taking small steps and hopefully eliminating possible causes one at a time. The taillight gasket is definitely one I'll look into. Thanks. Hazdaz, did you get the rain you expected and see if it was leaking around the tail lights? No joke, you need a tight seal around the tail light area to keep the water out on the 63 dechromed or not. Red Riviera Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I had forgotten I tested for water leaks around the tail lights this past spring. Just the other day, I had found wadded up paper towels under the tail lights with obvious signs they had been wet. Looks like new tail light gaskets are in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 7/26/2017 at 10:18 AM, Seafoam65 said: I never wash my old cars........I dust them off with a duster after every use or wipe them down with a damp microtowel if needed, but I would never run a water hose on any of them. My Riviera has had this treatment since 1967......thus no rust ever. And of course I don't drive them in the rain or let them sit out in the rain. That's what late model Beaters are for! Mr Seafoam, excellent idea you've provided regarding dusting off the car and wiping down with a damp microtowel. I'm an old dog, but new at the Best way to take of my 1963 Red Riviera. What you say makes plenty good sense. Red Riviera Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 9:19 PM, jsgun said: I had forgotten I tested for water leaks around the tail lights this past spring. Just the other day, I had found wadded up paper towels under the tail lights with obvious signs they had been wet. Looks like new tail light gaskets are in order. Steve, as a heads up there is another gasket that goes around the lenses that seats inside the tail light mount holder. So, you have two sets of gaskets you need. I got mine from one of the big suppliers of Riviera parts- oh, it was Clarks Corvair who were tiny bit less expensive than the other guys, but not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Bob, I took out the taillights and the gaskets look very good actually. Still, I siliconed up a bead around the mating surfaces on the housing so that should be sealed up no problem. (I let the silicone mostly dry before I reassembled everything so it's essentially acting as a gasket that should come off fairly easily if I need to). I didn't seal the lens yet though. That's tomorrow's project. But we did get some nasty torrential rain the other day and some water came in, but not as much as before. I'm thinking there might be multiple small leak and the steps I've done have eliminated at least one or two of them. I was also busy last night and tore apart the interior pieces of the car (minus the seats) and took out the rear shelf. There was some surface rust on the back shelf but nothing terrible. I sprayed that down already with Rust-Oleum and will see how that looks tonight. Because all the trim around the inside of the rear window was removed I could see that it doesn't look like water is coming in from there. At least not into the cabin. The gasket around the glass looked very good and intact. Before I reassembled the interior, I want to remove the exterior trim around the window but I couldn't find the steps of how to safely remove them in my body shop manual. Maybe I missed it. The search goes on,but as always I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 6:00 AM, Hazdaz said: Hey guys, I've only had my '64 for a few weeks and I love it, but I have a few issues I'm trying to solve. One of them is that I am getting water in the trunk and I'm not quite sure how it's getting in there. We had a rain storm yesterday and before it started, I threw a bunch of newspaper in there so I could narrow down where the water might be coming from. I had pretty much the entire perimeter covered with newsprint. Was thinking maybe the seal around the trunk lid. Maybe from the rear glass area. After the storm, I popped the trunk and none of the newsprint were wet, but I still had some water on the bottom of the trunk. Now I'm kind of at a loss as to where it might be coming from because I was really expecting to see at least some of these newsprint to be wet. Is there a "known" place that these cars leak from? Any past experience? I'd love to hear some suggestions. Thanks for reading. On 7/27/2017 at 10:35 AM, RivNut said: Reminds me of friends and trunks. Lock your wife and your dog in the trunk of your car. Wait an hour and let them out. See who's most glad to see you. The joke among others , " You put your Mother In Law in the trunk, but never your guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 So guys, is there anything behind the striped trim behind the rear window trim? (See pic below) I got the rear window trim off and inspecting the gasket around the glass but I'd also like to make sure there are no holes underneath that trim. I tried lightly shoving a screwdriver underneath and it really didn't seem to move easily. I was also in the trunk earlier and I don't recall seeing any screws that might have been from the inside holding that trim piece on. How is it held in place and what is below it? Inquiring minds would love to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mckenzie Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Held on with 5 speed nuts. Go back in the trunk and look up for access holes. put a good seal around the studs and holes in the body to seal the trunk penetrations. I have to put this one back on when i finish the cut and buff of the paint . Good luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/7/2017 at 0:29 PM, Hazdaz said: Bob, I took out the taillights and the gaskets look very good actually. Still, I siliconed up a bead around the mating surfaces on the housing so that should be sealed up no problem. (I let the silicone mostly dry before I reassembled everything so it's essentially acting as a gasket that should come off fairly easily if I need to). I didn't seal the lens yet though. That's tomorrow's project. But we did get some nasty torrential rain the other day and some water came in, but not as much as before. I'm thinking there might be multiple small leak and the steps I've done have eliminated at least one or two of them. I was also busy last night and tore apart the interior pieces of the car (minus the seats) and took out the rear shelf. There was some surface rust on the back shelf but nothing terrible. I sprayed that down already with Rust-Oleum and will see how that looks tonight. Because all the trim around the inside of the rear window was removed I could see that it doesn't look like water is coming in from there. At least not into the cabin. The gasket around the glass looked very good and intact. Before I reassembled the interior, I want to remove the exterior trim around the window but I couldn't find the steps of how to safely remove them in my body shop manual. Maybe I missed it. The search goes on,but as always I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Do you have the official GM 63 Buick Body Shop manual? That particular manual is the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 I do have the Body Shop manual, actually. I had missed the section which had info about that bottom trim and only found it after I already took them off. I need to get the powertrain repair manual next. I re-chaulked the rear window per what the manual showed, so I'll be reinstalling the trim tonight, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Wow. I really thought I had this problem solved. Or at least narrowed down to one major leak area. Nope. So I had limited time to try this but I had previously siliconed up the perimeter of the rear glass. Came home and hit the rear half of the car with the hose, popped the trunk lid and there was water in the trunk. Ok, so I took some masking tape and taped the perimeter around the glass (the area I siliconed) and hit it with the hose again. Popped the trunk lid and again there was water. Taped the side chrome trim pieces (right over the rear fender hips). Hit it with the hose again, and once again water. Taped up around the trunk lid seam, and wouldn't you know it, once again, water in the trunk. So while the trunk lid, rear window and/or the side chrome trim might be letting in some amount of water, there is still some other larger leak. Now I know a little bit of water is coming in from the taillights, but this water is in toward the middle and rear of the trunk so I'm not counting any taillight leaks. I'm seriously floored right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Open the trunk lid, tape a paper towel between the hinged area, overlapping the panel behind the glass, and to the trunk lid. close and run water, see it it absorbs the water. Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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