Rivdrivn Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 I've decided, not without some trepidation, that I'm going to drive to BCA in Milwaukee in July and subject myself to their 400 point judging for the first time. Sure I have a modified '65 but most of it is hidden and some can be reversed. I can put the proper air cleaner back on once I reroute the fuel line. But what about a correct looking battery topper and period hose clamps. What's the best source for these obsolete gems? By the way, I'm not changing the radial tires. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) Hey Steve, The Tar Topper's made are just over 10" long. Check ebay. The original battery was 12" long and no one makes a 12" topper as far as I know. This is true with 66-70 style also. So to go with topper you are forced to go with smaller very common 10" length battery. May or may not get gigged for that as most do not know a mammoth 12" wide battery was original......but that's a risk for a deduction nonetheless only you can determine if the risk is worth saving $$$ on correct battery. Antique Auto Battery makes the correct battery in right size.....though more spendy. The judging manual (Available on the BCA website under Publications tab) indicates "check battery for correct size and style". If wrong size and judge happens to know and also know you can buy the correct size, you may get gigged 3 points. Correct battery is $280 plus shipping. $100 a point! Once you bring up the judging manual, scroll towards end and look over the checklist and use as a guide to go over your car. CARS has the tower top clamps for rad. When installing these, careful they will twist if over torqued as they are a little thinner steel than originals. I apply a couple drops of oil to the sliding part before install. The heater hoses originally had the wire spring ring (Corbin) clamps. Some folks use the small tower tops as replacements as they are more period correct and clamp better than Corbins, and again most do not know if a Corbin or tower top was used originally on car. The Corbin clamps are sometimes fickle to get to seal with modern hose. If you really want to appear most correct, get the Corbins and install narrow 5/16" wide modern hose clamps beside the Corbins for driving and take modern clamps off at the show. 5 points are deducted for incorrect clamps. The joys of point system judging! Higher points = empty wallet! If you want to buy Corbin clamps let me know and I'll get you a contact so you get the right ones. By the way, I wouldn't change the radials either. No one makes the correct size repop for the Rivs so you pay up for a bias repop and its still not correct, not best quality, and the driving experience is horrible. Edited May 29, 2017 by JZRIV (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Make sure your lug wrench is visible to the judges. I had mine tucked away under the spare tire so it wouldn't slide around in the trunk and forgot about it. Ding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 2 hours ago, JZRIV said: Antique Auto Battery makes the correct battery in right size.....though more spendy. If you buy one of these, plan on buying another real soon as they don't seem to last (in my case). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 11 hours ago, Rivdrivn said: I've decided, not without some trepidation, that I'm going to drive to BCA in Milwaukee in July and subject myself to their 400 point judging for the first time. Sure I have a modified '65 but most of it is hidden and some can be reversed. I can put the proper air cleaner back on once I reroute the fuel line. But what about a correct looking battery topper and period hose clamps. What's the best source for these obsolete gems? By the way, I'm not changing the radial tires. I too have been going back and forth about entering the 400 point judging or entering one of the other categories. I know I will get dinged for certain things such as radial tires, dual brake master, hose clamps, etc. and am not going to change them for safety or practicality reasons. I drive my car as much as I can and don't want to sacrifice in those areas. Otherwise, I do strive as much as possible to keep my car stock, original and correct. I'm sure there are many out there like me. I'm sure I am not the first one to ask this question? Can't there be a category created for these in between cars? In my opinion, in an age where the car hobby is sometimes struggling for participation this might be a way to get more people to and participating in these club events? I probably will enter the 400 point judging as I this may be one of the only times where I can go to and participate in a BCA meet as it is so close to home. I like to go too one major event a year and the ROA Convention is usually my first choice but, I can't pass this up. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Bill Stoneberg said: If you buy one of these, plan on buying another real soon as they don't seem to last (in my case). When did you buy your battery? I know people who have got 8 years + out of the newer sealed AGM type batteries following proper care and charging. One drawback is the AGMs can't not handle overcharging if a voltage regulator fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Steve, Obviously, you are getting help with your “correcting” needs, I can’t help as much with that, but, I can tell you my experience with the BCA judging. When the BCA Nationals were here in NC in 2012 I decided to take a couple of my last generation Rivs just to kind of see what happened. Like you said, you are not going to make any big changes, those were my thoughts too, I just kind of wanted to see what happened with them. Keep in mind that even though there is a judging manual the “judges” may or may not “really” know a lot about what they are judging. The first thing I noticed when I checked in at the meet was in the manual they have their “Formal Judging Form”, and they also have a “Formal Judging Form-Modern Vehicles”, which I assumed would be used for my ’95 and ’99 Riv. There isn’t a huge difference with the content of each, it just seemed odd to me that they would have an updated form and not use it for those year cars? Like I said I wasn’t going to make any changes from their results I just wanted to check it out since it was so close. I counted around 12 deductions for my ’95 because of things I had done to it, and it only received 4 deductions! I have talked to others that have judged at BCA meets and they told me that in the judges’ meetings and classes they are told not to “kill the car”, so I guess that was the theory they used on mine? But, there were a few items that were specifically pointed out in the manual that were not deducted on the judging form? Just thought I would pass along what I experienced with the 400-point judging, I say go for it, even if just for curiosities sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) Don't sweat the battery, it is only 3 point allotted for the battery and hold downs. 3 is the total if no battery or hold downs were present, usual deduction for a non-Delco =1, hardly worth the effort unless you are shooting for 400 points. I think the BCA has knowledgeable Riviera judges, but the BCA may not do some thing the Riviera club would look for. The judges do not lift floor mats or touch anything. They do not look under the car, On the tires, "non-authentic tire type" meaning radials is a 1 point per tire, again not worth changing for 4 points. You would also get dinged if you had raised white letter or the wrong size white side wall (within reason) But wide whites would be incorrect for any Riviera. PS, I only judge Reattas. Edited May 29, 2017 by Barney Eaton (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 You wana be the cool guy?! Get the correct battery... http://www.antiqueautobattery.com/general-motors.html#Buick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Barney Eaton said: I think the BCA has knowledgeable Riviera judges, but the BCA may not do some thing the Riviera club would look for. PS, I only judge Reattas. AT The ROA events, all of the cars are peer judged. There is no set of rules that are followed. Every registered guest is given a ballot. Each ballot separates cars by generation (63 -65, 66 -70, 71-73, etc.) You choose one car from each generation. The car with the most votes wins best in class. Depending on the number of cars per class, additional class winners are awarded. THE car with the most overall votes is awarded Best in Show. Because so many people are unfamiliar with cars outside of their class, there are all sorts of non stock items that are usually, but not intentionally, overlooked. Everyone relaxes and has a good time; no one sweats the petty stuff and no one pets the sweaty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren@65GS.com Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 34 minutes ago, RivNut said: AT The ROA events, all of the cars are peer judged. There is no set of rules that are followed. Every registered guest is given a ballot. Each ballot separates cars by generation (63 -65, 66 -70, 71-73, etc.) You choose one car from each generation. The car with the most votes wins best in class. Depending on the number of cars per class, additional class winners are awarded. THE car with the most overall votes is awarded Best in Show. Because so many people are unfamiliar with cars outside of their class, there are all sorts of non stock items that are usually, but not intentionally, overlooked. Everyone relaxes and has a good time; no one sweats the petty stuff and no one pets the sweaty stuff. That is nice to know about the peer judging. We've had our '65 Skylark GS judged a few times at BCA and other events, it is both nerve racking and a real time consumer prepping a car for it. Especially when driven to the meet. lol I have judged at a few BCA meets and in the pre- judging meeting, we were told " Do not kill the car". As it has been stated, people judging a class, may or may not know everything about the cars they are judging. And that kind of irritates me. Oh well..... Loren@65GS.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 As is often the case over the years, some are not satisfied about the quality of judging too which I say, get knowledgeable, go to judging class and judge, especially in a class you know and especially if you know about a class and you do not have a car in that class. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 6 hours ago, Barney Eaton said: Don't sweat the battery, it is only 3 point allotted for the battery and hold downs. 3 is the total if no battery or hold downs were present, usual deduction for a non-Delco =1, hardly worth the effort unless you are shooting for 400 points. I think the BCA has knowledgeable Riviera judges, but the BCA may not do some thing the Riviera club would look for. The judges do not lift floor mats or touch anything. They do not look under the car, On the tires, "non-authentic tire type" meaning radials is a 1 point per tire, again not worth changing for 4 points. You would also get dinged if you had raised white letter or the wrong size white side wall (within reason) But wide whites would be incorrect for any Riviera. PS, I only judge Reattas. Would they have me open the clamshells? I can't remember if I have matching T3's. Glad about not looking under the car since I have a nice but incorrect set of mufflers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 The clamshells do not need to be open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 Safety check: lights? Check horn? Check fire extinguisher? Check spare tire? Check bumper jack? rut roh... anyone have an extra bumper jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscheib Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I may be wrong, but I think we no longer do "safety check" John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Rivdrivn said: Safety check: lights? Check horn? Check fire extinguisher? Check spare tire? Check bumper jack? rut roh... anyone have an extra bumper jack? Safety check - bumper jack. Isn't that kind of an an oxymoron? Who has ever heard of a safe bumper jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 14 hours ago, JZRIV said: When did you buy your battery? I know people who have got 8 years + out of the newer sealed AGM type batteries following proper care and charging. One drawback is the AGMs can't not handle overcharging if a voltage regulator fails. Its been a few years ago and I bought a Lead / Acid battery for my 1950 Buick when I was getting it judged. I actually had to Buy 2 as they did not last much more then the 1 year warranty. Finally went with a 6 V Optima after I got my Awards. I, too, have gotten long life out of the AGM batteries I have put in my Riviera and Electra but they were the Optima as I was not concerned with judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I point judged my car in 2015 at the Springfield BCA nats. They DO look under the car mainly to see if you have a stock style exhaust system with the transverse muffler behind the axle. The safety check is no longer done and you don't have to open the clams, so don't worry about the headlamps. When I did point judging the head judge for the Riviera class was Dick Sweeney, who knows everything there is to know about 65 Rivieras.(He bought one brand new and has owned them his whole life) I would imagine he will be judging your car as well.....which means that the people who are judging your car will know what they are doing. You WILL get docked for incorrect mufflers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 I am ordering tower hose clamps from CARS. Is it four of the 2 inch for the radiator and four of the 1 inch for heater hoses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 IF you're interested, I found the feel line Corbin clamps at a local Ace Hardware store. They epwere in one of the yellow specially bins in the plumbing section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivgs Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) On 5/29/2017 at 10:18 PM, RivNut said: is Safety check - bumper jack. Isn't that kind of an an oxymoron? Who has ever heard of a safe bumper jack? A bumper jack is safe as long as it is secured in the trunk. Edited May 31, 2017 by rivgs Grammer (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Feels like Christmas! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 On 5/30/2017 at 3:31 PM, RivNut said: IF you're interested, I found the feel line Corbin clamps at a local Ace Hardware store. They epwere in one of the yellow specially bins in the plumbing section. You're right, Ed, Ace is the place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanZverina Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Hi Ed, Please tell me where these go on a '63 Riv, and how many and what size I should choose. I have a good Ace near me and more than once they've had exactly what I needed for my guitar collection, as well as for my Riv and Jag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 43 minutes ago, JanZverina said: Hi Ed, Please tell me where these go on a '63 Riv, and how many and what size I should choose. I have a good Ace near me and more than once they've had exactly what I needed for my guitar collection, as well as for my Riv and Jag. I bought 5/8 inch and 3/4 inch for my heater hoses. I've been told one or the other should fit. Four would be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Rivdrivn said: I bought 5/8 inch and 3/4 inch for my heater hoses. I've been told one or the other should fit. Four would be necessary. Good Luck Steve! Hope they work. You may want to buy a pair of special corbin clamp pliers. I made a pair out of vise grips by grinding a groove in the jaws. A bit crude and but it works. Let me know if you need my contact for correct clamps Edited June 6, 2017 by JZRIV (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rivdrivn said: You're right, Ed, Ace is the place! Did you also find the flat type Corbin clamp? From what I've seen on a couple of "restored as original", these are the clamps that were used on the fuel lines. These are the ones that I found in the plumbing section, they also came in different sizes - each size was a different color. (You don't need special pliers for these ) Edited June 6, 2017 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Riviera Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Looks like I will be judging my old 65 Riv GS in Wisconsin ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 6/9/2017 at 9:03 PM, Mr Riviera said: Looks like I will be judging my old 65 Riv GS in Wisconsin ? Probably not. This one has a Long Island pedigree. I rescued it from hurricane Sandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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