oldironlindy Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I bought this engine at an auction this weekend, I believe it is for a Brush car. I am looking for information on how to date the engine and also want to confirm that the long mounts on the block are aluminum. As you can see they are broke and need repair. I can weld aluminum but son me of the pot metal they used back in the day can be challenging. I also would like to know an approximate value if I get the mounts fixed and get it running. Thanks for any help you can give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Nice looking engine. The serial number should be stamped on the top oft the cylinder head near the primer cup. Once located, the engine number sequence can determine the year of production. The broken mounting ears look way to high. Could they have been modified for this frame? Good luck, and if you find a number I can help you with the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldironlindy Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Thanks for the reply I was beginning to think that know one looked at this forum, I will get the number tonight. The flywheel is just sitting on the bed of the truck and the engine needs to be lifted up so that the horns meet the mounting bracket. This also has a really cool looking Brass Buffalo carb on it is that the original carb? I think early model T Fords used a similar carb. I will get a couple more pictures too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The very early Brush's had their own carb from 1907-08 I believe. The later years used Kingston 5-ball. Not to say that the Buffalo carb was not used, I have not seen it listed in their parts book for models D, E, F, and Liberty. I don't have info on the earlier models A, B, and C. I have a model F (1911-12) and your engine appears to be much earlier. I also have an aluminum crankcase and I have been told that the early engines were cast iron cases. Maybe some other owners will post what they have on earlier models. Good luck. Are you from MN.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Caddyshack - if that parts book you mentioned has illustrations of the Kingston carburetor, I would gladly purchase copies of the page(s) on carburetors. Thanks. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldironlindy Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Yes, I am from Minnesota. In the little town of Kimball near St. cloud. How about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 50 minutes ago, carbking said: Caddyshack - if that parts book you mentioned has illustrations of the Kingston carburetor, I would gladly purchase copies of the page(s) on carburetors. Thanks. Jon. Hi Jon, The parts list that I have is a "Price List of Parts" for Brush Runabouts, Models D, E, F, and Liberty. No illustrations of individual parts, just a part number, description, and price back in the day. They do list Kingston in the carb section, but do not designate five-ball, four ball, or other models like the Ford T does. If you want some interesting reading concerning many early carbs with diagrams and descriptions find the book "Practical Treatise on Automobiles" edited by Oscar C. Schmidt, Volume 1, The American Text-book Co., Copyrighted 1909. It is written expressly for the Owner, Chauffeur, Machinist, and Garage Man, Volume 1 has a carburetors and fuel mixtures section pages 287-368 that is full of early (pre 1909) carb info on many makes of autos. Thanks, Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, oldironlindy said: Yes, I am from Minnesota. In the little town of Kimball near St. cloud. How about you? Bloomington, MN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Skip - thank you. I have several of the reference books from that era, including one specifically on carburetors by American Text-book. And yes, the information is quite interesting in a general way. Other references from this period that come to mind would include "Carburetors" by Arthur Judge (1912), any of the Dykes Encyclopedia, and the Automobile Encyclopedia sets by American Text-book. There are others. Unfortunately for us today, virtually all of the information in those books comes from magazine articles of the day and patent information. Yes, there are often cut-a-way drawings and a general description of how the carburetor works, but very few actual applications. My Kingston book covers tractors; and virtually all (there are a few exceptions) of the original Kingston drawings in my possession cover tractors, stationary engines, and marine engines. Possibly someone who was a car enthusiast got there before me! The drawings I have skip from Bessemer to Buckeye. As to the Kingston 5-ball; there are at least 3 different Kingston models which use the 5-ball technology: the model 1910, the model 1912, and the model E. I do have a small 4-ball Kingston that has an ancient paper tag labeled "Brush". Have never knowingly had another Brush carburetor, and from your information, this one is probably mis-tagged, which is not unusual. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Jon, The four-ball could very well be for a Brush. My price list just says Kingston and if the throat size is correct and the time period is correct, anything is possible. I have a Kingston 5-ball with a threaded 1-1/4" connection and hot air pipe. Not sure of exact application, but was told that it was more than likely a stationary engine application. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldironlindy Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Here are a couple more pictures. The number on top of the cylinder is 3308. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lindy, My records show that engine number 3308 would be mid 1909 to mid 1910, Model B or C. Serial numbers were 1701-3700. Body style was anyones guess. I do not believe there are any build sheets that survived. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldironlindy Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Thanks Skip! Did they make the little truck in 1909? I found a picture of a 1908 version while googling for info on this engine. That thing is super cool I would love to put something like that together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddyshack Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Lindy, I have seen a light truck referenced in an article I have, but I have never seen a picture of one. I believe it was a 1908 version also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Albright Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I believe the circa 1908 Model BC did use a Buffalo carb. It is a smaller pre-1909 engine used in Model A,A1,B,and BC models. Slightly larger engine started with the 1909 Model D thru the 1913 Model Liberty. Had a BC in the 1970s. George Albright,Ocala,Fla. gnalbright@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteran car SA Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Dear Lindy, did you get the motor running? Would you be willing to sell it so I can use it for my Brush restoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul schaefer Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 This motor has been repaired and is running. It will be available at Hershey. Asking $3200.00 The Buffalo carb was removed before I purchased it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushGuy Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Curious....Did the engine sell at Hershey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul schaefer Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 No it did not sell. Still available if you want to put it in the news letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul schaefer Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Engine reserved for BrushGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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