BCA Insurance discussion

[kgreen]

I understand that the Club is discussing an increase in insurance coverage type and limits.  I am curious to know the types of exposure that the club sees.  For instance:

 

• Does the club have any liability for a members travel to and from a sanctioned event either with or without their cars?
• Does the liability at a club sanctioned event consider trip and fall, car fire with injury to bystander or owner, or other injury?  I could only guess the variety of injuries.
• Is there liability for the Club events where cars are driven rather than just parked such as in a parade or possibly a race?
• How much liability does a hosting site expect to be covered by the Club.  That liability could be damage to rooms occupied by Club members, parking areas, etc?

 

I have never registered a car for any event (yet) but would I as well as other car owners be required to name the club as additional insured?  This question presupposes an example where a car fire occurred and caused injury (or worse) and/or property damage.  In the case of additional insured, would the club would be able to subrogate against the car owners insurance, thus reducing Club liability?

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I don't know much about insurance, but if the concern is fire, NEVER go to any event near Hollywood. The slightest spark around anything in that area will take out city blocks, send cars flying into the air, and flames billowing upward 20,000 feet.

Insurance on the east coast just has to carry less risk..

Bernie

[adoldfield]

Hi Ken

I am not an insurance expert, but I've talked to people who are .

But let me try to address a couple of your questions. The Board of Directors recently approved a new insurance carrier for liability for BCA events. Our overall liability increases from $2M to $9M. 

Our coverage very similar to what we've had with JC Taylor for years. In general terms, it provides liability insurance coverage should the BCA be sued for injuries/damage that happens at a BCA meet. Coverage includes the chapters. 

I cannot answer each of your questions specifically.

As for moving vs static: the new coverage does provide for coverage of two motorsports events that are official BCA (or chapter) events annually. Each motorsports event (drag racing, autocross, a track tour, etc) has to be approved in advance by the insurance company. 

I know this is pretty general. The coverage is designed to protect the club and members at official club events.

Thanks

Alan Oldfield

President, Buick Club of America

[NTX5467]

I feel it would be fair to say that the individual owner's personal insurance policies should cover their independent travel to and from an event.  If a particular vehicle causes a fire and related damage to other vehicles, the primary coverage would be on the offending vehicle's owner's policy.  In another club I'm in, we used to do a Road Rallye driving event on public roads . . . until the liability issue of the club being responsible if one of the entrants gets into a collision with another non-event vehicle, resulting in litigation against the club.  So due to the fear of the litigious climate from that earlier time, we stopped doing that event.  And, that's also when the "Acceptance" dialogue on the bottom of the entry form was changed.  If the entrant chose to, they could not sign the form or participate if they didn't agree with it.

 

To me, not an insurance industry person either, the primary policy coverage is that of the willing and voluntary participant in the event.  That would cover, for example, one car getting "out of gear" or rolling into another car, resulting in body damage.  Treat it as a normal vehicular accident would be treated.  If it was on private property, no different than a public street, I would think.  In some cases, you can "What if?" this subject to death with side issues of a particular scenario.  

 

Any public facility or car dealership with public access would have their own umbrella policy for unforeseen accidents by people on the property or "unmarked hazards" on the property.  Or they can request a Certificate of Insurance for the event's duration from the Chapter/BCA, which is normally done.

 

If one attends a motorsports event and is near the cars themselves, then a liability waiver must be signed in order to be in the particular areas of the event.  Driver or spectator.

 

It would appear reasonable that any orchestrating operatives of an event would check the event area for possible safety or liability issues, along with the owner of the property.  They would either repair the issue of significantly mark it so it would be avoided by participants.  Sometimes, even this level of execution doesn't always work.

 

In situations of mileage-limited antique vehicle personal insurance policies, the mileage limit issue can be dealt with by the policy owner and the policy issuer.

 

By observation, in regards to insurance, to me the best approach is "What happened?  Where did it happen?  When did it happen?  Who was involved?  What were the alleged damages?  Who's responsible for the damages?  And . . . who's going to pay for it?"  Common sense should prevail, if possible.  But that's just me.

 

NTX5467

Edited July 18, 2017 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[kgreen]

Thanks for your response Alan.  I'm not in the insurance business either and have to go through numerous explanations each year when I review and renew coverage for our companies.  I think people go to college for a degree in business with a specialty in insurance. 

 

NTX..., as far as common sense, reasonableness apply to loss and liability control, well there is a very vague relationship.  It's unfortunate but loss and liability control also require legal consideration in the age where people can and will claim a loss over something as simple as a hangnail.  I'm not a lawyer either, and I wish it was easier to understand.  I get your points and don't invalidate them, I just understand this to be a complex topic and hope that BCA business is protected as well as reasonably possible.

[JohnD1956]

As a layperson regarding insurance, please don't take these comments as binding. I also do not intend for them to seem cold to the OP's inquiry. 

 

Insurance is purchased  to protect the purchaser from loss, not anyone else from loss.  If someone's car caught fire at a BCA event, it would be the owners insurance that would protect the owner from loss.  The BCA insurance would protect the BCA from loss if someone got hurt during that fire, and the reason for that person getting hurt was determined to be the BCA's fault.  If someone's car caused damage to another persons car at a BCA meet or event, then the insurance for the offending vehicle should cover the damage for the damaged vehicle. However, should someone get hurt in this instance and it is determined to be the BCA's fault that caused the injury, then presumably the BCA insurance would protect the Club from the loss.

 

But insurance has many caveat's.  The scenarios for how someone got injured, and who caused the situation that resulted in the injury are so variable. That's why these things end up in court, which throws another level of insecurity into predicting the results and who is held responsible.  In any case, however, the BCA insurance would protect the BCA.

 

As far as the new insurance for the BCA, the old policy and new policy covered general liability and BCA officer liability.  The new insurance policy goes one step further and covers the BCA for two motor sports events per year.  The new policy also greatly increased the level of coverage for the BCA.  But the policy protects the BCA from loss to individuals, and not other individuals form their losses.

 

Once again, I am a layperson, and this is my understanding of the insurance. I defer to any industry experts.

 

[jscheib]

John,

 

I would just add to the second paragraph - if the fire spreads, it would be the owner of the car starting the original fire, could be responsible for any damage to other cars.  Depending on policy limits, the owners of the other cars would have responsibility, as well, but not enough coverage.  Again, hence the legal battle would begin.  Most of this would be between insurance companies. I am sure some would attempt to hold BCA, or any show, responsible; hence higher limits of BCA coverage.

 

I am retired, but a bit of experience and education, but would not state specifically unless we had all information.  There are just too many "what ifs" that could last  forever in discussion.

 

I think Ken's four question can be addressed.

 

First is No, not covered In route

 

Two would probably be Yes, subject to full details.

 

Three - BCA is not sponsoring any parades that I am aware, individual coverage would apply..

 

Four would be "you wreck a room, you buy it?", not the club.

 

Just my opinion.  I am not a licensed broker.  I suggest you call your for clarification. They do get a commission to service your questions.

 

John.  

[Grimy]

Let's not forget this:  In our litigious society, a "victim" (especially if s/he hooks up with ambulance chaser attorneys who advertise widely and expensively on TV) often sues every entity connected with the environment of the incident, especially those with deeper pockets, often to seek a settlement in which there is no finding of guilt or responsibility, but just to prevent further litigation.  There is a substantial cost to defending such lawsuits, even to get an organization or company or individual removed from the "everybody" defendant class.  This is why it's desirable for a club to have broad coverage.  And any club should also have Errors & Omissions coverage for its Board of Directors.

 

I am neither an attorney nor an insurance professional, but am a past president of a smaller single-marque club.

[NTX5467]

In the other club I'm in, we had some discussions about these things, 30 years ago.  On our entry forms, we used language which detailed whom would be "held harmless" in liability issues for the event.  All the way from the local dealership/host, the car club, the city, county and state.  Later, I shortened it to be basically "everybody's responsible for their own actions" and "Entrant agrees to abide by directions of event administration".  Then they signed and dated it.  If the entrant didn't desire to agree to that, they didn't enter, period.  Even with this, it's claimed that it can be "worthless in a court of law", BUT by voluntarily signing, dating, and paying money to enter, they are agreeing to these "Terms and Conditions".  Voluntarily, under no duress or coercion.  The fact they agreed also indicates "intent" to agree with the terms and conditions of participating in the event.

 

At some point, there is a reasonable "line" of what the event administration can control and what the participant can control.  Which gets back to the "primary" and "secondary" levels of insurance coverage by the entrant, participant, or spectator.  AND how much risk is willing to be taken by the entrant/participant/spectator in being at the event.  That's just me.

 

In the other club, we were extremely lucky in many respects.  We anticipated possible issues and did what we could to minimize or eliminate them.  Relating to the BCA National Meets, there have been times when on the way to the meet, something happened to damage a show car (on a trailer or on the road).  Nobody came looking for compensation from the BCA, but used their own insurance carrier as the primary insurance issue, which to me, is what should have happened.  No club or group can control the variable circumstances a paid entrant might encounter on the way to or from a "club event".  There is some control of what happens at the event, but not in all situations.

 

Agreed, it is best for the group to protect itself, its officers, and its members from possible litigation with appropriate insurance coverage.  That becomes a part of the group's operating overhead expenses.  Plus a group lawyer, hopefully a good one, on retainer for advice and defense.  Although it might not be understood "why", the event insurance is part of the reason that the BCA requires all chapter members to be paid-up members of the BCA also, or an invited guest or "Member-At-Large" (for the event).

 

NTX5467