alsancle Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Time to start a thread to discuss DuPont. When you think about this marque invariably you are talking about the Model G straight eight of 1928-1930 production. Although almost all the components were sourced from other manufacturers, it is not fair to call this an assembled car as quite a bit of engineering and fine tuning went in to all the components. All were coachbuilt with bodies from Waterhouse, Merrimack and a few others. I urge everyone to get a copy of Stan Smith's book which lists every chassis # built for the Model G. There were 3 model H cars built on left over Stearns Knight chassis's. Of those, one survives (although another was still around in the late 40s). The sport phaeton on the H chassis is one of the best looking Classic era cars ever built. The closest I have came to one of these was a club sedan that Mark Hyman was selling as a restoration project. He only had it a short time before it was sold. I think this is the car post restoration. This is the lone known surviving model H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) I was looking at the Waterhouse Model G on Wednesday in St Louis. Decent older restoration. I tried to buy a speedster right after I got out of college. Made my best offer with money I still hadn't managed to accumulate, I was still 35k short back in 1991. I have managed to save up the rest of the money as of today. Now I'm short about 800k. Twenty six years later and they are still going up in value..........where's my T? Edited June 11, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Has there ever been a bad looking Waterhouse bodied car? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I promised Al if he started a thread I would add an original photo and Stan Smith's research on such - I will have to do some homework about where is is in the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 By the way, the H dual cowl (white and Black) - why have I never seen an original photo of this as a new car - not like it would ever go unnoticed in the 30's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I don't have Stan's book handy, does he have a picture of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Somewhere buried in my car stuff, I have info and literature of them building the last cars in Springfield Massachusetts. Does anyone else have anything on them in Springfield? Interesting to think that DuPont and Rolls Royce were in the same town making cars at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I think the only cars built in Springfield were the 3 Model H's on the Stearn's chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The factory letters I have say Springfield. I think the printed literature does also, but it's been 25 years since I have looked at the stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 E. Paul Dupont had bought Indian motors around 1931 and they moved the entire engineering staff from Delaware to Springfield. It would be interesting to see what you have. Maybe my Stutz picture will be in the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Maybe MY Stutz picture will be in the lot................? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, edinmass said: Maybe MY Stutz picture will be in the lot................? Funny boy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 So who remembers the car that started it all for J.B. Nethercutt? Found on a used car lot in the 1950s, it was J.B.'s first restoration and an early Pebble BOS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) Awesome Car (and I do not say that about "Town Cars" too often). And, enjoyed both CCCA articles on it when first done and more recent update (including photos of it when "found"). Edited June 24, 2017 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 In 2011, I had the pleasure of closely inspecting that lone surviving model H in its owner's garage. It is perhaps the most stunning car I have ever seen. it really takes your breath away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I had the luck to see and hear a Dupont running around the basement garage at the Peterson Auto Museum in Los Angeles a few years back. It looked and sounded great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 Speaking of the Nethercutt Dupont, here it is when my wife and I visited the collection last year. You need to all ahead for a reservation but the tour is free and fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) If the one that´s at The Nethercutt is not a Classic Car, I don´t know what is. Here are a couple more. Edited September 20, 2017 by jeff_a (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Is there such thing as an interior photo of this Town Car - I have never seen one and am curious all be it I assume it is "modern" aka very plain & simple ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 On 6/11/2017 at 8:39 AM, alsancle said: This is the lone known surviving model H. And, I would still love to see a photo of this car as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 8 hours ago, John_Mereness said: And, I would still love to see a photo of this car as new. I'll check Stan Smith's book, but I think the earliest picture I have ever seen is the 1950s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 OK. I was wrong. In deference to Stan, I don't want to scan his book but there is a picture of H-1002 (The sport Phaeton) on page 92 pictured at the NY Auto Show. In the appendix is notes the double rear spare treatment and the fact it was at the Show. Something I didn't realize was that the body was framed by Dupont and finished by J. Marshall of the Merrimac body company (which I think was defunct at that point). I had always seen the car attributed to Merrimac. The picture I was thinking of was taken in 1958 and is on a following page. Anybody reading this thread should buy Stan's Smith's book!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Have you seen this photograph? According to the note on the back, the older gentleman standing in front of the DuPont is Mr. DuPont himself. The photo was taken by Chapin Waldor at a very early car meet somewhere in the greater Boston area, probably around 1947. The Bugatti is pretty good too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 That is a great photo. Notice the Ascott and the SS in the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) The Ascott would have been Steve Antine's car, in the family from New as I remember. It was the first Springfield P1 I ever drove. It recently was sold by RM. That would have been a VMCCA meet, possibly at the Quabbin Reservoir. I'm sure the Fred Roe photo collection would have more photos and photos of the individual cars. Edited September 25, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I have more photos also. This is from Alden Handy's photo album. Handy was a friend of Waldor and an accomplished photographer himself. I know he was at the opening of the Lars Anderson museum because I have his photos of the event and his admission ticket. I knew Steve Antine as a member of the local VMCCA chapter in the 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SaddleRider Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) On 9/19/2017 at 5:38 PM, jeff_a said: If the one that´s at The Nethercutt is not a Classic Car, I don´t know what is. Where you been ? EVERYTHING must be called a "classic" these days. What are you telling us...that you are one of those knuckle-draggers who dare still use the term "used" car, or " neat old" car, or "car from the 1920"....or "car from the 1930" ? Shame on you....wake up.....I bet you cant go to a fast food joint, a plumber's shop, or even a grocery store without finding more and more things are called "classic". Go back under your rock..i know where you are coming from...you are probably one of those silly old grouches who thinks the word "classic" means something OTHER than " I have this thing I want to unload".....! Yes - there WAS a time when the term "antique car" meant a car that had "antique" features...such as a "T" head motor....only "external contracting" brakes on the rear wheels only, carbide operated headlights ( who remembers how to turn on the headlights of a REAL antique car...hint...carefully...!). and the word "classic" was limited to only the "top-of-the-line" largest, most powerful super luxury cars of the late 1920's up to the start of World War II. But those days are gone, along with the way folks used language then. So stop asking questions on how folks like to use the words "classic"...or, for that matter "antique" these days. P.S. Who remembers when Jack brought that thing to his first GRAND CLASSIC...all so pretty and perfectly restored...( no...not JB..i am referring to the Du Pont....!) and then...at judging...the durn horn wouldn't work......! Edited September 25, 2017 by SaddleRider apple sauce (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I appreciate the traditional term Classic Car, but I just drove downtown to have a Classic Coke (TM). For some reason, I´m attracted more to the earlier part of the spectrum of Classic Cars. I would rather have a ´22 Leland Lincoln or a ´26 Packard Single Six than a ´38 Cadillac or ´41 Lincoln(not that I could afford any of them). That reminds me of a story I read once you might appreciate. In a memoir of a WWII infantryman, American soldiers somewhere in Europe were taking five. A bunch of them were exchanging pictures of their girlfriends or wives, but this guy was showing his buddy a picture of The Most Beautiful Car Ever Built(in his opinion), a 1941 Lincoln Continental. To his surprise, his pal countered by showing him a photo of a 1936 Cord 810. I guess it´s all a matter of taste. Edited September 27, 2017 by jeff_a (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 His pal nailed it, maybe not the absolute most beautiful car ever, but the Cord 810/812 is surely in the top five. Everyone loves the looks of a Cord, love of the looks of a Lincoln Continental is really more of an individual choice. What a gearhead: alone (figuratively speaking), across the ocean, fighting for freedom and your life, not knowing if life or death awaits, and one carries car pictures in one's pocket......wow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) It's not really any of my business what other people like, but I have the exact opposite view of both the Cord and the Lincoln... I've never like any of the coffin-nose Cords and never understood why they were so much admired. I'm not quite as put off the the '41 Continental but I'd take a '22 Packard or certainly any Silver Ghost or PI over either of them regardless of body style. I'm reminded of something my former employer told me. His brother had a Cord roadster. Ted (my employer) loved the way it looked... he'd say "It was a magnificent car. A crowd would gather everywhere it broke down." Edited September 27, 2017 by JV Puleo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 Joe, a well maintained Cord is as reliable as any other prewar car. The key issue being "well maintained". There is quite a styling spread between 1930 and 1936. Compare the differences between just about any 1930 car and any 1936 car. For me, 1932 is the prime prewar year for general esthetics. Just about everybody made a good looking car that year. As the saying goes: "There is an A** for every seat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) I agree that 1932 was an extremely good year. Actually, I tend to feel it's all gone downhill from there. But, that requires that the main focus be on what it looks like rather than what it works like... I tend to feel the great age of automotive engineering was over by about 1925 and that most everything since has been an improvement on existing ideas. But... How boring would it be if everyone liked the same thing? Back in the 70s I did business with a local company, Palmer Spring, in business since the 1830s. At the time, the "old timer" (he may have been a member of the Palmer family) that ran the place had been there since the 20s. One day he reminisced to me about an beautiful L29 he could have bought for a pittance when it was only two or three years old... after the 4th or 5th time it had broken a front spring and the owner was so disgusted with it that he was ready to just about give it away. It seems it couldn't handle car tracks very well, especially if you hit one when turning. We don't have many car tracks left to run into - or railroad tracks either so I'm not sure a modern driver would even be aware there was a problem. I suspect there is a lot of that where conditions have changed radically in the last 100 years. We probably have a fairly distorted vision of what driving in the mid 30s or earlier was like. Edited September 27, 2017 by JV Puleo error (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, alsancle said: Joe, a well maintained Cord is as reliable as any other prewar car. The key issue being "well maintained". There is quite a styling spread between 1930 and 1936. Compare the differences between just about any 1930 car and any 1936 car. For me, 1932 is the prime prewar year for general esthetics. Just about everybody made a good looking car that year. As the saying goes: "There is an A** for every seat". As far as drive-ability, I would tell you that a 1935/1936 Auburn 8 to be the second finest driving pre -1953 cars made and a well sorted Cord 810/812 is the first finest driving pre-1953 car. One of the keys of the Auburn was that in the process to make a cost effective car they deleted a lot of unessential weight (which allows for very nice handling feel) matched to decent horsepower and gearing. As to the Cord, it too is lighter weight than comparable cars it's size and also good horsepower and gearing. Edited September 28, 2017 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The key to what John is saying is "well sorted", or maybe a better way of putting it is "restored to new". I have a Cord 812 that has never been restored, and while it runs and drives fine, you can tell by the way it handles that it's worn...heavy steering, doesn't like sharp turns, and so forth. On the other side of the coin, I've driven a perfectly restored Cord 812, and it was an absolute delight. Easy steering, very responsive, and, as John states, one of the best driving cars of the 30's. It ALL depends on condition of mechanical components. We just got a '27 Dodge cabriolet back on the road, a car that someone would probably say is "trucky" driving. This car has rebuilt mechanicals, including a refurbished steering gear, and it is an absolute delight to driver, easy to steer and comfortable to drive, not "trucky" at all... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) Drive-ability "as new" is a concept few people ever "get right" in a restoration - they may make the attempt, but it takes plenty of additional work to get there - it is not uncommon for me to tackle something several times until it is right (and it is usually not for lack of a comprehensive first try - it is some sort of anomaly that happens when restoring 30's cars). A good example is that you generally at some time or another will find my cars on the local race track front end engineering guys Hunter alignment rack - he has set several up per the owner's manual to say "what were they thinking, I think they wrote this wrong or ... - this must be a guide for a starting point when you are at zero ground") and then he tweaks and it is the difference between night and day (and my guess was it was day or close to day to begin with). So, when we have an Auburn out a lot of people shift the conversation to Cords: When they ask about Cords my dad has a line of Questions/Answers: 1. Are you an engineer ? If answer is no, then 2. Are you handy ? If the answer is no then 3. Do you have a lot of disposable income ? And, if the answer is no, then reply is: "You really need one of the three to successfully own a Cord or you will never be happy with anything other than its looks" By the way: Given this is the DuPont page, I would tell you what I like about the DuPont appears to have a component part manufacture mentality as to its drivetrain and I would think you could get one to do what it is supposed to and have an easier time of it than most other of its peers. I can imagine a Cord being pretty mind blowing to the average mechanic when new matched to such as a RRPI or ..... Edited September 28, 2017 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I like you father's questions, but I'd probably say they pertain to most old cars or, at least those that aren't the cookie-cutter mass consumption products. It would be pretty near universally true of brass cars too (except maybe the Model T, which has been studied ad nauseam). I'm always surprised by the number of people involved with old cars that seem to only be interested in what they look like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughs Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Here are a couple of photos of a 1930 DuPont that I had for a time while selling it for the family of a friend who passed away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Steve, I think that car is now in the midwest? Waterhouse body is fantastic. Thanks for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Here is the ad for this model posted by Jeff over in the Peerless thread. I think they made a total of 4 or 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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