code 031 - do I need to remove transmission?

[fordrodsteven]

I have been getting code E031. so in the trouble code diagnosis section it says to check E174 and it should read "LO" Mine reads "HI". Next step says to disconnect the connector and jump terminals A & B.

 

Okay. So nothing but bad news here. There were many cuss words and now I've finally calmed down enough to just turn off the lights in the garage and come in the house. There's a lot to this story but I'll try to stick to the park/neutral switch for now.
 I decided since the park/neutral switch would be such a PITA to get at I would just get a new one and change it out while I digging to get to it anyway. SO I removed the air inlet tube then the cruise control module and I got down to the park/ neutral switch. I unhooked the shifter and proceeded to take off the shift lever (not). It was really tight. As I tried to loosen the nut the lever pushed further to the park position and felt like it hit a stop. I kept pulling on the wrench to loosen the nut and I thought I broke it loose. Well that didn't happen. Now the shift lever just rotates around 360 degrees and doesn't catch on any detents. I have the feeling I did a bad thing there. I suspect the next move is to pull the transmission to open it up and replace the shift lever internal parts.
My wife is very frustrated over this car. She didn't want me to buy it in the first place. I have enjoyed driving it what little I have. I have done a lot of work on it. I have a for sale sign in the back window but no-one has responded. She says I should just junk it. I'm getting a bit frustrated myself.
Anyway. I need to know how badly I messed this thing up. If I have to pull the tranny that might be that straw that broke the camel's back!

Edited June 8, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

2 hours ago, fordrodsteven said:

My wife is very frustrated over this car. She didn't want me to buy it in the first place

 

2 hours ago, fordrodsteven said:

I have done a lot of work on it.

 

2 hours ago, fordrodsteven said:

She says I should just junk it.

 

2 hours ago, fordrodsteven said:

I have the feeling I did a bad thing there.

 

Well- you can either spend a lot of money- or spend a LOT of money.

 

Any time you wrench on a control mechanism- you must immobilize it before you put stress on it. Yes, it is broken. Yes- the transmission must be removed for this repair. I know- it totally sucks when a $10 part can ruin your car- been there, done that. At least it didn't break somewhere away from home- leaving you stranded.

 

An '88 in decent shape is not intended for some junkyard- contrary to popular belief. Either have it repaired, grin & bear it- or someone here will buy it.

 

PLEASE DO NOT JUNK IT- YOU WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOURSELF.

 

Here is a short video for you- describing the broken part-  https://youtu.be/aitIQxrjWOo

 

[fordrodsteven]

Well I guess one good thing is that it is sitting on the lift in my garage. (that means I cannot work on the other cars on the lift until I pull this one off - no big deal, Just frustrating) I had it there waiting for my new Intermediate cable coming from being made at Inline Tube. (due here tomorrow). I already bought the three new mounts (engine and trans) that go under the car. So, Is it easier to remove engine/trans as a unit or separate the trans and leave the engine in the car? I have angle iron and the tooling (welder, grinders, drills) to make a support to hold anything that needs to be held.

Edited June 8, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

27 minutes ago, fordrodsteven said:

separate the trans and leave the engine in the car

 

THIS WAY

 

OR THIS WAY

[Digger914]

40 minutes ago, fordrodsteven said:

Well I guess one good thing is that it is sitting on the lift in my garage. (that means I cannot work on the other cars on the lift until I pull this one off - no big deal, Just frustrating) I had it there waiting for my new Intermediate cable coming from being made at Inline Tube. (due here tomorrow). I already bought the three new mounts (engine and trans) that go under the car. So, Is it easier to remove engine/trans as a unit or separate the trans and leave the engine in the car? I have angle iron and the tooling (welder, grinders, drills) to make a support to hold anything that needs to be held.

 

Bummer on the tranny.

I saw a $90 ready made adjustable height engine support in the harbor freight catalog a couple of months ago, next time I need one that's where I'm going.

[89RedDarkGrey]

13 minutes ago, Digger914 said:

I saw a $90 ready made adjustable height engine support in the harbor freight catalog

 

I would not use one of those "engine braces" on a Reatta. They are not meant for our configuration, and could possibly fail. A correct T brace is fairly easy to build.

[fordrodsteven]

I have some 1" and 2" square tubing and a bunch of 2" angle iron. There's also a yard not far from here where I can buy pieces of sheet metal and structural steel. I'm sure I can build something pretty stout. It just really sucks when all I was trying to do was get rid of the E031 code. Everything else was working fine and I had the new Intermediate cable coming this week. I have "for sale" signs in the car and I was driving it on errands and to car shows. Now I must fix something I'm trying to sell. I want it to be able to pass inspection and sell it right rather than for parts or junk.

So recommendations? I'm taking it out. Do I get a replacement donor transmission from the salvage yard or open it up and hope I can get the parts I need?

Edited June 9, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

6 minutes ago, fordrodsteven said:

open it up

 

See what's broken first

 

Then- if you have to-

 

7 minutes ago, fordrodsteven said:

get a replacement donor transmission from the salvage yard

 

Who knows? It may be something easily fixable.

 

2" square tubing is fine. 1 for the tower-to-tower span, 1 for the firewall-to-radiator span. Angle iron for the strut towers. Drill 2 holes for the threaded rod to slip through. Weld 2 hooks onto threaded rod, use washers, and nuts, grease them good, lift just enough to take the weight off the cradle. It's a brace not a hoist.

 

If I did it in my driveway, without ANY help at all, and minimal tools- you can do it too.

[fordrodsteven]

1 minute ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

 

See what's broken first

 

Then- if you have to-

 

 

Who knows? It may be something easily fixable.

 Hey! Maybe DRTIDMORE will have parts left that I can buy from him! LOL  We'll see once I get it open. Man, what a PITA!

[89RedDarkGrey]

I might have some sort-of good news for you. I read your postings of this at ROJ. I cropped, enlarged, and annotated the FSM scan Ronnie posted. You stated-

7 hours ago, fordrodsteven said:

As I tried to loosen the nut the lever pushed further to the park position and felt like it hit a stop. I kept pulling on the wrench to loosen the nut and I thought I broke it loose. Well that didn't happen. Now the shift lever just rotates around 360 degrees and doesn't catch on any detents.

 

The detent plate (lever & pilot asm, inside detent #704) can only travel so far- then it hits the case. Then- more than likely- the continued twisting sheared the shifting shaft (#702), at the bottom nut (#705), and the nut is at the bottom of the case (where the rotating assembly is). If drtidmore could please check his gutted T65E, and see if this theory is possible?

 

 

The engine + transmission can be jacked from underneath, drop the Cradle, then tip the entire powertrain down, side cover off, and recover that nut and replace that shaft- or have one machined (it's nothing special) or buy one from someone...

 

I would advise you to not start the engine, or roll the car on the front wheels at all- not 1 inch. The rotating assembly could snag that nut, and ruin the transmission. It is also not likely in PARK, and could roll.

 

(put a marble in a clothes dryer)

 

Refer to THIS VIDEO for a brief description of "In-frame transmission work".

[drtidmore]

20 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

The detent plate (lever & pilot asm, inside detent #704) can only travel so far- then it hits the case. Then- more than likely- the continued twisting sheared the shifting shaft (#702), at the bottom nut (#705), and the nut is at the bottom of the case (where the rotating assembly is). If drtidmore could please check his gutted T65E, and see if this theory is possible?

 

 

 

I just finished reading this thread and I have a lot of empathy.  What 89RDG describes is correct and matches what I found as I tore down the 65E (same design as 440T4).  I had ZERO issues with the nut above the selector switch assembly so no torque was needed to remove it on the 65E teardown. 

 

The suspect assembly is deep inside the inner most sanctum of the temple of rotating parts.  There is almost no clearance in this area so I TOTALLY concur that you should NOT, I repeat, should NOT, start the engine as the torque converter will immediately start spinning the various parts of the rotating assembly (i.e. the heart of the transmission) regardless of position of the shift selector!  What at this point is a PITA to fix, can be made a LOT worse if you start the engine!

 

As for pushing the car, probably not even a possibility as from what you indicated the transmission parking pawl is engaged and there is NO way to disengage it.  FYI, the parts of the transmission that would move during a push should not cause any damage (differential and output shaft are what would move during a push).  The rotating parts along the circumference of the transmission rotating section would NOT be rotated.  AGAIN, DO NOT START THE ENGINE!  If you have a set of car dollys to put under the front wheels, that would allow you to move it around without risking any further damage and would get around the fact that the front wheels are locked in park. 

 

There is a possibility that you have not broken the shaft but rather rounded out the slot in the detent, but if the shaft did snap at the lower nut, then there are pieces now laying against rotating sections.  You ARE going to have to venture inside the transmission.  Can this be done in-frame? yes, especially since the area you need to access is close to the side pan. You are going to have to remove all the fluid (I like using an electric oil extraction pump) and drop the bottom pan and remove a few parts, then support the engine and remove the driver's side steering & suspension, remove both drive shafts (careful with the inner CV joint as they want to pull apart when removing them from the transmission) , remove at least the half of the engine cradle (everyone says to just take the entire thing out as it is easier), then lower the engine/transmission down at an angle so that you can access the side of it from the driver's side wheel well, remove the side pan, the drive/driven sprockets and chain, the 4th clutch frictions/steels, the 4th clutch hub/shaft, the pump housing, the valve body and the channel plate.  DO NOT ATTEMPT to remove the turbine shaft that the pump shaft runs thru as there is an o-ring on the other side that MUST be removed first and you have to drop the transmission and pull the torque converter to get to the o-ring.  If that o-ring gets damaged you will have NO torque converter lockup!  Then you are going to have to pull out the driven sprocket support, the reverse band and the 2nd clutch drum before you have clear access to the shifter assembly.  As you pull things apart, DO NOT GET IN HURRY!  Photograph everything in way more detail than you think you will need to ensure that reassembly goes smoothly.  Bag and tag EVERYTHING that you remove.  Cleanliness can NOT be overemphasized!  Keep everything in clean plastic tubs as you go along.  AGAIN, do NOT allow ANY contamination of parts once you get past the side pan cover.  

 

There ARE check balls once you remove the pump housing and more between the valve body and the channel plate.  Don't bother trying to keep them in place or remembering where they go, just remove them and then use the ATSG manual as a guide to reinstall them on reassembly.  There is a thin steel separator plate between the valve body and the channel plate with gaskets covering BOTH sides.  If the gaskets look ok, then you may be able to reuse the sandwich but if the gaskets stick to either the valve body OR the channel plate, then you will have to replace them. 

 

Getting the ATSG 440T4 manual and at least the first of the two revised addendum manuals is an ABSOLUTELY NECESSITY as the bolts you remove are varying length and must to torqued to the EXACT specification, plus the manual is an excellent guide during reassembly.  This is not an area where snug then a bit more will DO.  You either pay attention to EVERY detail or you will be back in the transmission later, most likely sooner, with MORE damage.  The ATSG manuals can be located on eBay or direct from ATSG.  I found mine on eBay cheaper and got hard copy versions. EVEN from ATSG they are not expensive at $30 each.  ATSG no longer sells the hard copy versions, only a CD, of the 440T4 manuals unfortunately.  The GM 440T4 manual is also helpful but you can do this with ONLY the ATSG manuals.  I would also watch and rewatch and then rewatch again the 3 part 440T4 rebuild that David Allen posted to get a better visual lay of the land on the 440T4. Get to the point where you have a solid mental picture of the order of the project as well as what each part looks like.  Then assume you know nothing and follow the video and manuals to the tee!

 

VIDEO #1

 

VIDEO #2

 

VIDEO #3

 

As you are going this deep into the transmission, I would take the opportunity to just do a rebuild.  You are only a few steps away from having the entire guts of the tranny removed.  The additional effort is minimal as the hard part is getting to the point where you MUST go to fix the damaged shift selector assembly.  Given the miles and age on your current 440T4 and the level of required disassembly just to fix the issue at hand, going the extra distance to pull and rebuild the tranny is not that big a leap.  I understand that tearing into a tranny comes with a level of trepidation, but with David A's videos and the ATSG manual, some patience and a LOT of attention to detail, it really is NOT that big a deal and doing the rebuild NOW likely will save you a revisit down the road. 

 

As you have indicated that you plan to have the engine supported from above, I can tell you that if you do decide to do the rebuild, just drop the transmission out as working on it will be a LOT less frustration in the clear as compared to in-frame, but the choice is yours.

 

SO, you are likely thinking that getting a salvaged 440T4 and dropping it in is preferable to what I have briefly described and on the surface that might seem logical, but that is deceiving.  First off, the Reatta's 440T4 was fairly unique in that it used a 37/33 drive/driven sprocket set and a 3.33:1 differential which combined give the final overall drive ratio of 2.97:1 in 3rd gear (i.e. unity thru the transmission).  Any salvaged 440T4 would need that same setup and again, only a fraction of the 440T4s installed in GM cars were configured like the Reatta (Cadillac and some Buick).  Granted you can bolt on any old 440T4 and it will work, but the speedometer won't be correct, the shift points will be off from desired and depending on the overall drive ratio in the salvaged tranny, performance/economy will be impacted.  And this totally ignores that fact that ANY 440T4 you might find in a salvage yard is going to be at least 27 years old (GM replaced the 440T4 in 1991 with the 4T60E) with unknown internals. 

 

The cost of doing a straightforward 440T4 rebuild is not all that much.  A Super/Deluxe overhaul kit (all seals, gaskets, bushings, frictions, steels, filter) is around $230-$250.  The TransGo SK-440-JR system correction kit which is HIGHLY recommended is another $43 (eBay).  If you want to go with a reman'ed torque converter for piece of mind, that is another $135.  I would recommend a complete flush of ALL the existing transmission fluid with a total replacement using Dextron VI (yes it is compatible per GM for ALL GM transmission regardless of model) and that is going to set you back another $75 or so.  So for around $500 and your time, you can have a transmission that will take you down the road for many, many years and miles.

 

FYI, as you are obviously reading my 440/65E hybrid build thread, you know that I have chosen a bit more convoluted solution using most of an improved 4T65E transmission internals.  This was MY choice, NOT a requirement, NOT even a necessity, just what I wanted to do.  Certainly, a stock 440T4 rebuild is NOT a bad choice. 

 

It really sucks when an inexpensive, small part, forces a major teardown.  

 

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[ChrisWhewell]

Wow, some great postings here. Sorry to hear about your trans issue. If it were me, I'd write down the various options and put a time figure next to each, like how many hours each potential path might take, then balance it against cost and what else I have going on in life. On a trans, I generally just buy a rebuilt that comes with a guarantee. If selling the car, its a great selling point that the trans is new. So, in a way, a rebuilt with a warranty would help you achieve your aim of selling the vehicle !!

Edited June 9, 2017 by ChrisWhewell (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

2 hours ago, ChrisWhewell said:

On a trans, I generally just buy a rebuilt that comes with a guarantee. If selling the car, its a great selling point that the trans is new. So, in a way, a rebuilt with a warranty would help you achieve your aim of selling the vehicle !!

The problem is finding a rebuilt with the required 37/33 drive/driven sprockets AND the 3.33:1 differential.  Given that any 440T4 rebuild process starts with the insertion of the differential, changing it is a big deal. The vast majority of the 440T4s were build with the 2.84 or the 3.06 differential and 35/35 sprockets.  A small subset with the 3.33 diff builds were done using 35/35 sprocket set as well.   The sprockets can be changed a lot easier and finding the 37/33 set is not a big issue, but the 3.33:1 differential is pretty much unobtainium (I have been looking and have found NONE!)  Also, the market for rebuilt 440T4s is insignificant (last installed new in a few '91 models), so even finding a rebuilt 440T4 is questionable. There are NO simple or inexpensive ways to adapt the later versions of the 440 family (i.e. 4T60E or 4T65E).  Fortunately, there are sufficient soft part overhaul kits out there for the 440T4 but the supply of replacement hard parts has already reached the point where of some hard parts are no longer available new, even from 3rd parties.  

 

It was the whole approaching unobtainium status of 440T4 hard parts that led me to seriously consider the full-up 4T65E drop-in but as I stated in my thread, while I came up with solutions to ALL the technical issues, the cost of doing so got out of hand quickly and the solutions were NOT plug and play!  It was also the diminishing availability of 440T4/4T60parts  (same trans, GM just renamed it starting in late '89) that helped push me to the hybrid as the vast majority of the hybrid IS 65E parts which opens up opportunities to replace worn parts or upgrade to better versions.  

 

If the DIY is a bit too much, then the most logical approach is to have a reputable transmission shop tear it down and either just fix the damage or go ahead and do the full rebuild and hopefully provide a guarantee.   I am not saying that a rebuilt 440T4 with the correct sprockets and differential can't be found, but the odds approach zero due to the age and the uniqueness of this specific configuration. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

 

I looked to see if I had any good pics from my 65E teardown of the area and this is the only one that gives you a good idea of how deeply buried things are regarding the shaft in question.  Near the top you can clearly see the selector and the protruding shaft.  At this stage of the teardown, the side pan, the pump and valve body have already been removed.  What fills most of the pic is the channel plate.  Behind the channel plate are the drive/driven sprockets and chain, the 4th clutch, the 4th clutch hub/shaft, the driven sprocket support and finally the 2nd clutch/drum assembly.  It is the 2nd clutch drum that prevents you from getting to the shaft so that is why it is necessary to tear down to this extent.  

Edited June 9, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[fordrodsteven]

I YI YI !! I really did it good this time!! Now seriously..... The battery was already disconnected before any of this happened. The car is also on the lift in the garage so I don't have to move it in any direction except up or down.  Yeah not a really big deal. I've been working on cars for 50 years now and I have plenty of the required tools to do most anything. Years ago I use to change out engines and transmissions for people as a side job. Just now I'm a little older and don't care to be "thrashing" around out in the garage. I will make a holding fixture for the engine first before I go any further. It just chaps my hide because I would much rather do pretty much anything else rather than this transmission job. Thank you guys for all the information here in this thread. I'll be coming back and reviewing this thread more than once I am sure! It will at least give me a knowledgeable viewpoint rather than just taking shots in the dark as I go along.

 

5 hours ago, ChrisWhewell said:

Wow, some great postings here. Sorry to hear about your trans issue. If it were me, I'd write down the various options and put a time figure next to each, like how many hours each potential path might take, then balance it against cost and what else I have going on in life. On a trans, I generally just buy a rebuilt that comes with a guarantee. If selling the car, its a great selling point that the trans is new. So, in a way, a rebuilt with a warranty would help you achieve your aim of selling the vehicle !!

Chris, I don't want to pay the cost of a shop to do the rebuild because it would cost more than what I think I can get for the car as a fully functioning driving unit. I'm good with fixing it myself.... Ain't skeered!

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

On 6/8/2017 at 8:00 PM, fordrodsteven said:

 Hey! Maybe DRTIDMORE will have parts left that I can buy from him! LOL  We'll see once I get it open. Man, what a PITA!

Steve,

I don't know if the detent assembly from the 65E is compatible with the 440T4 and I don't have my 440T4 opened up yet for a comparison. My donor 65E does have the external range switch (neutral safety switch on 440T4) so the shaft length should be similar.   As I will be keeping the 440 case I will need to retain the 440T4 detent parts for the hybrid build but if the parts from the 65E are the same, then yes, I would gladly sell those to you.  GM did not do a total redesign with the 65E so there is at least a potential that the parts are interchangeable.   I am afraid that you may have a challenge in finding the parts.  If it is the detent plate rounded out, have a machine shop restore the part.   If it is the shaft, a good machine shop could machine you a replacement as there is nothing all that special about it.  This is recoverable, but may require some ingenuity to resolve.  

Edited June 10, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[ChrisWhewell]

Theres one dude out there with a SC Reatta, I think it was silver and supposed to be previously owned by a GM exec. I wonder what drivetrain is in that car....

[89RedDarkGrey]

 

[ChrisWhewell]

The transmission is near the very end of that video but I can't make out which trans it is

[drtidmore]

It is 440T4/4T60 as it has the spider cage mount and the stamped metal side pan.  GM did a 4T60-HD (heavier differential, heavier output shaft, heavier CV joints, heavier drive shafts) for the SC Grand Prix in this same time period, so it likely that is what is sitting in the car, as he claims that this entire build was done at the factory, so access to such would not have been an issue, but based on the spider cage mount and stamped side pan that is NOT a 4T60E or 4T65E as BOTH of those used the cast aluminum side pan and NO spider cage support.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

I had watched that video several times over the past few years and I just now noticed that it had the '88 glove box as there is NO latch!  Then I found where they located the buttons for the fuel door and trunk but wonder where they put the release button for the glove box?

 

[ChrisWhewell]

I've only seen it about 3 times. But I noticed the script on glovebox and running boards that says "Supercharged" appears to be of the same script as the Series II SC Riv's which came way later than 90. Also, my 90 has an airbag steering wheel and the SC 1990 model steer wheel appears from a different MY. I wasn't aware transmission issues are so huge on our cars until this thread.

[fordrodsteven]

1 hour ago, ChrisWhewell said:

I wasn't aware transmission issues are so huge on our cars until this thread.

LOL. My transmission didn't really have any problems until I did the damage myself. I'm currently fabricating the engine support today. I was starting to take pics. I dropped the camera and then had to go buy a new camera. Damn! I'm just stringing together a whole bunch of bad things! LOL I'm almost afraid to touch anything else around here!

[89RedDarkGrey]

56 minutes ago, ChrisWhewell said:

I wasn't aware transmission issues are so huge on our cars until this thread.

 

Well- I'm partly to blame for this latest wave- seeing what I went through, and my kicking and prodding others to have confidence and do more DIY instead of paying Shops huge sums, that might otherwise discourage owners into selling or junking their car.

 

Remember- Reattas were all built in a 4 year timeframe, by hand, by virtually the same crew- using the samely produced lots of components- with very few variations from '88-'91. Except for major parts like the powertrain, IPC, etc. most things are interchangeable, and all the same age.

 

What does that boil down to?

 

Our Reattas are now reaching a point- where the transmissions will need work, the ABS components are failing, the interiors are fading, drying out- the paint is old, radiators leak, engines wear, etc. and we are at the mercy of a rare supply of NOS OEM, a dwindling supply of used, and a hit-or-miss cross referencing of either higher production similar cars, or so-so questionable Aftermarket knockoff parts- or fabricating our own. Sure- there are a few examples of Reatta of all 4 years, that are in near Showroom quality- but I wouldn't rely on it as an everyday driver. I didn't buy my '89 to restore and Show; I bought it to restore and drive. It needs a paint job and the AC rebuilt- but those things don't get you around. My Reatta was a $1,400 non-running neglected box of parts when I rescued it- but now, 6 years and a little over $3k of parts later- it flawlessly starts in the coldest of Winter, handles like a new car, and makes me happy. (knock on wood)

 

That's what counts the most to me.

[drtidmore]

On 6/10/2017 at 1:02 PM, ChrisWhewell said:

 I wasn't aware transmission issues are so huge on our cars until this thread.

These 440T4 have really been solid transmissions. The genesis for the 440T4 goes back to the THM 125 (no 4th OD).   It is not uncommon for these trannys to run well over 250K miles, but then again, some fail sooner.  I suspect that when I get into mine, it is stuck spool in the valve body NOT the actual clutches, bands, or planetary gears.  It failed without any warnings and there are NO metal, plastic, or clutch parts in the pan, which leaves the valve body very suspect.  As there are no metal shavings or flakes, that also preliminarily absolves the pump assembly which can spew metal shavings directly into the valve body sticking spools in the process.  I have read that the 2nd clutch spool is prone to wear and sticking and that is what I expect to find.  Fortunately there is a solution to that situation.

 

That said, when GM undertook the 4T65E transmission, they kept what had worked so well in the original design and improved the areas that a decade of 440T4 service had exposed as wear points. Even then they still made a few more, backward compatible improvements to the 4T65E starting in 2003.  It is the common heritage shared by the 440T4 and the 4T65E that makes the hybrid possible. 

 

I have not seen any surges in 440T4 failures here on the forum, but quite a few junked Reatta's have found the graveyard over transmission issues that the owners felt were too expensive to repair (partly due to the high prices of transmission repair shops).  But the 440T4s are ALL getting old and tired and the bad news is the parts for the 440T4 are slowly fading away.  As I mentioned, the soft parts are still plentiful but hard parts options are dwindling.  As time marches on, more and more Reatta owners will be faced with what to do regarding transmission issues.  My choosing to follow David Allen's pioneering lead to transplant the vast majority of the 4T65E into the 440T4 case will hopefully allow others to keep their Reatta on the road for many more miles.  

Edited June 13, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[fordrodsteven]

Getting ready to start. I fabricated this engine support today.

 

[fordrodsteven]

I have the transmission out. I called a transmission shop to see how much they wanted to rebuild it. I told him what is broken and that the transmission is already out of the car.. He said they never even take that part out when they rebuild. They just put a new seal on the shaft. Then he told me he wanted $1,500.00. I said again that the transmission is already out and I would drop it off and pick it up. He said still $1,500.00. I decided to pass on that "deal". I have taken off the side cover and the shift detent is right there. I took the nut off the top and removed the park / neutral switch. The shaft slid right out (upper half came out item #702). It is sheared clean right at the undercut where the locking pin (#703) slides in. I got the nut off the bottom of the detent plate and then tried to pull out the locking pin to get the rest of the shaft out and allow for insertion of the replacement shaft (that I have yet to find anywhere). I cannot get that pin out. Does anyone know if it is pressed in? If I cannot get this apart I might just have to get another whole transmission at the salvage yard and hope it's okay.

park lock and detent.pdf

[89RedDarkGrey]

A brightly lit, close up photo(s) is better for us to work with.

[89RedDarkGrey]

I emailed David Allen, told him of your situation, and gave him the link to your last post. I will let you know.

[Ronnie]

This is just a guess from a machinists point of view... it looks like the pin might be deformed in the center so it is a one time press fit that might driven in like a nail.

[fordrodsteven]

21 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit, close up photo(s) is better for us to work with.

I didn't think a photo would really show very well where the break is on the shaft. I tried to attach the page from the manual for reference.

 

6 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

I emailed David Allen, told him of your situation, and gave him the link to your last post. I will let you know.

Who is David Allen?

 

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

This is just a guess from a machinists point of view... it looks like the pin might be deformed in the center so it is a one time press fit that might driven in like a nail.

Yes. I saw that it look like something there on the pin. I thought it looked like it might be a sleeve of some sort on the shaft that might lock into a groove in the hole where it is inserted. But, being a retired machinist myself I can probably fabricate some small tool to pull it out. Possibly using some leverage or a slap hammer approach.

[89RedDarkGrey]

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

[fordrodsteven]

Just now, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

It's a solid pin with a flat head on it. No slots or method for turning (like a torx or a screw)

[89RedDarkGrey]

Like a nail? Is it a blind hole- or can you see the other end? Maybe a carefully placed chisel under the head?

[Ronnie]

23 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

A brightly lit photo of pin. David Allen is the Transmission Tech buddy of mine- I hooked Drtidmore up with, to help him.

 

I agree with Ronnie- it is a "roll" pin or a solid pin?

I've seen this type of pin before. I don't know the correct name for it. Deforming the diameter of a solid pin is like a crude way of knurling it to hold the pin in place. Usually it would be used in something simple like holding a hinge pin in place -  or something that doesn't require a very accurate fit. I'm surprised that would be used in a transmission but it might be. David Allen should know for sure.

[fordrodsteven]

16 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

Like a nail? Is it a blind hole- or can you see the other end? Maybe a carefully placed chisel under the head?

Yes, Similar to a nail. Yes it's a blind hole. The pin acts as a "Dutchman" I need to get it out if I am to continue with this repair. Then I'll probably worry that it can slide out after re-assembly (IF I can get the shaft to fix it) I am attaching some pictures.

 

 

[Ronnie]

Have you moved it out to that position shown in the photo or was it like that when you started?

[fordrodsteven]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Have you moved it out to that position shown in the photo or was it like that when you started?

I'm guessing you are asking about the pin? That pin is exactly as it was positioned when I pulled the cover off. I cannot get it to budge (in or out). Although I have only been "gentle" with it thus far! lol

[Ronnie]

Yes, the pin. Sorry. I was hoping the transmission guy David Allen would have an answer for you buy now. I understand you wanting to be gentle without knowing for sure what you are working with. If the pin goes in like I suspect, it might pull it right out but who knows? If it is driven in it probably was intended to bite into the aluminum case and is in there pretty tight. Instead of pulling on the head of the pin you might want to get creative with vice grips and pull on the body of the pin in a straight out motion to try to avoid breaking the pin off at the case. Since you are a machinist too you probably have some good ideas of your own about how to get it out.

[fordrodsteven]

12 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Yes, the pin. Sorry. I was hoping the transmission guy David Allen would have an answer for you buy now. I understand you wanting to be gentle without knowing for sure what you are working with. If the pin goes in like I suspect, it might pull it right out but who knows? If it is driven in it probably was intended to bite into the aluminum case and is in there pretty tight. Instead of pulling on the head of the pin you might want to get creative with vice grips and pull on the body of the pin in a straight out motion to try to avoid breaking the pin off at the case. Since you are a machinist too you probably have some good ideas of your own about how to get it out.

First I tried a straight pull using needle nose pliers. Then I tried to pull using a vice grip. (A little difficult to get onto it because of the jaws on the vice grips and the close proximity to the case). Then I tried to pry it using a long handled pry bar but it would bend the pin if I applied more pressure. I stopped there and took care of other life issues. It still awaits my next attempt.