fordrodsteven

code 031 - do I need to remove transmission?

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I have the transmission out. I called a transmission shop to see how much they wanted to rebuild it. I told him what is broken and that the transmission is already out of the car.. He said they never even take that part out when they rebuild. They just put a new seal on the shaft. Then he told me he wanted $1,500.00. I said again that the transmission is already out and I would drop it off and pick it up. He said still $1,500.00. I decided to pass on that "deal". I have taken off the side cover and the shift detent is right there. I took the nut off the top and removed the park / neutral switch. The shaft slid right out (upper half came out item #702). It is sheared clean right at the undercut where the locking pin (#703) slides in. I got the nut off the bottom of the detent plate and then tried to pull out the locking pin to get the rest of the shaft out and allow for insertion of the replacement shaft (that I have yet to find anywhere). I cannot get that pin out. Does anyone know if it is pressed in? If I cannot get this apart I might just have to get another whole transmission at the salvage yard and hope it's okay.

park lock and detent.pdf

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Ronnie    369

This is just a guess from a machinists point of view... it looks like the pin might be deformed in the center so it is a one time press fit that might driven in like a nail.

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21 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit, close up photo(s) is better for us to work with.

I didn't think a photo would really show very well where the break is on the shaft. I tried to attach the page from the manual for reference.

 

6 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

I emailed David Allen, told him of your situation, and gave him the link to your last post. I will let you know.

Who is David Allen?

 

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

This is just a guess from a machinists point of view... it looks like the pin might be deformed in the center so it is a one time press fit that might driven in like a nail.

Yes. I saw that it look like something there on the pin. I thought it looked like it might be a sleeve of some sort on the shaft that might lock into a groove in the hole where it is inserted. But, being a retired machinist myself I can probably fabricate some small tool to pull it out. Possibly using some leverage or a slap hammer approach.

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89RedDarkGrey    252

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

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Just now, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

It's a solid pin with a flat head on it. No slots or method for turning (like a torx or a screw)

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Ronnie    369
23 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

I've seen this type of pin before. I don't know the correct name for it. Deforming the diameter of a solid pin is like a crude way of knurling it to hold the pin in place. Usually it would be used in something simple like holding a hinge pin in place -  or something that doesn't require a very accurate fit. I'm surprised that would be used in a transmission but it might be. David Allen should know for sure.

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16 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

Like a nail? Is it a blind hole- or can you see the other end? Maybe a carefully placed chisel under the head?

Yes, Similar to a nail. Yes it's a blind hole. The pin acts as a "Dutchman" I need to get it out if I am to continue with this repair. Then I'll probably worry that it can slide out after re-assembly (IF I can get the shaft to fix it) I am attaching some pictures.

 

 

dutchman pin (1).JPG

sheared shaft.JPG

shaft pin view.JPG

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Ronnie    369

Have you moved it out to that position shown in the photo or was it like that when you started?

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6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Have you moved it out to that position shown in the photo or was it like that when you started?

I'm guessing you are asking about the pin? That pin is exactly as it was positioned when I pulled the cover off. I cannot get it to budge (in or out). Although I have only been "gentle" with it thus far! lol

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Ronnie    369

Yes, the pin. Sorry. I was hoping the transmission guy David Allen would have an answer for you buy now. I understand you wanting to be gentle without knowing for sure what you are working with. If the pin goes in like I suspect, it might pull it right out but who knows? If it is driven in it probably was intended to bite into the aluminum case and is in there pretty tight. Instead of pulling on the head of the pin you might want to get creative with vice grips and pull on the body of the pin in a straight out motion to try to avoid breaking the pin off at the case. Since you are a machinist too you probably have some good ideas of your own about how to get it out.

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12 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Yes, the pin. Sorry. I was hoping the transmission guy David Allen would have an answer for you buy now. I understand you wanting to be gentle without knowing for sure what you are working with. If the pin goes in like I suspect, it might pull it right out but who knows? If it is driven in it probably was intended to bite into the aluminum case and is in there pretty tight. Instead of pulling on the head of the pin you might want to get creative with vice grips and pull on the body of the pin in a straight out motion to try to avoid breaking the pin off at the case. Since you are a machinist too you probably have some good ideas of your own about how to get it out.

First I tried a straight pull using needle nose pliers. Then I tried to pull using a vice grip. (A little difficult to get onto it because of the jaws on the vice grips and the close proximity to the case). Then I tried to pry it using a long handled pry bar but it would bend the pin if I applied more pressure. I stopped there and took care of other life issues. It still awaits my next attempt.

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Ronnie    369

You will come up with a way to get it out. I would avoid bending or twisting it to keep it from breaking.

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89RedDarkGrey    252

Was reading your posts @ROJ. I input your PN from Henning to a parts website I use for reference. It has the correct description and AC Delco PN too. HERE and also cross references to HERE

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12 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

capture-20170710-212549.png.f83b0f4907ebbe88ebc0295ddb12a100.png

When I look at the diagram in the book it appears to be more like a stepped down nail with some sort of collar on it. The collar is probably like a snap ring that opens up a little bit into a groove in the case. I think the 47MM is the length and the 4.16 is the diameter. Otherwise I would expect to see something designating number of threads per MM. something like M10-1.5. Anyway 47MM is definitely not the diameter of this part. (47MM is 1.85 inches). I saw on the close-up that you questioned whether those are threads on the shaft of the pin. Those "threads" stop before it goes into the hole. Might have some purpose for the tooling used to install the pin into the case.

 

8 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

MORE cross referencing-

 

HERE  AND  HERE (sold out)

 

and... a photo! Minus that pin!

 

24236102_primary.jpg.cc0b2e74f5a354563aa2f15ada2ab059.jpg

 

I hope when I get the nut off the bottom of that shaft that I can separate the plate. I can re-assemble into the transmission as long as the shaft drops in the top and goes down into the plate. If I have to slide the shaft up into the hole on the transmission I will have to dis-assemble the valve body that is just below the detent plate.

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89RedDarkGrey    252

Maybe attach a slide hammer to the head, or Vise grips and tap vise grips with hammer. Or- you could just bend the dammed thing back-n-forth, snap it off, file away smooth enough to remove the shaft? Get the new part, then figure out a suitable pin replacement. I'd spend about ten minutes messing with an old broken part like that- that has to come out anyway.

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Ronnie    369
46 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

Maybe attach a slide hammer to the head, or Vise grips and tap vise grips with hammer. Or- you could just bend the dammed thing back-n-forth, snap it off, file away smooth enough to remove the shaft? Get the new part, then figure out a suitable pin replacement. I'd spend about ten minutes messing with an old broken part like that- that has to come out anyway.

 

I don't think that idea of breaking the pin off will work.. Take a look at the photo below.

 

The pin goes through the SIDE of the large hole for the shifter shaft -  approximately in a line I have highlighted in red.  Inside the large hole it goes though the grove in the side of the shifter shaft and continues into a blind hole in the case. The pins purpose is to hold the shifter shaft in place in the hole and still allow it to rotate. In my opinion breaking the head the pin off would only compound an already bad situation.

 

I know you want to help. The best thing you could do to help is get in touch with your friend David Allen and get him to tell us how the pin comes out.

 

59652599b9edb_shifterpin.JPG.392696fdfacb7dfaae6d975806771868.JPG

Edited by Ronnie (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

Maybe attach a slide hammer to the head, or Vise grips and tap vise grips with hammer. Or- you could just bend the dammed thing back-n-forth, snap it off, file away smooth enough to remove the shaft? Get the new part, then figure out a suitable pin replacement. I'd spend about ten minutes messing with an old broken part like that- that has to come out anyway.

I made a slide hammer tool today. I am attaching pictures. I am reluctant to just whack it with the slide hammer because I don't know what method is utilized to hold the pin in the hole. I am also afraid of ripping the head right off the pin if it is held in firmly by some mechanical means rather than by press fit friction.

 

 

Ron is correct in that the pin goes through past the shaft and is used to lock the shaft at a certain height and not move up or down. I am attaching a view of a look down the shaft hole and you can see the pin at the side of the hole. 

 

Another issue is that the pin head is inside the case pan mounting surface and not much access with all the rest of the transmission still assembled. I also appears that I have already slightly bent the pin when I was prying it with a small pry bar.

tool start materials.JPG

modified bolt.JPG

finished adapter.JPG

on pin ready to pull.JPG

view of shaft hole.JPG

case to pinhead.JPG

finished tool.JPG

cutting slot.JPG

Edited by fordrodsteven (see edit history)
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89RedDarkGrey    252

That's some nice fabrication.

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, fordrodsteven said:

Yes, Similar to a nail. Yes it's a blind hole

 

That's what was incorrect, making me incorrect.

 

38 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

In my opinion breaking the head the pin off would only compound an already bad situation.

 

I know you want to help. The best thing you could do to help is get in touch with your friend David Allen and get him to tell us how the pin comes out.

 

Agreed. I will try to contact him again. He may be out of country again.

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