Hemmings Motor Oil

[Brian_Heil]

https://www.hemmings.com/classic-oil

 

A car buddy asked me for an opinion on this oil so I did some investigation.

 

Did not see the API 'startburst' in the adds so I called Hemmings.

 

Got referred to Champions Brands, the manufacturer. 

 

I will not state an opinion, just the facts as I have them (we shall see if this passes the Mr. Earl posting protocol).

 

This oil is $9/quart.

 

It does not have an API rating.

 

The API rating/testing was not sought by the manufacturer, Champions Brands, per my discussion with them by phone.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Hopefully the folks over at the Oil Guy forum will test this and then we will find out if their claims on ZDDP are true...

 

Cheers, Dave

[Brian_Heil]

Cheaper ways to get ZDDP than $9/Qt and to a name brand and API rated oil you select.

[hidden_hunter]

That's more than I paid for my Penrite bottles which includes high Zinc

[Terry Wiegand]

Mr. Barnum was right - there's a sucker born every minute.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out in 'HOT' Doo Dah

[Bloo]

As I understand it, one cannot API certify an oil to a standard that is not current. Many hobbyists are clamoring for more zinc than the current standards allow. If you cannot certify to an old standard, that implies that any oil aimed at hobbyists who want more zinc would not be certified.

 

I have no experience with this particular oil.

[Brian_Heil]

36 minutes ago, Bloo said:

As I understand it, one cannot API certify an oil to a standard that is not current. Many hobbyists are clamoring for more zinc than the current standards allow. If you cannot certify to an old standard, that implies that any oil aimed at hobbyists who want more zinc would not be certified.

 

I have no experience with this particular oil.

 I see your point.  They could not certify because the oil is not SN because the Zink is too high to meet SN.  That would be the best case you could hope for.  But if that's the case, why not state it as such?

 

An API level of certification comes after passing a number of very specific and difficult tests that are costly to run and certify to.

 

Why not take a current oil that meets SN API Certification and then add Zink/ZDDP to some level above the SN concentration and state just that 'this is SN certified oil with the following modified total Zinc content of XXX' and sell it?  They don't do that.

 

After all, that is what many of us are doing by adding ZDDP 'concentrate' to our current SN certified oil.  Or buying 'diesel' SN oil with higher ZDDP.

 

The Zink 'poisons' catalytic converters, so state this oil is for use in vehicles not so equipped.  This is what they do on 'diesel' oils with higher Zink.

 

Not meeting any API rating is of concern to me.  You can purchase non detergent oil that meets something like SA or SB still, so as long as you state the rating and meet it, you can sell it.  That's sort of the point of the API system.

 

Here's an interesting link on API ratings and timeframes.

 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Labels.htm

 

9 bucks a quart, I need more info than they provided and I told my buddy the same.

[Spinneyhill]

If you want maximum zinc, use a CI-4 rated diesel oil. See http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html.

 

Then you have a tested and certified oil, you know what is in it and it has a name brand on it.

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Right, but as of now CI-4 is difficult to find, and now even CJ-4 is becoming scarce. It's CK-4 now, at least around here. If anybody knows where CI-4 can be obtained sing out. And recall that CI-4 must be the last spec listed, the later ones list CI-4 together with CJ-4 and CK-4, which just means that the CK-4 is backwards compatible with the CI-4.

 

Cheers, Dave

[Bloo]

6 hours ago, Brian_Heil said:

I see your point.  They could not certify because the oil is not SN because the Zink is too high to meet SN.  That would be the best case you could hope for.  But if that's the case, why not state it as such?

 

An API level of certification comes after passing a number of very specific and difficult tests that are costly to run and certify to.

 

Why not take a current oil that meets SN API Certification and then add Zink/ZDDP to some level above the SN concentration and state just that 'this is SN certified oil with the following modified total Zinc content of XXX' and sell it?  They don't do that.

 

After all, that is what many of us are doing by adding ZDDP 'concentrate' to our current SN certified oil.  Or buying 'diesel' SN oil with higher ZDDP.

 

The Zink 'poisons' catalytic converters, so state this oil is for use in vehicles not so equipped.  This is what they do on 'diesel' oils with higher Zink.

 

Not meeting any API rating is of concern to me.  You can purchase non detergent oil that meets something like SA or SB still, so as long as you state the rating and meet it, you can sell it.  That's sort of the point of the API system.

 

Here's an interesting link on API ratings and timeframes.

 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Labels.htm

 

9 bucks a quart, I need more info than they provided and I told my buddy the same.

 

Because, at least in some thread I read on bobistheoilguy, a thread I cant find right now, the API wont allow you to do any of those things.  SA just means "mineral oil and nothing else, so I guess you could probably do that.

 

I was just trying to figure out if Rotella 10w30, when the product names and labeling changed, still had 1200PPM zinc in it. The answer to that question was inconclusive. Apparently not. or maybe it does in 15w40 only? Or maybe not. Those guys over on bobistheoilguy send oil in for testing all the time. The answer is still not clear.

 

There are also some legality issues selling anything in the USA as motor oil that does not meet the latest certs.

 

Honestly you could go down this rabbit hole for weeks, maybe years or maybe never get out. It isn't even clear that more zinc is better. It is true that zinc was originally added as an anti-scuffing agent. If you add too much it can do more harm than good. The whole additive package may matter more. Lots of testing has been done, and there seem to be two camps. One camp thinks 1200ppm or so is necessary with high lift cams and stiff valvesprings. Another camp thinks that the total package of the additives and the oilstock itself is what matters, and there is no correlation to zddp level. Even more so if the oil in question is synthetic. Tests have been done that prove this. Tests have been done that prove the other side's point. Tests have been done that show adding zddp made the oil's performance worse.

 

To further confuse the issue, apparently there are "synthetic" oils for sale in the USA that would not be allowed to be called synthetic elsewhere in the world. Forums of course tend to be worldwide. Synthetic oils may need zddp less. But which ones?

 

On this forum, when many of our cars were made zddp was not in use yet anyway.

 

I have a couple of engines that had the camshafts go flat. I dump zddp additive in them now.

 

I was not defending, nor do I use any 9 dollar a quart oil.   I would rather have clean new oil than expensive oil. Old cars foul the oil quicker and need the oil changed a lot. Often expensive oil is justified by a longer change interval. I shy away from that.

[Brian_Heil]

Indeed, oil is a very complex issue.

 

BobistheOilGuy is the best site to search and review these topics in my opinion.  (I just wanted to get people looking and thinking about oil in general and a widely advertised oil as well.)

 

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

 

Relative to ZDDP levels and other questions.  I have found the name brand oil suppliers to be very helpful in providing what their content is when you call their technical support lines.  i.e., where are your levels, so I know what to add to get to the ZDDP level I desire?.

 

Also, API ratings are very tough.  If an oil meets SN and they state it, and has the API Starburst, it has met a multitude of tests and requirements.

 

I have roller lifters in my 1923 Buick, as do many of you, so I do not have the flat tappet/cam lobe contact stress issue related to ZDDP levels.  But I also own two small block Chevy vehicles with high lift cams, heavy springs, solid lifters etc.  For now, I use 20w50 SN in all three and supplement the more modern two with additional ZDDP.  I'm certain today's SN is multitudes better than the oil sold in the 1920's (and the 1960s too) and I have a high strength magnets in the pans of all 3 and change the oil long before 1000 miles (and have had to add oil several times during that 1000 miles on the 1923).

 

My other thought on oil is the GM 3.0L/3300/3800/3800SC/GNX Turbo engine families which I had a great deal to do with.  These engines were validated multiple times at 1200 hours at full load dyno testing on run-of-the-mill 10w30 Mobil (not Mobil 1) with an API rating of what was in place in the mid to late 1980s.  GM bought it by the rail tanker full as 'factory fill' and we validated with factory fill.  Why Mobil?  They gave GM the best price for the current API rating in effect.  I always think of how hard that oil worked in those engines with the manifolds and half the head glowing red and how I don't drive anywhere near that hard.