Jump to content

Need help and advice


Dynaflash8

Recommended Posts

Can anyone recommend an honest lawyer in Southern California, particularly near Orange, CA, who I could get to finalize a car purchase for me.  It's a little involved, and I need advice and active help to make the deal.  As of now there is nothing wrong, but I don't know how to complete this deal so I get the car and the title.  The man has a title loan on the car.  I need a lawyer to pay it off and then pay the man and get the title.  I can't travel out there to do it, and I'm no rocket scientist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most all lawyers are truly honest.  I went through a lawyer on a California collector car, but now in Idaho, maybe 1991.  It was being sold by a young guy, and I forget the issue, but I wanted funds sent to a lawyer in escrow, to be paid when the needed papers arrived from Cal. DMV, I think..  The young guy and wife just relocated to Idaho, and flat towed the car to their new home.  He needed some issue resolved from Cal DMV. He claimed he was selling the car as they just found a home to buy...

 

I asked the seller for a local Layer contact, and it went like silk.  Papers arrived, seller had laywer come verify the car VIN only, then released the funds.  My transport guy later said "you had no worries with that kid (& wife),.... he was AOK.."

 

Your results may vary, so make your proper decisions on what you know so far, on your deal.

 

.

 

I

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks.  I'm going to ask Steve M. if he knows of a lawyer at the banquet tonight,here in Huntington.  I really want this car.  Why coulddn't it be a clean deal?  I first knew this car 50 years ago almost to the day.  It is the car that I feel is my last deal blowout that I've been looking for.   BCA 55

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

Thanks.  I'm going to ask Steve M. if he knows of a lawyer at the banquet tonight,here in Huntington.  I really want this car.  Why coulddn't it be a clean deal?  I first knew this car 50 years ago almost to the day.  It is the car that I feel is my last deal blowout that I've been looking for.   BCA 55

 

 

My one and only lawyer deal was obviously Pre-Internet....hence the caution on my part, then.  With the internet, and name/and approximate location of seller, you can do a quick search of that person.  Others here may be able to PM on where is the best site(s) to do a very quick, very basic integrity? "test of the waters", should you have any lingering doubts whatsoever.

 

To add to my first post, the lawyer only came to the sellers home, when seller said he finally got the California papers.  The lawyer verified the VIN only, not the car condition, and then transferred my escrow in return for the papers which he then mailed to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul I haven't bird-dogged it. I thought it was a car gone off into the old car heavens.  My friend died in the mid-80s, end of story...or was it.  Or so I thought.  I've been looking for this type of Buick for some time, especially one I sold in 1981.  A Buick friend wrote me this car had come on eBay.  When I looked at the ad, saw the location, and a couple of other features I barely remembered, it looked like it could be my old friend's car.  I wrote the guy and he responded that it was.  His grandfather had bought it from my friend's daughter.  It was like out of the blue.  I want it, but there is a title tangle whereby this guy got a title loan.  I'm not touching that.....because I don't know how to.  So, if I could find a Buick Club collector in the SoCal area who was also a lawyer maybe I could hire him to see that any deal was straightforward.  You can't be any too careful these days

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dunno about SoCal but in Florida usually you meet at the lienholder's office and on receiving the payoff they do the title transfer. Best call the lienholder and ask particularly if there is a delay involved. Have only done once & at SunBank and was a few years ago but was how it worked.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would think that a trip to see the car, meet with the lien holder and meet the seller would be less expensive than a lawyer.

However the lawyer may be better at crossing the T's and dotting the I's.

 

I have done that meeting at the bank thing a couple of times and all went well, its pretty easy to see if there are any red flags.

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A certified check made out to both the lender and the seller for the full purchase price gets both parties paid. The purchase agreement printed in the upper portion of the endorsement area gets you clear title and the car on acceptance of payment. Cutting up several slips of paper the size of your check blank helps you set your computer for proper print location and when it's endorsed by both below the agreement it becomes a negotiable instrument and a binding contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, JACK M said:

I would think that a trip to see the car, meet with the lien holder and meet the seller would be less expensive than a lawyer.

However the lawyer may be better at crossing the T's and dotting the I's.

 

I have done that meeting at the bank thing a couple of times and all went well, its pretty easy to see if there are any red flags.

 

I did this once, actually I drove the seller to the bank, he walked in and paid off the loan and came out with a stamped title.  Of course, I didn't know there was a lien until I showed up to pay for the car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Digger914 said:

A certified check made out to both the lender and the seller for the full purchase price gets both parties paid. The purchase agreement printed in the upper portion of the endorsement area gets you clear title and the car on acceptance of payment. Cutting up several slips of paper the size of your check blank helps you set your computer for proper print location and when it's endorsed by both below the agreement it becomes a negotiable instrument and a binding contract.

 

 

Not that it applies in the case here in post one, but my banker let me in on something I never knew about checks, in my State, in our banking statutes.

 

She said there is no such automated message to her bank, saying a deposited check is "cleared".  She said the only time they do get a message, is if the other bank cannot transfer the funds due to lack of funds or it was a fraudulent check, or the person has stopped payment somehow.  She said that applies to any type of check.  The last thing that shocked me, was that the current policies in place, stated that "I" the account holder at her bank, "I" am responsible for exactly one year in case there was a snafu and the funds really were not transferred, stopped payment, or some sort of fraud.  She is the person who said "go with a transfer" as it is the only non-reversible instrument.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, alsancle said:

A wire transfer or cash is really the best way to do it.  I was shocked many years ago when I found out that "bank" checks could be revoked after the fact.

 

Cash speaks the loudest and is instant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A bank will tell you "the check cleared" after three days and be completely oblivious as to whether the funds actually exchanged. I have set right there in the bank, specifically asked the question and THEY don't get it.

 

Of course, it may be the upper level managers. I got a letter from the vice president of a bank addressed to my Father, stating that he had achieved the status to be awarded the prestigious "Gold Card". The 15th anniversary of his death?? That's the vice president! I hope the policy is to always hire a person smarter than oneself.

 

They say I take things too literally.

Bernie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, JACK M said:

 

Cash speaks the loudest and is instant.

Yes but only in local sales.  Long distance is wire.  Some people do not want cash for a 15k sale "if" they choose to deposit it at certain banks that are not the old fashioned ones that :know" their customers, and know they do indeed sell items for cash at those amounts.  Others report larger transactions like 15k.  Another tidbit from a antique related company owner that everyone here knows by the company name, told me point blank about "transactions at 9,999k always fly under the radar", his reply was not true.  He said 8900.

 

none of which applies to me at my level of the food chain... :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I bought my 40 Roadmaster conv sedan a decade or more ago, the seller was in Ca. I live on long island. A wire transfer was what did it. My local bank had never done this so I went there and arranged for the seller to be at his bank the same time. We both sat down with our respective bank representatives and they called each other , spoke, got it sorted out with numbers etc and it got done with no hassle. Perhaps have the seller discuss this with the bank there about the title loan he has to settle and let your bank sort it out like I did. I still own that Buick and love it, - a 49,000 mile from new car that had a really excellent total cosmetic restoration in 1972, now showing its age, but I like it, drive it , and don't ever have my cars judged for awards. The one time it did get judged at a GM car show , I wasn't by the car and came to find I won first place at the next local BCA region monthly meeting. Friends had taken the 3 foot tall plastic award that had all kinds of stuff projecting off of it home with them for me , It was the most garish thing I had ever seen. I looked at it and said "well I have the perfect use for it" and proceeded to put it in my garage near my cars and after wiping them off with damp rags hung the rags on all the projections on that award to let the rags  dry. No rust on the rags from the award as it was made of plastic. A friend came over and commented "only you would do this, but ya know, not a bad idea" .

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, F&J said:

 

 

Not that it applies in the case here in post one, but my banker let me in on something I never knew about checks, in my State, in our banking statutes.

 

She said there is no such automated message to her bank, saying a deposited check is "cleared".  She said the only time they do get a message, is if the other bank cannot transfer the funds due to lack of funds or it was a fraudulent check, or the person has stopped payment somehow.  She said that applies to any type of check.  The last thing that shocked me, was that the current policies in place, stated that "I" the account holder at her bank, "I" am responsible for exactly one year in case there was a snafu and the funds really were not transferred, stopped payment, or some sort of fraud.  She is the person who said "go with a transfer" as it is the only non-reversible instrument.

 

Certified checks are a slightly different animal than the regular check and they can be confirmed to be good as cash by the certifying institution.

Checks and money orders can be forged, cash can be counterfeited, even wire transfers can be faked and you are always responsible to the bank for the quality of your deposit. Not only are you responsible, the bank can instantly recover any loss from any account you may have, it doesn't need to come from the same account as the one that received the bad deposit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Digger914 said:

Certified checks are a slightly different animal than the regular check and they can be confirmed to be good as cash by the certifying institution.

Could be definition misunderstanding of your wording but, I have yet to be able to get a bank to call anyone to verify the bank check from another bank.  and even if a banker did call, the check can still be stopped by the person who 'bought" that bank check.

 

paper is just paper, no matter what any law says...there is always a way to get screwed by a s

weird situation...ask your banker in those terms...I did

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Involving law takes things off on an entirely different tangent. If you are looking for truth, justice, and the American way, you are kind of on your own.

 

Of course, I'm the guy who sees a cop with a guy pulled over and writing a ticket. I step on the gas and look at my Wife "Cop's busy!" She says her life has never been dull.

 

When I was a kid my Grandfather taught me to never quote the "rules" or demand my rights. Then we would show me on the next irate customer or consumer rights advocate. Never really bad, just playful sport, but I learned the concepts and intent.

Bernie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Digger914 said:

A certified check made out to both the lender and the seller for the full purchase price gets both parties paid. The purchase agreement printed in the upper portion of the endorsement area gets you clear title and the car on acceptance of payment. Cutting up several slips of paper the size of your check blank helps you set your computer for proper print location and when it's endorsed by both below the agreement it becomes a negotiable instrument and a binding contract.

Wow, that's complicated for an old man to comprehend

Link to comment
Share on other sites

     I'm going to talk to one of my banks tomorrow (long drive from here in the country) and see if there is any sort of a deal they can do, like with some sort of escrow account, whereby they pay the loan company, get the cleared title and then pay the owner with what is left.  If that isn't something they can do I'm going to forget the whole deal. 

     If that doesn't work, one of our BCA guys who lives in that town has offered to go look at the car and also has a friend who is both an attorney and an old car guy, so maybe that will work also.  I don't yet know if that will work out.

     Without that help, in this day and time, trust is not an option.  Everything these days is done with smoke and mirrors and scams are run on people every day, especially old people like me. 

     And finally, a certified check is no good, but a cashier's check is as good as cash, or so says the bank.  A cashier's Check is a check that the bank writes and signs, produces and hands to you in return for cash or withdrawal from  your account.  Be careful not to lose it.  It can be made out to you, or to the seller or both.  The only way you can stop it is to physically take it back and tell them it was not used as intended and then they put the money back into your account.

     The best way to buy a car is go look at it, have the cashier's check in hand, and physically hand it to the man as he hands you the title.  There is no possible way I can go to California from Virginia before at least the very end of June or the first of July.

     It's called unfortunate logistics on my part.  The other man wants to sell the car now, not a month from now.  Some things are just not meant to be.

Edited by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

Wow, that's complicated for an old man to comprehend

 

Putting a performance contract into a personal check isn't an everyday occurrence and it can be a tough concept to comprehend; so in simple English.

 

Making a check out to two different parties with the word and means that both parties need to endorse the check before it can be cashed.  Putting the performance/sales agreement into a check above the endorsement creates a contract that can bring some very severe "federal" penalties for failing to perform. Having your bank certify your personal check makes it as good a financial instrument as a cashiers check purchased from your bank. The difference is that you own the check and even though you only get the electronic image of the canceled check, it is a signed contract returned to you.

 

If you've never seen one, you might need some help with wording of who does what, for what and when. If you ever get one, take it to your bank and ask them to help you verify authenticity with the bank and the account it's drawn on. Then copy both sides of the check and do what you agreed to do in a way that you can prove that you did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/27/2017 at 4:49 PM, Dynaflash8 said:

Can anyone recommend an honest lawyer in Southern California, particularly near Orange, CA, who I could get to finalize a car purchase for me.  It's a little involved, and I need advice and active help to make the deal.  As of now there is nothing wrong, but I don't know how to complete this deal so I get the car and the title.  The man has a title loan on the car.  I need a lawyer to pay it off and then pay the man and get the title.  I can't travel out there to do it, and I'm no rocket scientist.

 

You don't need a lawyer for this.

 

If there is a bank lien on the title - the Seller should have no problem authorizing you to contact the bank directly to verify the amount due on the loan.

Some banks will allow you to send payment to both parties - i.e. a check made out to the Seller and the Bank that requires both endorsements to cash.

Some banks will then agree to recognize you as the Buyer of Record and close out the title and send it directly to you.

 

But that is not physical possession ....

 

Personally - if I was buying a car in another state - I would begin by asking for a copy of the title front & back.

 

Then I would check with the DMV (Department Of Motor Vehicles) to see if the Seller is the owner of record according to them.

 

If the title had a lien - I would check to see who the Lienholder(s) are with the DMV - a car title can have more than one lien.

 

Then I would contact the Lienholder(s) and verify the lien(s) - I would ask their procedure requiring terms of payment and lien release.

 

If everything checked out - I would arrange for direct payment  to the Lienholder(s) first  - conditional on lien releases provided

directly to me as the Buyer - then any residual amount owed to the Seller in cash at pickup.

 

Personally - I would never go thru the aggravation and expense of doing this from another state - it is not worth it.

 

Anyone selling a classic car should have no liens or encumberances on it when they go to sell it out of state.

 

 

Jim

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Jim.  I went to Richmond this morning and talked to Wells Fargo.  They are working on what to do and how best to do it.  Meanwhile I'm waiting for one of our BCA members who is on this thread to go look at the car, hopefully today.  If somebody doesn't buy it now, today or tonight, then I'll wait for our member to report on the car to me, and then I'll decide how to proceed. After all, the pictures could be 20 years old.  Needless to say, the interior is obviously well worn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Dynaflash8 said:

Thanks Jim.  I went to Richmond this morning and talked to Wells Fargo.  They are working on what to do and how best to do it.  Meanwhile I'm waiting for one of our BCA members who is on this thread to go look at the car, hopefully today.  If somebody doesn't buy it now, today or tonight, then I'll wait for our member to report on the car to me, and then I'll decide how to proceed. After all, the pictures could be 20 years old.  Needless to say, the interior is obviously well worn. 

Hi, Earl.

 

I wonder if Dave Chiotti (past AACA Director) lives anywhere near the car or could offer some assistance.  Just a thought...

 

Peter J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peter: I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in the San Francisco area where Dave is, but this car is way down in the LA area where I no long know a soul personally.  However, through this website and Buick Club members I have been introduced to a Club member in the same town who is willing to go look at the car, and has written me that he is going today.

 

The bank can handle the whole deal for me.  It may cost me something and probably will, but the clinker could be that it will likely take a month.  The loan company has up to 30 days to get a title over to the bank who would then pay the owner.  Or, maybe the separate payments are simultaneous I don't know for sure.  The bank just called me.and said they can do the deal if it clears eBay tonight.  I need to call him tomorrow.  The man who went to look at the car for me gave a pretty good report. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

Peter: I have plenty of friends and acquaintances in the San Francisco area where Dave is, but this car is way down in the LA area where I no long know a soul personally.  However, through this website and Buick Club members I have been introduced to a Club member in the same town who is willing to go look at the car, and has written me that he is going today.

 

The bank can handle the whole deal for me.  It may cost me something and probably will, but the clinker could be that it will likely take a month.  The loan company has up to 30 days to get a title over to the bank who would then pay the owner.  Or, maybe the separate payments are simultaneous I don't know for sure.  The bank just called me.and said they can do the deal if it clears eBay tonight.  I need to call him tomorrow.  The man who went to look at the car for me gave a pretty good report. 

Now it is starting to sound positive, Earl.  Wish the best...

 

Peter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...