Guest AKAus Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hi everyone, I'm a new member here, and hoping to learn more and ideally get some advice on the rather awkward situation my own car is in... I have a classic car (Humber), which unfortunately isn't running currently. It used to run fine, started reliably etc., but it's been stored in a garage for a few years now (I was away), and this is where the issue is.. - the car currently doesn't start (engine turns over but doesn't kick in) - the tyres are shot and need replacing (all 4 are flat and I honestly don't think could be inflated much/safely, if at all now) - I only have about 1 metre (= 100 cm = 39.37 inches) on one side of the car, and 50-60 cm (= 19.69-23.62 inches) on the other (garage is relatively narrow) - I've been told the tyre guys who can come to your home and change the tyres in-situ need approx. 1 m (39.37") around the car for access. I'm not sure what the best course of action is now, given the potential access issues with changing the tyres. I have a small build, so I can physically fit around the car with no problems, but I'm not sure about safely jacking the car up to remove the wheels, or access for tyre people to come change the tyres :/ My initial plan was to get the tyres replaced, and then get a mechanic to look at the engine. My question is, if it was your car, would would you do? Deal with tyres or engine first? When dealing with tyres - try to change the tyres without moving the car, or do something else?? I'm hoping someone could give me some ideas/guidance on this - all suggestions welcome! Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Welcome to the forum!! Have you tried inflating the tyres at all? I understand that they are dead flat, and probably need changing before you drive far, but why not try inflating them with a foot pump (hard work, but not bad if you take your time). It may be that most, if not all, will hold enough air for you to roll the car out of the garage to deal with it. Failing that, if you have mobile tyre fitters not too far away, they will probably pop round and blow them up with their compressor for a small fee. I would certainly try to get the car running first before buying tyres. If it has been standing for some time, the brakes may well be seized and need attention before you need to buy the tyres. If it was running when you parked it, it should be easy enough to get it going. Put some oil in the cylinder bores before turning it over and prime the carburetor with fresh fuel. You will probably need to clean and reset the points in the distributor and also the fuel pump if it has the SU type electric pump. It would be a good idea to change oil and water too. And if petrol was left in the tank, drain off what is left of it before putting any new stuff in. Obviously you are going to need a new battery. There is plenty of advice on here to help you out so do report back with your progress. Photos are nice too ;-) You do not say where you are from, but a Humber is a pretty rare beast anywhere. Which model is it? Adam.. Edited June 19, 2017 by Alfa (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I would try inflating the tires first. Chances are they will hold air long enough to roll the car out of the garage. If not, there are ways to move a car with flat tires that are not very difficult or costly. Even if you have to change one or two tires to move it that is better than trying to do all 4 in a narrow garage. But, let us know if they take air. Edited June 19, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Drag it out, slap new tyres on it. Not rocket science.........Bob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I supposed he must have thought of that, and it is impractical to just pull it out on flat tires . But if the tires won't hold air there is no reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I would like to know what car we are dealing with and the size of the tires it needs. I tend to side with Bhigdog......drag it out...can't hurt the tires on it now. If it is going to be some time before the car is "driveable" put used tires on it that hold air. This will allow you to move it easier...pull it out to work on the engine and push it back in when it is time to "go to the house" You may find the engine has a "knock" or other semi-serious problem and the new tires might dry rot before the engine problem is fixed. Also having some sort of tires on it that hold air would help if it needs to be moved to a shop for other repairs. All this "used tire" stuff is assuming it is not an ancient vehicle that take special tires that would not be available used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: I supposed he must have thought of that, and it is impractical to just pull it out on flat tires . But if the tires won't hold air there is no reason not to. I've dragged lots of cars with flat tires, for longer distances than just out of the garage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) If it was my car, I would 1.Try to put air in the tires. Move the car out of the garage. 2. See what is in the gas tank. Is there fuel or sludge. I would drain the tank no matter what. If a lot of crud you will need to clean the tank. 3. Change the oil. 4 Change the coolant. 5. Make sure the battery is good. ***Get the engine running*** 6. Check and repair any issues with the brakes. 7. Check the steering. Replace the tires after the car is running and drivable. Drive and enjoy the car!! Edited June 19, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hi all, Thanks for your replies, much appreciated. Thanks also for the welcome Adam To answer some of your questions (sorry for long post!): Car/general: - the car is a 1965 Humber Vogue, Series III (auto) - I am in Australia (Victoria) - car was running/driveable and roadworthy when it was parked in the garage, has not been driven in 6+ yrs - I've been wanting to get onto this for a while now, but given other stuff got stored in the garage around the car, had to sort out some of that first for access... Tyres: - the car runs modern tubeless tyres. The handbook specifies '6.00 x 13' and workshop manual specifies '600 x 13 Dunlop C41 Nylon or Rayon Tubeless (standard) or 590 x 13 Dunlop RS5 Tubeless (optional)'. - the current tyres: Remington 2000 P175/75SR13 (good point Barney, I should have mentioned that in first post, and good idea about possibly putting used tires on in the short-term). - I have not tried inflating the tyres yet - have definitely considered it, but I wanted to consider all options first and have only had time now to try and deal with it (also, I may be able to borrow a compressor, but haven't arranged that yet) - the car is currently undercover and dry in the garage, on a flat concrete floor. The driveway (leading to the garage) is quite sloped (upward from garage to street), and I don't have anywhere else to park the car that is level... so I am hesitant to move it from garage, given that it's currently in the best/safest place available to work on it (plus there are 3 other running cars in household that need the driveway for parking) - I've had another look over the tyres, looks like maybe one or 2 are worse than the others (unsure if they will be inflatable), but others should be ok I think. - Bhigdog/Rusty - yes I have thought of just dragging it out and changing the tyres, but the garage is the flattest/safest place available nearby. I have access to a 4WD, so should be able to pull the car out that way if necessary (just unsure about where to put it if I did drag it out of garage though, plus I've not towed any car with flat tyres and wasn't sure if that could damage things further). Other (thanks for tips Adam and Larry!): - I was intending to change oil and water, and drain/refill petrol (fuel) tank, just haven't had a chance (or space!) yet - I will definitely look at putting oil in the cylinder bores, and priming the carburetor with fresh fuel (please bear with me; I am pretty new to this but keen to learn) - I will also see about cleaning and resetting the points in the distributor - car has AC mechanically operated fuel pump - I disconnected the (relatively new) battery a while ago, may need to replace it if I can't charge it. - I do intend to have the brakes checked/fixed when it is running, along with steering, but it's not something I feel confident trying to do myself. - and yes I definitely want to drive and enjoy it once it's running! I have the original 'Owner's Handbook' and 'Model 35 Automatic Transmission' supplement booklet (came with car), along with an original 'Workshop Manual for Rootes Light Car Range (all models with 1725 engine)' (purchased this separately). If anyone else has a Vogue or light car from the Rootes group, I'd be happy to share these if it would help someone else (please let me know). If there's any other info you'd like that would be helpful, please let me know. I appreciate your generosity in sharing your knowledge. Unfortunately I don't have any friends/family who are mechanically minded or have experience with old cars, so it's great to know there are others willing to share advice Thanks again for all help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Here's a pic of one tyre, and one of the engine bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Are those tire cords poking out at the bottom right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 @cahartley I'm pretty sure no tyre cords are showing on any of the tyres - there is fluff (dust/spiderwebs) on the tyre though, visible around the tyre and in bottom right of pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 If that's the case airing them up should be OK......I can't any cracking or crazing going on so....... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 @cahartley thanks for your quick reply. One tyre on the other side (of course the side with less access) seemed to have some cracking on initial inspection, which is why I was concerned. I appreciate everyone's feedback - apologies if my questions seem a bit ignorant, but I am fairly new to all this - always loved cars and driving but wanting to learn as much as possible myself about the mechanics and maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hey........nobody in their right mind can knock someone interested in learning!....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 With 3 other cars in the household a little 5 gallon air compressor or a portable air tank would be a good investment, probably about the same price as having the mobile tyre fitters swing by. Don't drag it out on the flats if you don't absolutely have to, you will break seal and then you will be needing help to air up the tyres. Even if the tyres don't hold air for more than a day, cars do roll better than they drag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Yeah , that's for sure. And you don't owe apologies to anyone here. Ignorant questions are the ones someone SHOULD HAVE ASKED , but didn't. Although there are some super experienced guys here who know ALMOST everything about cars , no one person can know everything about ALL cars. But I think between ALL of us together, we come pretty close ! So please continue to ask. The guys who post here are very generous with their time , and love to help. From the look at your engine bay , you have a 50 + year old car in very good condition. Well worth your efforts. Funny thing is , if you continue on with us , by and by , you will be giving helpful information to others ! Seriously ! I have seen it happen here ! Welcome , friend ! - Carl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hi again, Haha, thank you @cahartley ! I may lack knowledge, but I have enthusiasm (don't worry, I realise that alone is not enough!) @Digger914 That's true, I might have to look into getting a small air compressor. Thanks, that was my instinct (don't drag it out on flats if avoidable) so I'm glad you said that. @C Carl Carl, thank you for the warm welcome! Yes, I figure I'll be "smart enough to ask dumb questions" Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it. I am definitely impressed by the level of knowledge and passion that everyone seems to possess here, and I agree that together, you guys seem to have it covered! I would love to ask more questions and learn more, but I am conscious of not being annoying, so I hope it doesn't seem I am taking advantage of picking people's brains!! Please let me know if so! The car is in pretty good condition overall, minimal rust as far as I know, good exterior/chrome, no accidents, interior is in excellent condition (not 100% original, but close), and I know the previous owner serviced it regularly and cared for it well. I genuinely love the car, and want to get it back on the road to drive and enjoy it more. Money is a limiting factor of course though, so depending how much needs to be done, it will probably be in stages. Haha, I hope I might be able to help others in future, but I think I'm a long way off that yet! As an update, I have tried to check the fuel tank, and it appears to be dry... no sludge or anything that I could find. Probably went about checking in the wrong way, but I gently poked a long slim flexible piece of plastic - made sure it was totally clean and dry first - into the fuel tank until it seemed to hit the bottom. Pulled it out and there was nothing (no liquid at all) on the plastic. I'm not sure what's in the fuel lines. The dipstick indicates level is full, but it obviously needs changing (intend to do a full oil and filter change anyway). In other news, I may have found a mechanic who would work with me (for $$ of course but still) and give me some tips, and has some experience working on classic English cars. So I'm happy about that - I've been madly trying to collect info and ideas, but it would ease my mind a bit to be able to learn in person from someone. I am willing to give things a go on my own car, given I do own it fully, but I don't have much equipment beyond basic tools. I don't really want to run out and buy a bunch of stuff without figuring out what I really need to purchase first. Thanks again to all for reading, and for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Briefly , AK' , you will go far here. You respond to the questions thoroughly , and that is the key to success on the forums. Man , some people post , but will not answer simple specific important questions. They will send me elsewhere. I am certain I speak for every one of us , as cooperative and interactive and enthusiastic as you are , you could play 20 questions with a different set every day. Don't hold back. I have seen the most complex problems solved here , sometimes over a very long intricate haul. So battery. It will almost surely charge up , since it is fairly new. Best way to do it is to step charge it up with a couple hours at 2 amps , take one clip off for an hour , 2 more hours , unclip for an hour , leave it on all night , off for 3 or 4 hours , on for 3 off 3 on 3 , etc. until done. Make sure your charger has overcharge protection, if you don't have one , buy one with a digital charge percentage readout. That's how I bring 'em back from the dead. Some guys may have other good tricks. Make sure all cells are up with distilled water as needed. Have your friend show you the proper level. It is unambiguous once you see how. Very late here on West Coast USA ; a real pleasure visiting with you. - Carl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) The best results for dead batteries that can be brought back is to put them on an automatic battery charger. I have also used a battery tender charger. Leave them on for maybe a week to have a chance of bouncing back. The rule of thumb that I used when teaching technicians was that it takes about as long to recharge a dead battery as it took to discharge it. That said, if you run a battery down trying to start a car, then it should recharge fairly quickly. If the battery discharged because the interior light was left on, then it could take a few days to attain a full charge. Just my experience. Edited June 20, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush Mechanic Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Hello AK. Have you looked for Rootes Group car clubs in your area? The Hillmans and Humbers have a strong following in Aus. We have a strong local club here in theLaunceston area, so I expect there will be more than one in Vic. Members would be only too pleased to give you advice and assistance with your Vogue. I have pumped up tyres sitting flat on garaged cars for 20 years, and they usually stay inflated for months, at least. Good luck with it. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 You are making rather heavy weather of a very simple problem. Get a small air compressor and air up the tyres. Put 20 to 25 PSI in them, that is plenty to move the car around. If the tyres were decent in the first place they should still hold air after 6 years although I would be leery of driving on them at speed. What if one doesn't hold air? In that case get out the spare and see if it holds air. If it does jack up that one wheel carefully with a good jack that goes under the axle or suspension. Don't forget to block the other tyres. Loosen the bolts before you jack it up, jack it up just enough to fit the tyre, and wait till you let it down to give the bolts their final tightening. Done this way there is practically no chance of accident, such as falling off the jack. If there are 2 flats now you have to repair or replace the one you took off and do it again. I was hoping to avoid typing out all this. I was hoping you would try pumping them up and then report back. But apparently you hate doing things the easy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 HI AK' ! Please allow me to introduce my special friend. Early on in my forum existence, I had the pleasure of being led to the water , and drinking of the knowledge there in. Something I NEEDED to know , but held a misconception. I got set straight on the path to understanding the "whys" , and the "why one should nots" , regarding period fuels for , and intake "ovens" on , late 'teen - early or mid '30s cars. The result allowed me to better understand my '24 and '27 Cadillacs , and improve their running. Hey ! Another example of where you are going on the forum ! From your local Marque club guys , you will indeed become a bit of an authority over time. I did on this particular aspect of proper engine operation in cars of the stated period. Anyway the prolific , very generous (note he has recently passed 9000 posts , a high percentage of which are thorough , detailed , informative , and in many cases he has several follow on words of wisdom , indicative of a very high level of involvement and care. I aspire to be like him). My benefactor is he to whom I refer to as "Trusty , but Crusty" , as Rusty certainly is. He has poked fun at me , well taken , which has caused me to laugh so hard I almost spewed ! From time to time , we PM. A great , knowledgeable guy he is , and I have a feeling he would be the first to stop , wrench in hand , if he found you with your hood up by the side of the road. But , as you can see , there IS a crusty sarcastic side to the kind , highly experienced old master mechanic. Have a laugh , and ask him another question ! (You will get to know personalities of some here , and believe me , we all hold you in high esteem. That is why you are getting so much help ). - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 C Carl thank you for the kind words. If you lived in a convenient distance I would be there, wrench in hand. If my manner seems sarcastic I apologize. I have found that when communicating in writing it helps to speak plainly so there is no misunderstanding, especially when discussing technical subjects. And AKAus I apologize to you too, if I have been too blunt. On re reading your posts I find that you are new to working on old cars and I did not allow for that. As an aside, on the weekend I was picking up some brake fluid at Canadian Tire and I saw a device that was new to me. It was a hand held air pump. Imagine a cordless, battery powered electric drill but where the drill bit would go, is an air hose and tire valve. I never saw one before. There are also small pumps that plug into the cigarette lighter outlet in your car. If you have room there are little air compressors that plug into the wall, that have an air tank as well as a pump. These are better, and they are handy for all kinds of things besides pumping up tyres. I have seen them for sale for under $100. Since you live in a hot climate there is a good chance the water has evaporated from your battery. If you pry off the top you can add distilled water, just enough to cover the plates. Do not put too much in, the level rises when you charge the battery. If the battery is completely dried out and white inside it is finished. A quick test of an old battery is to take a piece of wire, hold it on one terminal and brush it against the other. If you get a spark chances are the battery will charge up and work well. No spark it is probably finished. Since the car was stored inside in a dry climate it should need very little to put it back in commission. When you get your air compressor blow air into the gas tank filler pipe and smell what comes out. If it smells like gas you are good to go. If it smells like old stinky varnish STOP do not try to start the car until you disconnect the fuel line and connect a motorboat gas tank or small gas can. The tank will need to be removed and cleaned. If it was mine I would pump up the tires and charge the battery or buy a new one as necessary. Connect the fuel pump to a fresh supply of gas. Check the oil and coolant. Check that it has spark, and fire it up. First thing is see to the tyres and battery. After that is done come back and let us know what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks to all for the additional posts on the thread. In advance, sorry for the essay below! @C Carl Carl, thank you for you kind words, I do appreciate that. I am sure that with the forum's combined knowledge, many complicated issues have been solved. I hope you didn't stay up late on account of replying to my post!! Carl and @Larry Schramm Re: battery, I know about topping up with distilled water, and have been looking at chargers (do not own one currently). Thank you both for the tips on what to look for and how to charge to bring a dead battery back. I would definitely go with a charger with overcharge protection, but the only ones in my price range seem to have the 'light up dot' system for showing charge progress, not the digital charge percentage readout you mention. @Bush Mechanic Mick, thanks for mentioning that - yes, I am aware of the Rootes clubs in Vic and will be looking into that further, it's nice to know there are other Humbers still going strong out there! Do you have a Rootes group car? Good to know about your experience with flats too. @Rusty_OToole I realise this is a simple problem for experts such as yourself. However, it's new to me, hence my aim of searching out advice from others with more experience. I have already thought about using the spare, and changing a tyre is something I do know about. Thank you for typing the info out, it's good of you to do so. Obviously, no one is obliged to read my posts or reply to them. I sure hope I haven't given the impression that I think otherwise! I do want to try pumping the tyres up and see how it goes, but I need to arrange a compressor first and have the time (and daylight - it's Winter here) to do so. I work, volunteer, and have health issues and other commitments, so I can't always do things immediately (as much as I might like to). Sometimes - as I'm sure is true for most people - it takes longer to get onto things than it "should". I do want to work on my car, but it is likely to take me a good few months, due to time and financial constraints. My point in saying that is to give a heads-up to anyone who is interested to follow along on what should be a relatively simple "project" (ie. not a full restoration or anything as remotely complicated), that things may not progress as fast as might be expected, and I may not be able to give super-frequent updates. @C Carl thanks for filling me in I bet your Cadillacs are lovely and well cared for! I am sure you ALL would be very helpful to anyone in need by the side of the road. I realise sarcasm and good-natured banter is often lost in translation online, just due to the nature of the written word, and I've been on both sides of that situation myself... I think it's interesting how all forums tend attract a diverse bunch of people, and I do appreciate everyone's help @Rusty_OToole thanks for the kind offer, but I'm guessing you are in Canada, so definitely not a convenient distance!! No worries, I agree that plain wording is helpful when discussing technical things and I understand you didn't mean to offend - blunt is fine. (I also know I tend to ramble, so anyone please feel free to call me on it if I'm not explaining things clearly). Re: compressors - the drill one sounds interesting, but I've never seen one - have seen the cigarette lighter version though. The one I'm hoping to borrow (possibly this weekend) is a larger one, apparently with a long attachment hose, so I should be able to reach it from a powerpoint to all the tyres. I have not checked inside the battery yet but will do so in the next few days. I will also try the spark test you mentioned, and try blowing air into the fuel tank - thanks for sharing your tricks. As for another question - off the tyre track (bad pun, I know ;p) - does anyone know anything about AAA Classic Coolant, which is propylene glycol based? It sounds like an interesting, safer/more enviro-friendly alternative to a lot of the commercially available coolants here, but I don't think it's available in Australia... Hope it's ok to post links - here is the product: http://aaaclassic.com/ and http://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/propylene-glycol--pre-mixed-coolant-5-litres-non-toxic-long-life-environmentally-friendly-928-p.asp and here's some more info about it: https://citroenclassics.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/what-is-the-right-coolant-to-use-in-our-older-cars/ I will keep you all posted and report back when I have something to report... Thanks for everyone's help and I hope your own projects are coming along well (and/or you are enjoying your driveable cars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Well, how nice to meet a fellow Rootes Group owner on here! I have a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger MkII. That car looks very complete in the photos. You have semi-modern low profile radials fitted to it (the original size references are for cross plies). I would blow them up quick!! I bet they will hold air and your car will be moveable. As somebody mentioned above, it might be worth buying a small air compressor for not much money (or a foot pump). Very handy for inflating tyres. You used the correct procedure for checking the petrol level (!). The mechanical fuel pump may be stuck, but you will not know until you try starting the engine. If you are not familiar, it may be worth getting your local mechanic to help getting it started. But if you would like to go it alone, I would be happy to give you step by step instructions. there is no magic to it. By the way, the 'light up dot' style charger will be fine. Regarding antifreeze; you must avoid any of the modern ones that have organic acid technology (OAT), it will damage parts of your cooling system. The one you posted a link for is IAT (Inorganic) so that is fine. But I tend not to go for ready mixed coolants. You are paying for something that is 70% plain water. I tend to use ethylene glycol antifreeze, but propolene glycol would be less toxic, not that you are going to be pouring it down the drain. I do not think you can get methanol antifreeze any more, thankfully. Adam.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush Mechanic Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 AK, in reply to your question, I don't personally run any Rootes Group cars, though I did have one of the ex-government Humber Super Snipes in the distant past. You will find they are fairly straight forward, mechanically, and solidly built. A good choice to get started in the hobby with. I declined my grandfather's Hawk, a roundy, as I was still into go-fast machinery at the time. Still run a couple of British cars, though. (And still like to go fast)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thanks for your replies and help, it's very encouraging to hear from everyone @Alfa Thanks Adam, the same to you of course! The Sunbeam Tigers look like beautiful little cars, I'm sure yours is - and a lot sportier than the Vogue too How long have you had yours? Thanks, it seems to be pretty complete. Thanks for clarifying that about the tyres - obviously I knew the original specified tyres were different to what it's been running, but the '6.00/600' reference did throw me a bit, so I appreciate that you pointed out that the original refs are for cross plies. I am hoping to try inflating them this weekend. Have been looking into air compressors/foot pumps, and I think it would be a handy thing to have. Glad to know I used the right petrol checking procedure! I gather there's no way to tell if the fuel pump's stuck just by looking at it then? I have had a look, but have not fiddled with it. I am looking to try some things (tyres, at least) first myself, and then probably will ask a mechanic to come have a look, and give me their take on it, and maybe try to work on some things together. Thanks very much for your kind offer of giving me step by step instructions, any tips or 'procedures' to follow would be brilliant honestly, if you're sure you wouldn't mind. I am very much a newbie! I currently have the manuals I mentioned before (incidentally, let me know if you ever want any photos/scans from the Rootes light car workshop manual), plus the internet (hello Google) and an old 'Petersen's Basic Auto Repair Manual' that I picked up 2nd hand somewhere. That's why everyone's advice here is very valuable to me (and appreciated). Great, I think I will try to pick up one of those battery chargers. Thanks for the tips on antifreeze/coolant, I did do some research on that and learnt that only the IAT coolant is ok. I agree with you in that I wouldn't usually go for pre-mixed, for the same reason you mentioned... however, they reckon that it's extremely long-lasting, so maybe more more cost-effective than it initially seems. Yes, I've looked for similar ones (as it seems the one I linked to isn't available in Aus) with propylene glycol as a base, but only came up with large commercial quantities (and no prices) on sites dealing with stuff for industrial/agricultural vehicles. I know the ethylene glycol sort is widely available here, so I will probably have to go with that, but I would definitely prefer the propylene glycol if I could find it, given it's less toxic. (and I definitely don't pour anything like that down the drain!!) @Bush Mechanic thanks for your reply. That's interesting you had an ex-gov Humber, I bet it was in good condition! My great-uncle apparently had a Super Snipe (found this out after I bought my car), and I know my mum said it was massive to drive, but a lovely car (and immaculate) with the full picnic setup in the back... Not sure where that went, she's doesn't know who ended up with it. I hope it's still going strong somewhere. Yes, that's what I thought - it seemed relatively simple mechanically and is a solid car (always love how the older cars' doors have that real 'clunk' when you shut them, unlike today's ones), and it was an affordable option for me, though not a make/model I specifically set out to find at the time. The Hawks are very nice too - I'm sorry though, I don't know what a 'roundy' is? Haha, go fast machinery... I get what you mean though! Do you have older British cars or more modern ones now? (I'm sure it's been mentioned on the forum, but I haven't had as much time to browse as I'd like). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Have you looking at getting a set of these. https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=wheel+dolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Keep in mind those car dollies are either perfect or awful. If you have a perfectly smooth and clean floor, they are fantastic. If you don't keep your floor swept and spotless, they are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I don't want to discourage you but the chance of the battery being any good after sitting for 6 years is practically nil. Try to charge it up if you like but if it won't take a charge after 24 hours invest in a new one. If you don't have a charger it might be cheaper to take it to a garage to be tested and charged. Edited June 22, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Well, I promised to do a step-by-step list of tasks, so here goes. Please bear in mind that I haven`t seen the car (obviously), so this is generic, but it is the order that I would address things. I am assuming that the engine was healthy when the car was parked some 6 years ago, and that oil changes were up to date prior to that, so I can skip compression tests and cleaning out the sump. 1. Blow up the tyres (!) we have talked about that already. 2.check for bird`s nests, rodent colonies, etc Yes really! even up the exhaust pipe. 3. check that the engine turns freely, including ancillaries like dynamo and water pump. 4 drain oil and refill with suitable grade/viscosity and renew the oil filter. Check the air filter and replace if necessary. Look for a fuel filter if there is one. 5. Drain coolant and replace with ethylene glycol (not OAT) at 30% concentration. 6. drain petrol tank if there is anything in it. Put fresh petrol in. 7. refit newly recharged (or brand new) battery, looking critically at the battery terminals, leads and earthing points. (should be unfrayed, clean, and tight). I like to put copper grease on all connections on mine. It helps in the damp UK climate. 8.remove and check spark plugs (for general condition, cracked insulators, and electrode gap.) also put a squirt of oil down each bore in case it is dry. 9. turn on ignition and check for a spark. As a stop-gap, you can remove the distributor cap and rotor arm, then turn on the ignition and flick the contacts with a finger nail whilst simultaneously holding the main HT lead from the coil close to an earth. You should see a nice spark. In reality, what will ultimately be needed is to remove the contact breaker points from the distributor and dress the contacts with emery paper or a fine file (or fit new contacts). The points need to be set for correct gap and the ignition timing reset. This would be the subject of a separate description, unless you can read a book or get help to do. The process is not difficult, but must be fastidiously carried out. 10. With a good spark, oil, water and fuel where it should be, you could try starting the engine. It may take some cranking to raise the fuel from the tank. In any case, it would be good to crank it with one of the low-tension (small) wires removed from the coil to allow oil pressure to be built up in the engine. This will either be visible on the oil pressure gauge if there is one, or will put out the oil warning light. 11. Don`t forget use of the choke! No modern cars have one and younger drivers are not familiar. 12. If there is no petrol coming through after a reasonable amount of cranking, it may be necessary to remove and check the fuel pump. In the longer term, a new pump might be a good idea. They should be available from a local motor factor, still. Failing that there are a number of UK suppliers that can send you one. I can give you the web links if you need them. 13. If there is no spark even after checking/cleaning/replacing/setting the points, you may have a duff coil or condenser. To avoid me writing War and Peace here, let`s cross that bridge when we come to it.. 14. Hopefully, by this point you are listening to a running engine. Now maybe, the clutch is stuck, or the brakes seized. If the clutch is stuck, stop the engine and engage a forward gear. then, whilst keeping the clutch fully depressed, restart the engine. (Apply handbrake and make sure there is nothing in front of the car before you try this). The clutch should free-up on start up (hopefully). I think the clutch on your car will be hydraulic, so there is the possibility of master cylinder or slave cylinder trouble on the clutch. That will need to be checked later. 15. Be very wary of using engine flush preparations. They have been known (including in my personal experience) to be very effective at loosening deposits in the engine, only for it to block the oil pump pick-up screen and leave you with no oil pressure and no big end bearings. Better to leave the dirt where it is, honestly. I hope that this little lot helps a bit. This tends to be an emotive subject and others on here will doubtless have alternative views on how to go about things. But what I have written will work, based on 35 years in the motor industry. Getting the engine running is just the beginning. It will need a thorough service and setting up, but that can come later. Adam.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Here is my Rootes Group baby:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush Mechanic Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Hi, AK, Adam has a lot of good sensible advice there. When you are ready to try firing it up, if the fuel pump is suspect, I usually remove the air cleaner to pour a teaspoon of petrol in the top of the carby. If you have spark and compression it will fire, run fairly rapidly for 2 or 3 seconds then stop if fuel isn't pumping. You can do this 2 or 3 times, then if it still won't keep running, I would check the fuel pump diaphram and valves. There are far more knowlegeable folk on this forum. If they disapprove of this method, I bow to their superior knowledge. But I have personally used the above method for about 55 years with good results. Yes, the folding walnut writing tables for the rear psssengers in the Super Snipe were quite impressive. By a 'roundy' I was referring to the earlier Hawks with a rounded profile as compared to the sharper late series. Cannot remember the relavent years, I'm sorry. My English cars are a '61 Big Healey, a '72 MG Midget and currently finishing another bare metal restoration of a '73 MGB. So about the same era as the Vogue. Have found a 1923 Metallurgique, which I am keen to start restoring next. A bit different, so plenty of new challenges. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AKAus Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) You guys are awesome - thank you all for your replies/help/suggestions! All much appreciated I know I haven't posted in last few days, but I've been busy with work etc and also wanted to have something to report... so here is a long 'update' post (feel free to skim read or skip completely as you please of course) @jan arnett (2) and @39BuickEight thanks for the advice - I did consider those dolly things, but figured it might be more hassle than it's worth in my particular situation (driveway slopes downwards to garage; garage floor is ok but driveway concrete has cracks/dips/etc). So I thought I would try other options first. Good thought though, thanks. (Also your Buick looks great Billy - super impressive project and very inspiring!) @Rusty_OToole Yep, you are completely correct Rusty! I took the old battery to an auto shop that does free battery testing - result was very poor, but I gave it a shot in a battery charger (borrowed, and with overload protection) overnight then took it back the next day for a 2nd test... still no good so I did buy a new battery. @Alfa Adam, your little Tiger is gorgeous! Thanks for sharing the pic, it looks immaculate and I like the colour too - very elegant (is it British racing green?) Thank you so much for taking the time to write out all that for me - it's very kind of you Yeah, I know it is a bit difficult (and I have probably failed to include various useful info), given that the car is here and you are 'there', but your list is a great help. To the best of my knowledge, the car/engine was fine when it was last parked in the garage (was certainly still driving fine at that time). The TYRES! Yes, this is my latest update - I'm pleased to report that I was able to borrow the compressor I mentioned, and inflated the tyres to 25 psi today. I did buy a little foot pump too, but quickly realised it would take me about 18 months to inflate them that way, so I thought I'd try the compressor and save the foot pump for emergency top ups. However, I would highly recommend the foot pump if you wish to strengthen your leg muscles without visiting the gym. When I did use the compressor, it was very satisfying to watch the tyres quickly fatten up and the car gradually rise. Tomorrow I will check the tyres to see if they've lost any air (I bought a nifty little tyre gauge). Birds, bugs, rodents, snakes, possums - I extended my inspection of the car (moved some more stuff so I could get to the boot/trunk better today) - no sign of critters, beyond the expected spiders and bugs, most deceased. I also checked out the boot and it appears immaculate, as it was left when car was parked. The rubber seals around the boot are not in the best shape, but honestly that's to be expected given the age of the car and the fact that they looked much the same when I actually purchased it. Re: oil etc - I have purchased engine oil (Penrite 20W-60 mineral oil with 1600 ppm zinc), a new oil filter, and oil drain pan. Probably unnecessary info, but in case anyone is interested. I have not done anything else currently, but hoping to do a few more steps over the next week. I am having some trouble finding the correct air filter, as I'd like to replace that too. Obviously I'm not going to get the 'original original', but I need a suitable modern equivalent. Ryco is the major filter manufacturer here, and I've gone through their website product selector thing - they recommend air filter A21, which is a circular pleated paper type (http://www.rycofilters.com.au/catalogue/part/index/part/A21) However, this is not going to work on my Vogue - the 'air cleaner' takes a rectangular "replaceable (fibre) pad type element... supplied in an oil wetted condition, inside a sealed plastic bag" (from original manuals). I'm wondering if anyone would know a suitable filter I could use? I will have to look into this more, and I'll add info to this thread I find anything. I have also looked into coolant, but haven't decided on which product yet - I know the car needs IAT (thanks guys), but that is no longer very common here - they seem to be replacing it with the HAT sort (I've been told by the manufacturer that the green HAT product is ok for my car, but I "probably should flush the cooling system completely first"...). I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but in Australia, coolants are (also) considered Type A or B. As I would like to use the car regularly when it is running again, the coolant manufacturer I spoke with recommended Type A (glycol base antifreeze/antiboil, with corrosion inhibitors) over the Type B (basically water with corrosion inhibitors), and at 33% concentration. I would be interested to hear other people's takes on the coolant situation, if anyone wants to share their opinion on that advice. Battery tray, leads, terminal clamps look to be in good condition, I will give them a clean before installing new battery. Thanks for the tip about copper grease Adam, do you mean something like 'Herschell copper anti-seize grease'? Hope you don't mind me asking, I am not familiar with the different types of grease. Re: steps 8 & 9 that Adam mentioned, I think I will get help to learn those things, I think I could do the cleaning of the distributor points for example, but this is still very new to me. The choke - yes, it was definitely different to learn how to use that when I got the car and I will remember to use it! The fuel pump looks to be in good condition from 'the outside', but I have not removed it or taken it apart. It is a mechanical one, with the glass dome bit on top. @AlfaThank you for your offer of sharing the links for UK suppliers Adam, that would be great. Happy to do the same back, I have found a few possible sources of Rootes parts, but you probably know them already. Haha, I definitely agree with you about crossing additional bridges when (if, hopefully) they arise. The car is an auto, so I do not have an actual clutch pedal (I realise autos have clutch discs/plates though). Thanks for the tip about not using engine flush products - I came across the same opinions looking up stuff online, so I'm glad that you confirmed that. I will avoid! That helps a great deal - everyone's thoughts and advice are very welcome and it's lovely that you are all so generous in sharing your knowledge. It can be a bit overwhelming coming into it with very little 'car know=how', so thanks for breaking it down for me. @Bush Mechanic Thanks for your extra tips Mick, the petrol 'shortcut' is good to know, and I can see that it would help in figuring out if the fuel pump was dodgy. You all are a vault of info! Thanks also for clarifying about the 'roundy', I guessed it would be to do with the shape, but I've never actually seen a Hawk in real life, so I wasn't sure. MGs are pretty popular here it seems (I can see why!), they are one of the few classics I see around regularly. The Big Healey is definitely a good looking car too The Metallurgique is one I had to look up, certainly a bit different from your others! Looks like it would be quite the project - I hope you have fun with it. Ok, it's late here and I'm pretty tired, so I will stop rambling on now. Thanks again for your tips, everyone! Edited June 26, 2017 by AKAus typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It's good that the tyres hold air. They will probably be all right for moving the car around. Re the air filter. It is hard to tell without seeing it but if it is not full of dirt it should be all right as it is. If you want to try cleaning it, soak it in Varsol kerosene or cleaning solvent to rinse out oil and dirt. It may need 2 or 3 rinsings. When it is clean let it air dry, do not blow with compressed air if there is any danger of damaging it or making holes. When it is dry, pour on some air filter oil and let it soak in. There are other brands of filter that use oil soaked fibre or felt as a filter medium. One is K&N and I think a lot of dirt bikes use this type filter. They were common before the paper type came in. Back then we used 50 weight motor oil. Another good clinging oil is chain saw bar oil. Is there a Humber owner's club? One make clubs are a fountain of knowledge about their particular makes and usually have the parts supply problems figured out, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 20W60 is WAY too heavy !!!! Take it back and get 10W/30 or 10W40 FULL SYNTHETIC. This subject comes up every couple weeks or so. Please use the search box. Selection of the Right Motor Oil might get you there. Read what "Spinneyhill" , a PhD Kiwi professor who really knows his stuff , has to say. Do not use too heavy an oil , and use synthetic grease also. You may find my extended comments. Search for synthetic grease. Gotta go. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Synthetic grease will work in the General search box. The other I speculated will get you nowhere. Richard Widman motor oil will do it . Please read Widman's 33 page pdf. Yes , it will be easy in some places , you with your high intellect and verbal abilities , will slog through it . In the end , you may well know more about motor oils than perhaps in your case , 92% of the people who have not studied Widman. I had to read it twice , and should do it again. I am old , and failing physically and mentally. You will be oiling and greasing machinery for many years to come. Might as well get on the right track now. Several of us had long held dogma corrected by reading op. cit. One never learns so well as when having myth dispelled. - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfa Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I am not trying to disagree with C Carl. His advice is sound. I am just offering a more pragmatic view. When your car was new 20W50 would have been standard fayre. I would normally run a 15W40 and that is what is in my Tiger, by the way. I would suggest that the 20W60 will be fine for now. You will be wanting to change the oil again shortly and could use a lighter grade then. I have noticed since visiting this forum that American contributors prefer much lighter oils than we use in Europe. I think that might be because of the prevalence of hydraulic lifters in the V8s. But in the next 12 months, I suspect that you will accumulate no more than a few hundred miles in the Vogue, so I am not sure that it matters that much. Whilst on my soap box, let me add that Fully Synthetic oils (that is a synthetic base oil plus synthetic additive pack, as opposed to a mineral base oil plus synthetic additive pack) are superb products. But the reason to select a full synthetic is that it will 'stay in grade' far, far longer than a mineral base oil, where the molecule chains get mashed up eventually. This is relevant for modern high performance petrol or diesel engines with high boost pressures and extended drain intervals (up to 100,000km in heavy trucks). What you should ask your self is, how is this relevant to my Vogue, which will get an oil change once a year and cover a few hundred defensively driven miles in between? I would suggest that it is unnecessary, and I do not use them in my old cars. My 2014 Range Rover Sport does use a synthetic oil, it also has sequential turbo chargers and high rates of exhaust gas recirculation and a DPF. What is more important is to look at the additive specification of the oil. I would suggest that a SG/CF4 is perfect. Watch out for the fact that the latest oils have had sulphur, zinc and 'ash' removed to avoid poisoning 3-way catalytic convertors or passive regenerating diesel particulate filters. You selected an oil with a high dose of ZDDP (zinc) which is ideal for sliding tappet valve train operation. Perfect for your car. Deadly for a cat or DPF. Hoping not to be too controversial Adam.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 The truth is any name brand oil you buy today will be better than what they had when your car was built. Maybe they wouldn't use such heavy oil if they knew it does not reduce oil burning and does not lubricate better. In fact it lubricates worse. It is well known in engineering circles that 90% of the wear in your engine takes place at start up, before the oil starts to circulate. The thicker the oil the longer your engine runs without lubrication and the faster it wears. Thick oil also causes more friction and therefore worse gas mileage. Something that opened my eyes was a video of a record attempt by Pierce Arrow in 1932. They drove one of their cars continuously at top speed on the Bonneville salt flats for 24 hours, smashing all speed records and averaging 117 MPH for a full 24 hours. To put this in perspective at the time Rolls Royce warned their owners not to drive at high speed for more than 5 minutes for fear of blowing up their engine. They did this on Pennzoil 20W20 motor oil. 24 hours at well over 100 MPH in temps of up to 100 degrees. They repeated the feat 2 more times without an engine failure or involuntary stop. Now everybody seems to think they need a crankcase full of 30 weight to putter around the neighborhood. This may be the worst oil you could use. That engine has probably used 10W30 since new. There is no reason to use anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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