Kent Moore Reatta specific J-28467 engine support

[drtidmore]

AND here is the infamous Kent Moore J-28467 engine mount!  This is a beast!  Here it is assembled, sitting above the engine.  The main bar on the right side has only a single hole and it is smaller than the pin OR the hole in the bracket.  No problem I will just drill it out to match. I also have to get nuts that affix the main beam brackets to the strut tower extension adapters.  The pics simply don't do justice to the mass and size of this setup.  There is an alternative engine hook without the swivel shown in the FSM but I went with two of the swivel versions  

 

FYI, the entire setup wound up costing a tad over $360 which twice the non-specific, maybe will work, versions.  As I will be underneath the engine, knowing this is holding things securely makes it money well spent. 

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by drtidmore
for some reason the forum dropped ALL the pics! (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Thanks for posting all the photos. It doesn't appear that it would be too hard to make a simplified version of it at home since I've seen what it looks like.

 

I wonder why they didn't go through holes drilled in the center of the square tubing with the threaded adjustment rods instead of hanging bracket on the side of the tubing the way they did? Perhaps it was made so it would be adjustable to fit other vehicles was the reason? If so I think several of the brackets could be eliminated if you were making a "Reatta only" version for home use.

 

1 hour ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

It just needs to be static, no moving around load. The "wing nut adjusters" on the hooks are for relieving pressure on the cradle, before cradle removal. The Dogbone is left in place- to prevent lateral movement of the engine.

 

You did about what I had in mind, but being a machinist, I would have used steel instead of wood. I would have started with two pieces of heavy wall square tubing cut the proper length to make a T,. Then added (welded) on brackets to fit the two inside strut mount bolts on each side. Holes would then be drilled for threaded J bolts for the motor and a large hole to accept a foot brace fabricated from steel for the radiator support. I think the adjustable J hooks could be made from a large turnbuckle (similar to these) to support the motor. David chose to go the professional route for good reasons. I think a good DIY engine support could be made just for the Reatta for a small amount of money.

 

BTW, what is causing the vig-links in your posts? Is it something new to the AACA forum or something unique to your posts?

 

 

[89RedDarkGrey]

5 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

BTW, what is causing the vig-links in your posts? Is it something new to the AACA forum or something unique to your posts?

 

I noticed that too. I have no idea on my end- maybe it's some "marketing ploy" for advertising? I get the same from other posters sometimes.

[drtidmore]

I agree that there are other solutions to the KM tool.  I simply did not want to take the time to fabricate such and when I discovered that I could gather up ONLY the Reatta specific pieces out of the much larger J-28467 kit, I made the decision that for me, the KM solution was the correct one.  I may never need it again, but having it means that anytime I need to support the engine/transmission, I will have the tool. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

16 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

BTW, what is causing the vig-links in your posts? Is it something new to the AACA forum or something unique to your posts?

 

FOUND IT. KILLED MINE. IT'S PART OF AACA ADS.

 

[89RedDarkGrey]

10 minutes ago, drtidmore said:

I agree that there are other solutions to the KM tool.  I simply did not want to take the time to fabricate such and when I discovered that I could gather up ONLY the Reatta specific pieces out of the much larger J-28476 kit, I made the decision that for me, the KM solution was the correct one.  I may never need it again, but having it means that anytime I need to support the engine/transmission, I will have the tool. 

 

Maybe you could RENT IT OUT to other Reatta owners when their trans goes?

[drtidmore]

1 minute ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

 

Maybe you could RENT IT OUT to other Reatta owners when their trans goes?

That had crossed my mind.  Just need to think over the logistics of doing so.

[DAVES89]

When I/we pulled the tranny only on the Black we used a Harbor Freight cherry picker to hold the engine up and relied on the "dog bone" to hold the engine straight. We also used a 2x4 going from fender to fender to offer additional support for the cherry picker. I also remember a jack stand under the engine as a last bit of support.

 I was pretty comfortable with this set up and also saw that we were spending very little time directly under the engine. We also had a tranny jack on the transmission so overall we were safe.

 I offer this as an alternative if someone may not want to buy the Kent Moore set up that David found.

[89RedDarkGrey]

First thing- would be to get a CASE for it, or build your own.

 

Include a laminated parts list sheet, maybe with assembly diagram and photos?

 

Then- a dedicated re useable shipping box UPS/USPS/FEDEX type.

[89RedDarkGrey]

I'd say- a fair rental price would be your original purchase price (to cover if not returned or damaged) with a 50% refund to renter upon received return to you.

 

$370 to rent (you pay 1st S&H)

$185 + S&H to rent and return (actual cost to renter)

 

It would pay for itself within 2-3 rentals.

 

Have to figure weight of entire unit, then set a USPS "flat rate" for S&H.      https://postcalc.usps.com/

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Just use a cherry picker. They cost less and are much easier to get a hold of.

[drtidmore]

15 minutes ago, D-a-n-i-e-l said:

Just use a cherry picker. They cost less and are much easier to get a hold of.

I have used them in the past and when pulling an engine out the top, they are the way to go, but for the job I am doing, the space I have to work  and the time I need to have the car in the air (this is NOT going to be a quick project), supporting the engine with a cherry picker simply was not going to work out.  If this was going to be a quick project I might have gone with a rented cherry picker, but again, this project is likely to run a month or maybe longer (I hope not, but I am not on a timeline).  

[89RedDarkGrey]

      5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It doesn't appear that it would be too hard to make a simplified version of it at home since I've seen what it looks like

 

5 hours ago, drtidmore said:

While something MIGHT be home brewed, it would a chore to build it this robust

 

Harbor Freight engine brace cross member & it's 2 threaded rod-hooks with adjusters=$0 borrowed from Friend

A leftover length of THIS with a hole drilled, and 2x4 cut to make a "T" foot, and pieces for strut towers=$0

Borrowed 800 lb capacity chain for front=$0 

 

It just needs to be static, no moving around load. The "wing nut adjusters" on the hooks are for relieving pressure on the cradle, before cradle removal. The Dogbone is left in place- to prevent lateral movement of the engine.

 

[DAVES89]

A cherry picker is $179.00 at Harbor Freight which was the unit we used. Sometimes they go on sale or you can use a discount coupon...

[89RedDarkGrey]

31 minutes ago, D-a-n-i-e-l said:

Just use a cherry picker. They cost less and are much easier to get a hold of.

 

If you also have a leveling attachment, and if the legs of the hoist aren't in the way, and it's secured from rolling- then yes, a hoist could be used. Even the rented equipment usually doesn't have a tight time limit on return. The beauty of a brace is that nothing is in your way, and it doesn't move around.

 

LOAD LEVELER

Shop crane

Chain w/hooks

 

When all bought together- would probably be near the cost of Drtidmore's J-Tool brace.

 

Very few places "loan" Shop Cranes- now many places rent them out, though- for a hefty fee.

 

Simply using a hoist and 1 chain would be risky- but could be done.

[drtidmore]

2 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

A cherry picker is $179.00 at Harbor Freight which was the unit we used. Sometimes they go on sale or you can use a discount coupon...

The cost of buying a cherry picker was not the prime negative for me, it was the space they take no matter how you angle them in for support of the engine.  I have a somewhat limited work space for this project so it was important to keep the available space around the front and sides of the vehicle clear and accessible. 

[DAVES89]

David I wasn't inferring that you change courses and go with a cherry picker, I was just listing options for someone else who might want to take on a transmission swap. 

[drtidmore]

Just now, DAVES89 said:

David I wasn't inferring that you change courses and go with a cherry picker, I was just listing options for someone else who might want to take on a transmission swap. 

I understand.  I just wanted to state the reasons that drove me to the J-tool decision.  It was not a curiosity about the tool, or that I had money to burn on this project.  I hated like hell to spend the money on it, but it was the best all around solution in my situation when all the factors were considered. 

[89RedDarkGrey]

5 minutes ago, drtidmore said:

it was the best all around solution in my situation when all the factors were considered. 

 

Hence- my choice. Cheap, easy, and free

 

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

 

Hence- my choice. Cheap, easy, and free

 

 

Cheap and easy is the way I try to do things too. I looked at the support you used on HF. It would be my starting point for building an engine support for the Reatta as well. With just a few modifications and a little square tubing you would have a tool that is easy to store at a low price. However, if I was going to pull the transmission, ( I doubt I ever will ), I would use a cherry picker as Dave suggested for two reasons:   1.) Because I don't have room to store any more tools that I seldom use.     2.) Because I have a couple friends with cherry pickers that I could borrow and keep them as long as I want.

[DAVES89]

I've known Kendall [my mechanic friend] for at least 15 years and he has never pulled an engine only, transmission only, or engine/transmission at home. But all that changed about 3 years ago as his son had a minivan [Honda] that had a transmission issue so he bought a cherry picker to do his transmission [That was harder then doing a Reatta]. Then about 2 years ago the Black needed a tranny so the cherry picker got called into service, then just about a month ago we did an engine/tranny swap on the Red. I did buy him an engine stand as I knew we would need that for the engine [swapping parts]. I did encourage him to sell both as we are getting too old to do this much more. My reasoning is if you don't have the equipment it is harder to take on that type of project.

 About 7 years ago I did see him drop a tranny out of a Chrysler product minivan in about 45 minutes. The work was performed at our Church's equipment garage. We were helping out a Pator. All we did was put the car up on blocks and had a trannsmission jack ready and like I said 45 minutes later it was out. After the tranny was rebuilt it took about 45 minutes to reinstall.

 I wish the Reatta would let go of their transmissions that easily...

 He was a Chrysler tech for about 20 years before moving on to Sprinter/Mercedes vehicles.

Edited May 31, 2017 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[2seater]

I think the Kent Moore part is just lovely and I wish it was mine.  Granted, I would probably make something for my needs, plus I don't have those lift hooks on any of my engines, but it is so robust, no worries. Heck, I pull my engines with a deadfall chain hoist hanging on a homemade trolley on a doubled up ceiling joist, but that is in the completely opposite direction and I certainly wouldn't work under it.

Edited May 31, 2017 by 2seater (see edit history)

[KDirk]

David,

 

Can you post a list of the specific KM assembly part numbers you have? I may be interested in getting a set together and would like to know which parts are needed, as there are many different adapters and sub-assemblies available for this setup. Thanks!

 

KD

 

[89RedDarkGrey]

As much trouble as he had hunting for the puzzle pieces- he might have bought the last one

 

All kidding aside- I wonder how much Dealers paid for whatever setup they wanted?

And- imagine what the complete kit would cost?

 

The closest I got in my own research was piecemealing  you to death HERE

 

Or- take out a loan for THIS at a whopping $645.22

 

Or- gather the needed materials- and make your own- as Ronnie suggested.

[drtidmore]

1 hour ago, KDirk said:

David,

 

Can you post a list of the specific KM assembly part numbers you have? I may be interested in getting a set together and would like to know which parts are needed, as there are many different adapters and sub-assemblies available for this setup. Thanks!

 

KD

 

No problem,

Here is the list:

J-28467-90     strut bolt extensions/adapters (need 6)

J-28467-5A    support adapter (t-arm device that attaches to the -90 and to the main bar  (need two)

J-28467-6&7  engine support hooks (need two complete:  the -6 part# is the hook support bracket and the -7 part# is the hook)  Also be aware that when searching for these that most sellers don't realize that there are two part #s so they may list them as either -6 or occasionally -7 only.   I chose to go with two swivel hook version.  There is also a non-swivel hook version which can be used for the front support hook on the 3800 but I like the swivel hook better so I got 2 swivel versions.  I found NO bargains for these ($70 each).

J-28467-3       main bar (approx 50" long)  This is going to be the more difficult piece to find separate.  You can find them with the A-arm fender support brackets but those brackets add a LOT to the cost.  The part # is for the main bar ALONE. 

J-36462-A       forward support bar with radiator support foot  This kit superseded an older design. 

                        This includes

                         J-36462-1A Radiator shelf tube

                         J-28467-1A U-bolt/plate/nuts

                         J-29467-4A Front support assembly

                         J-29467-9 quick release pin for radiator shelf tube

                         J-28467-100 Front Support to tube adapter (supports the tube on the foot)

 

I got lucky and found the J-36462-A at a really good price on eBay.  Some sellers were trying to get as much as 3X what I paid.  

 

 

UPDATE!   just checked on eBay and the same seller that sold me several of the pieces including the main bar has another of the J-28467-3 main bars up for sale.  I know he had more of the engine hooks assemblies as well.  

Edited May 31, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

2 hours ago, drtidmore said:

J-28467-3       main bar (approx 50" long)  This is going to be the more difficult piece to find separate.  You can find them with the A-arm fender support brackets but those brackets add a LOT to the cost.  The part # is for the main bar ALONE

 

The bar is  HERE         "Bolt-Hook" is HERE (call for stock)       

 

The site has many of the pieces, but at the ridiculous price

[KDirk]

David, thanks for your efforts compiling and typing the list. I suspect I may roll my own given the cumulative cost and effort involved in compiling the full monty, but your list is helpful. 

 

KD

 

 

[fordrodsteven]

I made my engine support toady. Used scraps of metal from the garage. Bought two pieces of 2" square tube four feet long (cost $23). I like it!

[fordrodsteven]

[Ronnie]

On 5/30/2017 at 3:57 PM, Ronnie said:

You did about what I had in mind, but being a machinist, I would have used steel instead of wood. I would have started with two pieces of heavy wall square tubing cut the proper length to make a T,. Then added (welded) on brackets to fit the two inside strut mount bolts on each side. Holes would then be drilled for threaded J bolts for the motor and a large hole to accept a foot brace fabricated from steel for the radiator support. I think the adjustable J hooks could be made from a large turnbuckle (similar to these) to support the motor. David chose to go the professional route for good reasons. I think a good DIY engine support could be made just for the Reatta for a small amount of money.

 

 

Good work. You did almost what I described in a previous post.

[89RedDarkGrey]

HOLY MOLY

 

That's what I call DIY. One word of caution- hack off that end near the windshield. You don't need any more "oops" right now.

[fordrodsteven]

3 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

HOLY MOLY

 

That's what I call DIY. One word of caution- hack off that end near the windshield. You don't need any more "oops" right now.

 

Thank you 89DRG I was pretty careful about it. It looks a lot closer in the picture than it actually is. The end is more than 6" from the windshield. Although. I was thinking about bolting it down at that back end and then I can cut it to be flush at the back of the cross brace.

Edited June 11, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[KDirk]

Ok, how much would you want to make a second one (material and labor to fabricate)? And that's a serious question. This looks very good,  and while not beyond my own fabrication skills, is beyond the time I have available to do so for the foreseeable future. If you would be willing to fab one up, PM me and we can discuss further.