tomtinker

1923 Chandler Chummy

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I have a 1923 Chandler Chummy.  Does any have any information as to what model Borg Beck Clutch belongs in it?   Also what brand/model number of transmission?  Over the years it has traveled through many hands.  No way will it shift gears (heavy grinding and won't  engage.  I cannot locate transmission name.  Maybe a model 576  manufacture AR?  It has a Borg Beck clutch in it now.  Been through it twice now.  I have the 1/2 inch space between the transmission brake and collar.  I also have the 2 3/16 inch distance between the face of the collar and face of clutch plate.  Acts like it is not releasing from the spline shaft.  

 

Any ideas?

Edited by tomtinker
correct model number (see edit history)

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On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:13 PM, tomtinker said:

Does any have any information as to what model Borg Beck Clutch belongs in it?   Also what brand/model number of transmission? 

I know a place in Mass that can look up the clutch info I would think, .....not sure about the trans, because I have never asked him about that type of ID trans search, (so I wouldn't know if he has the parts books for that type of search..)

 

I see you point for wanting the Clutch info I suppose, but I don't use books for a issue like yours.  I take stuff apart only enough to see how it works as far as trans brake, actuation of it, as far as if it gets enough.  The trans info I would not care about here in my shop, as if the pieces all fit to the clutch systems and in turn, the engine...I just determine the issue and correct it.

 

All I can say for giving you confidence, rather than give you some "blanket statement' bad news is >  I can fix it.  But I am in Eastern CT.

 

For now, I have very little precise info or pics from your post so far,  to "web help you" ...but I never had a car that can't be fixed in a case like this where we don't have a smashed case and other completely destroyed pieces like gears, shafts etc...THEN you'd have a big problem that needs massive $$ for custom made gears, etc

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On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:13 PM, tomtinker said:

 

 

I am tryind to find out how I would at first, see if the friction disc is being releassedActs like it is not releasing from the spline shaft.  

 

Any ideas?

Add some more info:

 

-Is the car an open or closed driveshaft

-Describe the clutch friction type, like a true disc, a cone or mulita plate

-If a true disc, can you see the disc at all, from edge or backside etc

 

I am trying to set a path as to the first step I'd do, which is seeing or feeling, if the friction grip is releasing, car not running, just sitting there with pedal movement tests for now

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Remove all the spark plugs and have a friend step on the clutch with it in first gear. Now go to the front and see if you can crank the engine without the car creeping. If so the clutch is free, if not remove the transmission and take a look at what is going on. The disk could be stuck to the flywheel.

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Thanks.  I have had the transmission and clutch out twice.  First time, was a lot of rust and dirt.  That was all cleaned up.  Every thing is enclosed in the flywheel.  Can only see the face of the retractor collar.  Have instructions as to distance should be between the face of the retractor collar and clutch brake..  I have those distances.  Also a couple of check distances and positons.  I have those.  Since can not see any of the internals, it makes believe the retractor collar is not clearing the splines.  That is why I am question the if I have the proper Clutch for the car or proper transmission.  IE the transmission spline is to long, or the retractor collar to long.  When the clutch is fully depressed against the clutch brake it still turns.  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, tomtinker said:

That is why I am question the if I have the proper Clutch for the car or proper transmission

 

Now I understand about the clutch ID inquiry.  The person who I referred to, runs a 60+ year long antique auto parts business, mostly all NORS or some NOS/used parts.  He therefore has assembled the largest collection of original, ancient parts supply books that probably exist today, in one location.

 

He is one man operation. No website, no cell, no text, no secretary, no phone recorder or caller ID.  Keep calling if he is busy out in the many warehouses. He is truly a "rare find", and rarely has an misleading info "error" showing up in any old book.

 

Days open are M,T, no Wednesdays, T, F, and 1/2 Saturday.  Have every scrap of known info written down prior to your call...he will want/need that total info you have.

 

Coded phone number to prevent robot telemarket stealing is:

 

One-413, 283, seven six two zero.   Company name is N.B. Pease & Co, Palmer Mass. 

 

.

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Ok, Now have the clutch somewhat working.  When I have it up on blocks can go through the gears smoothly.  When trying to drive it, It will not shift under a "load".

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4 minutes ago, tomtinker said:

When trying to drive it, It will not shift under a "load".

 

So when driving and you attempt to shift, can you get it out of the current gear into neutral? If not, clutch is sticking?

 

If you can get it into neutral, is it technique that is the problem? On a cold start, I have to double clutch upwards to change, or change very quickly, depending on the oil in the gearbox.

 

We can't help you unless you give us all the symptoms. What oil is in the gearbox? Which part of the shift is difficult? What technique are you using? Is this on both up and down?

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It will not allow me to shift into another gear without grinding, will not engage.  When up on blocks with no drag on wheels can shift through gears with not problem at all. With car a dead stop can shift into any gear.  I think it maybe the "clutch brake" not working.  Had just put new disc in clutch.  The pad for the Clutch Brake appears to be new.  

 

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In case you're not aware, on a car equipped with a clutch brake, depress the clutch pedal all the way ONLY at a stop, as in shifting into 1st or reverse.  While underway, depress the clutch pedal only half-way for shifts so as to NOT actuate the clutch brake.

 

I suggest you have someone depress the clutch to different levels while you see at which point in the pedal travel that the clutch brake engages--then adjust either the brake or your driving techniques.

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1923 Chandler was built before the synchromesh transmission was invented. It probably has  straight cut 'crash box' gears. You have to synchronize the speeds of the different gears yourself, or shift slowly. It should be all right shifting up if you take your time, once the oil in the trans is warmed up. If it will not go into low at a dead stop the clutch is dragging.

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