Dennis Jones Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Hello, my car is a 1933 Chevrolet Master 5 Window Coupe - I have installed a new throw-out bearing, clutch throw-out bearing plate and fork ball support. I am having trouble reinstalling the transmission. I have been able to insert the transmission mainshaft through the splines on the friction disk, but I can't get it into the pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft. Does anyone know of an easy way or a trick for getting the mainshaft end installed into the pilot bushing? Its so close, but it obviously isn't into the bushing yet. Thanks,Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordrodsteven Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I'm assuming that when you say the "throw out bearing plate" you are referring to what I call the pressure plate. It has the fingers or a diaphragm that the throw out bearing pushes to disengage the trans from the engine when shifting gears. When you changed the pressure plate the clutch (friction) plate probably moved a little bit. It is very important that everything is in-line. Close enough is not good enough. You most likely need a clutch alignment tool. You can go to the parts store and through their tool loan program you can get one to align the components of your clutch / pressure plate system. Once everything is lined up it should slide in okay. Good luck! By the way - since you were already there why didn't you also change out the clutch (friction) plate? Edited June 1, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) BEAUTIFUL car! Yes....a clutch alignment tool. You can get various sizes at the local parts store or if you have a spare input shaft from another transmission, you can use that to align things. Edited June 2, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I've found this helpful: 1. Get two long bolts with same threads as trans-to-bellhousing bolts. Cut off heads and make a screwdriver slot in the shank where the head was. Screw these finger tight into the top two bellhousing bolt holes. Use as pilots so you're not using all your strength to hold the tranny up, and to achieve general up-down and left-right alignment. After you get the other bolts in place, remove the pilots with a slotted screwdriver and replace with the factory bolts. 2. Place the transmission in high gear, and wiggle the output flange to align the input shaft's splines with those of the clutch disc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 ^EXCELLENT idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacerman Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just be sure the modified bolts are not long enough to collide with any protrusion(s) on the sides of the transmission or shifter parts (if it has a side shifter). I made that mistake in the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, pacerman said: Just be sure the modified bolts are not long enough to collide with any protrusion(s) on the sides of the transmission or shifter parts (if it has a side shifter). You're absolutely correct! I should have mentioned to check that. Additionally, in cars with X-frames or when installing an overdrive transmission, you need to measure how far to the rear you can move the tail of the transmission, so that you can move it forward on to the pilots. In the case of an OD trans AND an X-frame, I've used a transmission jack to tilt the trans, then installed the pilot thru the ear on the trans case and into the bellhousing while adjusting the up/down with the jack. Having an assistant to juggle the jack is almost essential in such cases. By the way, hardware store bolts will do just fine as pilots. Be sure to save them for Next Time, which according to a corollary to Murphy's Law, means you'll never need to pull that tranny again.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 A couple of thoughts, + 1: Clutch alignment tools, the wooden dowel looking type are very inexpensive; get one. Could it be that the clutch plate is installed backwards, causing the problem? Is the tranny close enough to the bell housing that the transmission bolts may be started and tightened? If yes, perhaps so doing so in gradual, alternating, steps may function to pop it in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I was able to fit the transmission splines through the clutch friction disk. It wouldn't go into the pilot bushing so I got long bolts and tried cinching it into the bushing. It would only go in about 1/8" and stop. A little history here, when I removed the transmission I had to use a crow bar to work the transmission away from the bell housing. As I haven't worked on an old car since I was basically a teenager (I'm 66 now) I thought that was strange, but at the time I didn't give it much thought. Now I'm thinking there must be a problem with the pilot bushing. I will once again remove the transmission and try to find a way to measure the inside diameter of that bushing and see if it is large enough for the input shaft to fit into. And yes, I was in a hurry and I didn't remove the clutch from the flywheel. So I just assumed that as I hadn't touched the clutch itself the transmission should have just fit right back in. Live and learn, and be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 So, you did not replace the pilot shaft bushing? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Keiser31......No I didn't replace the pilot shaft bushing. And because I never even removed the clutch because the clutch itself had always worked fine, I thought I wouldn't need to even look at the pilot bushing. Obviously I was wrong, and should have taken everyone's advice and removed the clutch to inspect it while I had the transmission out. Now I'm only hoping I didn't damage the transmission by trying to draw it up to the bell housing with longer bolts. Sometimes I amaze myself at how dumb I can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Dennis Jones said: Now I'm only hoping I didn't damage the transmission by trying to draw it up to Nope, it would have snapped the bolting ears off of the transmission, before it could hurt the internals of the transmission. Not to loose sleep on that worry, or your mistake in judgement. Since the beginning of time, it is said that you never really learn as much by a "random chance" success, rather, you always gain 100% solid knowledge each time you fail. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Don't feel bad. We have all missed things we should have done. My first day at Firestone....oil and antifreeze change in a customer's car. Empty the systems and go get the oil and antifreeze out of the storage area. Got distracted and started pouring in the fluids. Next thing I knew, I was sliding all over the place and couldn't stand up. I landed in a pool of antifreeze and water mixture because I failed to close the radiator petcock and put the oil plug back in.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, F&J said: you always gain 100% solid knowledge each time you fail. In my case, though, the really hard part is remembering the lesson I taught myself for more than a couple of months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Are you sure you had the gearbox lined up perfectly square? Even a little misalignment (e.g. hanging down or slightly sideways) can cause difficulty getting the pinion in the pilot bearing. I had to wiggle the '36 around a bit to get it to go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks guys. I will pull everything apart and try again. Also, I did a little reading today. My parts book says my crankshaft should have a real ball bearing for the pilot bearing (mine is a Master (CA) model). The book says the 1933 Standard should have the bushing in it. I'm pretty sure when I looked through the clutch/friction disk it looked to me like it was a bushing. I didn't know that until today looking through the book. So if mine does indeed have a bushing I think its wrong. I will pull the clutch this time and determine it for sure. And put the correct bearing in it. I will be pretty busy for the next week and might not have to get back to it right away. But when I figure out what is going on I'll get back to this thread to let you know. I do appreciate your inputs. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 A clutch alignment tool for modern (70's-80's) era GM works for these cars I was going to say I believe you should have a ball bearing pilot. I have a simple plastic tool from Kline that came with a clutch for a 72'Blazer that I've been using for my early Chevys. If you put any sort of force on the clutch pedal while the trans was out it could have allowed the disk to drop enough to get you out of alignment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Simmons Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Force is NOT your friend when it comes to pilot bearings or bushings. Ask me how I know this. I've more than one story on this and a couple of them star Chevrolet 6's. Take your time the car and your enjoyment of it will thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 A transmission jack that allows you to adjust the angle of atttack as well as height is a very nice tool to have. I have an attachment to my big floor jack that has been a real help to me. My days of being able to just muscle these things around are over. I also have a taller one for use under the lift, but have not had it in play yet. Agree with the alignment pin idea as well. Assuming the disk is centered, the jack and pins should help it slide right in. My bet is you moved the disk when you were horsing the transmission around trying to get it out. Ideally, nothing is bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 I am still at a loss here. I decided I need to remove the clutch and check the pilot bearing. Everything looks good as far as the clutch goes. But I'm now trying to remove and replace the pilot bearing. So, I'm having more trouble removing the pilot bearing from my 33 Chevy Master Coupe than I've ever heard of. Today I broke a sturdy pilot bearing puller trying to remove it. It didn't even budge. Not even a little bit. I've never run into this before. Anyone have any idea's? Its like its rusted in place or something. I'm wondering if I need to apply a heat gun to it and then use another puller on it. I tried all of the usual tricks like packing it with grease and pounding a dowel into it. Then I used water soaked bread, then I tried water soaked paper and it didn't budge. So I ended up filing down a real puller to fit into it and I was really cranking on it and it ended up breaking the puller. Geez, I would have thought the bearing itself would have been pulled apart before that sturdy steel puller would break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 Thanks to Harbor Freight. I bought a slide hammer type puller that fit into the pilot bearing and was able to remove the bearing. When the new pilot bearing arrives in the mail I will install it. Then I will install the transmission without a clutch and without the clutch fork. If it lines up and bolts up with no problem then that tells me the problem is either the clutch or clutch fork. I will then install the transmission with only the pressure plate and friction disc. If that goes ok, then I guess the problem is with the clutch fork. So I'm going to take it one step at a time and see what happens. Thanks, Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Great progress. Those pilot shaft bushings are a pain to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Glad to see you are having fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWLawrence Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Suggest you make sure the transmission shaft will fit in the new pilot bushing. Easy enough to do. JWL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Whew, the transmission is now bolted into the car. Although now there isn't enough clearance to bolt the rear transmission mount into the transmission. I'm hoping that if I loosen the engine mounts I can tilt the rear of the transmission up far enough to bolt the mount to the transmission. I tried installing the transmission with the mount already bolted, but it was a no go situation. If it isn't one thing its another. I'm pretty sure the whole problem started because the old crankshaft pilot bearing had been installed cockeyed or crooked and everything was binding. I knew something was wrong from the beginning when I had to use a pry bar to separate the transmission from the bell housing when initially removing the transmission to check things out. The transmission slid right in with no trouble after I replaced the pilot bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Excellent outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Are the engine mounts in good condition? Settlement at the rear might be the result of mount deterioration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Spinneyhill, Yes the engine mounts and the rear transmission mount look almost like new. Tonight I was able to loosen the engine mounts and tilt the whole unit upward enough to install the rear transmission mount. So now I'm hoping nothing else pops up while I'm assembling the car back together. I should probably replace some of the wood that the floor boards and seat rails screw into. But I'm pretty much afraid to tackle that. I don't know anything about wood work. Dennis Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Hooray............The 33 Chevy is back together and everything works good. It was a learning experience and I appreciate all of the help everyone gave in answer to my questions. Dennis Jones 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Hurray is right, and kudos to you for your perseverance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 It's probably my imagination, but it seems to run a little smoother now. Although I just found out that I "packed" the u-joint wrong when I put it back together. I coated the u-joint in grease before I closed up the torque tube. Now I just found out that I was supposed to fill the torque ball with 160 wt gear oil. I'm thinking that if I remove the speedometer cable I can pump some gear oil in through hole and put gear oil in torque ball that way. In the picture it looks like the oil would flow straight to the torque ball/universal joint. There are so many things about these old cars that I've just forgotten because it's been so long since I've owned one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Looking at the picture of your transmission, you have a grease fitting in the top of the ujoint housing. A simple plug should be there and the 600w gear oil should be added there. Use about 6oz. Many cars through the years have had that plug improperly replaced with a grease fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Jones Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 chistech, Yes mine still has the plug on top. I have now added about 4oz. to 6 oz. through that hole in the top. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I just did the same thing yesterday to a customers 31' I'm restoring. It's slow going with that 600w going through that 1/8 pipe plug hole! Lucky for me it's a body off job so I'm working with a bare chassis. I use a 50cc syringe to put the oil in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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