Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Can anyone tell me what the color of the door lock pulls would be for a light blue standard (non-wood interior) in 1964? Would they be a darker (navy) blue like my carpet or a lighter blue like my seats, door panels, and headliner? My turn signal knob is light blue so am I right in thinking the door pulls would be the same shade of blue? Plus, is the shape of the black pulls in the picture I attached correct, or are they more like the chrome version that has smooth sides at the top? Thanks, Darren Edited May 22, 2017 by dwhiteside64 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Chrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 57 minutes ago, RivNut said: Chrome. Oh, So Rivieras with the standard interior had chrome door pulls as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivgs Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 No, Deluxe interiors were chrome. The door lock knobs would be the lighter blue to match the vinyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Thanks Kevin for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 9 hours ago, rivgs said: No, Deluxe interiors were chrome. The door lock knobs would be the lighter blue to match the vinyl. Learn something new every day. I've never owned a standard interior car. Apparently there are other differences as well. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 In 1963, even with a standard interior, the lock knob pulls were chrome. Look in the Master Chassis Parts Book for 1964 and see how they list the parts in the application notes for the model numbers. I'm the 1963 specialist, not 1964. I don't have the Master Chassis Parts Book for 1964. But it should show you. The 1963 book does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, rivgs said: No, Deluxe interiors were chrome. The door lock knobs would be the lighter blue to match the vinyl. 20 hours ago, dwhiteside64 said: Can anyone tell me what the color of the door lock pulls would be for a light blue standard (non-wood interior) in 1964? Would they be a darker (navy) blue like my carpet or a lighter blue like my seats, door panels, and headliner? My turn signal knob is light blue so am I right in thinking the door pulls would be the same shade of blue? Plus, is the shape of the black pulls in the picture I attached correct, or are they more like the chrome version that has smooth sides at the top? Thanks, Darren Hi Darren, In `64, the custom interior trim was equipped with chrome knobs and the standard interior trim had colored knobs to match the color of the interior. My `64 Buick parts book, for the 4747 model, lists medium blue, fawn, silver, black, red, and chrome. There is a listing for a dark blue knob but that is the 4337 model only. Regarding the shape of the original knob the pictured knob is very close but looks like the features/changes in diameter are rounded off. Could be the angle of the pic or the fact it is black instead of chrome? The original knob has 3 distinct enlarged diameters after the threaded stem and the transitions are sharp edged and more angular than the knobs pictured. Tom Mooney Edited May 22, 2017 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Jim Cannon said: In 1963, even with a standard interior, the lock knob pulls were chrome. Look in the Master Chassis Parts Book for 1964 and see how they list the parts in the application notes for the model numbers. I'm the 1963 specialist, not 1964. I don't have the Master Chassis Parts Book for 1964. But it should show you. The 1963 book does. Jim, My `63 Buick parts book is showing blue, fawn, silver and chrome for the 4747 model? It would seem those colors would coordinate with the blue, sandalwood and silver standard interior trims? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cannon Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 16 hours ago, 1965rivgs said: Jim, My `63 Buick parts book is showing blue, fawn, silver and chrome for the 4747 model? It would seem those colors would coordinate with the blue, sandalwood and silver standard interior trims? Tom Tom, I went back and looked in my book. I missed the little "4747"s hiding in the model numbers listed on those 3 pulls. And I agree these colors match the standard interior color options. It's strange, because we have an ROA member up in the Detroit area with an original unmolested 1963 Riv (18,000 original miles) with a standard interior. This car has zero options. And in the photos he sent me, it looks like the lock pulls are chrome. They are shiny. They are not the color of his Sandlewood vinyl interior. And I know they have not been messed with. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Thanks guys for all the great info. I wanted to match the door lock pulls with the turn signal and tilt wheel knobs as it looks like that would make it period correct. I knew they were most likely non-chrome from what was said in the parts manual but I really didn't know the shade of blue they were talking about. I needed that to find the correct ones. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 As an additional factor, only the Electra and the Riviera offered chrome knobs. BTW, the 64 Color-Trim Book shows all Rivieras with chrome knobs (irrespective of trim level), while other models clearly have colored knobs in the illustrations. IMHO, go for the chrome. They just look better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, KongaMan said: IMHO, go for the chrome. They just look better. X2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 23 hours ago, KongaMan said: As an additional factor, only the Electra and the Riviera offered chrome knobs. BTW, the 64 Color-Trim Book shows all Rivieras with chrome knobs (irrespective of trim level), while other models clearly have colored knobs in the illustrations. IMHO, go for the chrome. They just look better. I agree that the chrome version has a bigger 'bling" factor but I'm trying my best to get my car as close to factory correct as possible so blue will have to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 "BTW, the 64 Color-Trim Book shows all Rivieras with chrome knobs (irrespective of trim level), while other models clearly have colored knobs in the illustrations." Who really knows what is correct? If they ran out of blue ones, they weren't going to shut down the line just for that so they'd probably grab chrome ones. If it's this controversial, no one looking at your car is going to know either. Isn't the little escutcheon that surrounds the knob chrome plated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, dwhiteside64 said: I agree that the chrome version has a bigger 'bling" factor but I'm trying my best to get my car as close to factory correct as possible so blue will have to do.... Except that blue might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 You guys make me laugh lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 5 hours ago, RivNut said: "BTW, the 64 Color-Trim Book shows all Rivieras with chrome knobs (irrespective of trim level), while other models clearly have colored knobs in the illustrations." Who really knows what is correct? If they ran out of blue ones, they weren't going to shut down the line just for that so they'd probably grab chrome ones. If it's this controversial, no one looking at your car is going to know either. Isn't the little escutcheon that surrounds the knob chrome plated? There is no doubt if a correct part was not available workers on the assembly line would make due with what was available. I have been told this by those that were there including the option of raiding a part from R and D which was on hand for the next model year by an individual who was a liason between assembly and upper level management specifically on the Riviera assembly line. However, there is a difference between the odd ball abnormality and the norm. Most folks reference the norm. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 0:23 PM, KongaMan said: As an additional factor, only the Electra and the Riviera offered chrome knobs. BTW, the 64 Color-Trim Book shows all Rivieras with chrome knobs (irrespective of trim level), while other models clearly have colored knobs in the illustrations. IMHO, go for the chrome. They just look better. I checked my copy of the `64 Color and Trim book in spite of the fact I have found these books to be an unreliable source for details even when there are actual photographs of prototypes. For instance, the `63 Color and Trim book doesnt show knobs at all on the illustrations of the door panels! The only illustration of a standard interior Riviera in the `64 Color and Trim book is a poor artist`s rendering with shading intended to replicate light falling on the upper door panel/door lock knob area. Also, the interior is silver in color! The knob could very well be silver as listed in the `64 parts book, as it appears dull. Or it could be chrome but the rendering is so poor it is impossible to tell. This is not a good source for providing a definitive answer to Darren`s question. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 On 5/23/2017 at 7:56 AM, Jim Cannon said: Tom, I went back and looked in my book. I missed the little "4747"s hiding in the model numbers listed on those 3 pulls. And I agree these colors match the standard interior color options. It's strange, because we have an ROA member up in the Detroit area with an original unmolested 1963 Riv (18,000 original miles) with a standard interior. This car has zero options. And in the photos he sent me, it looks like the lock pulls are chrome. They are shiny. They are not the color of his Sandlewood vinyl interior. And I know they have not been messed with. Go figure! Jim, I`m not sure how you or anyone can be sure no one has messed with something as easily changed as the lock knobs after 50 years even on an original car? But there is an actual photo which was published as an addition to the `63 Color and Trim book (I remember forwarding same to you?) which pictures the standard trim in Sandalwood. The knob is definitely chromed in this picture! Is a picture of a prototype door panel an accurate representation of the panel as produced en masse? In general I would prefer another source like the actual cars or period photos as found in original road tests, etc. Considering the fact we know Buick was making changes in early `63 from painted surfaces to chrome with the A-pillar moldings it is not a stretch to imagine they were making other changes. This is something we can start paying attention to on the actual cars to see if a pattern develops. Can you add this observation to the survey you are conducting? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 (edited) I think the point is that there isn't a definitive answer. Or if there is, it demands research at a level of anality to which I do not aspire. BTW, the trim book also lists "bright interior moldings" for blue (621), white (624), black (628), and saddle (629) custom interiors, but not for any other interiors. I'd still go with chrome. Edited May 24, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, KongaMan said: I think the point is that there isn't a definitive answer. Or if there is, it demands research at a level of anality to which I do not inspire. BTW, the trim book also lists "bright interior moldings" for blue (621), white (624), black (628), and saddle (629) custom interiors, but not for any other interiors. I'd still go with chrome. A definitive answer can be found in enough of the actual cars and period photos of production models, like can be found in back in the day road tests, among other sources. I will start paying attention to the `63 and `64 models. I`m sure beyond a shadow of a doubt the `65 Rivs had colored knobs in standard trims and chrome knobs in custom trims. After decades of exposure to the basics I live for this type of detail. How could I deny it while I have my nose planted in 50 year old Trim and parts books to satisfy my curiosity? The bright moldings are surely a reference to the chrome headliner trim moldings which are only found in the custom trim interiors. The standard interiors had painted headliner trim moldings. In later `63, `64, and `65 the A pillar moldings were chromed no matter which trim level was chosen. I think the original question was not a matter of personal preference but what is "correct" for an original car. I also prefer the chromed knobs not only for appearance but because they are metal instead of plastic. But I do appreciate a car that is presented/restored to be an historically accurate representation Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I guess one could use his google-fu to look up listings of cars for sale. For example, there's an old eBay auction for a 64 that looks to have fawn knobs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dwhiteside64 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Not to throw more confusion into the mix, but here's an example of a '64 I found using KongaMan's suggestion. It has the upgraded interior but the door lock pulls are clearly blue, the shade of which matches the vinyl perfectly. From the look of them I can't believe that they are aftermarket replacements (they even have an aged look to them). And again, if one wanted to replace them who would go with a unflattering blue instead of chrome? Unless of course you're crazy like me! But like other easy to change items, it's hard to know if they are truly original from the factory or not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 The patina on these sure makes them look original. If the line worker ran out of chrome ones then the swap would be explainable. I guess the only way to know for sure is for an original owner of a car to offer their input. I have owned two 64's and three 65's all with deluxe interior and all of mine had chrome. Things can happen on an assembly line due to running changes or supply shortages. I have a 1971 Monte Carlo that I bought new. The rear brake drums on mine are not finned even though the shop manual specifies that they should be and I have seen other original '71 Monte's with finned drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) I'll add even more confusion... My 64 has that very interior -- and chrome knobs. Edited May 25, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Amazing the number of posts on what seemed like a simple topic. Aside from supply issues of correct knobs, something small like this could even have been dependent on the line worker. "Hey lets put Mikey the new guy on afternoon shift in charge of installing door lock knobs. He can't mess that up". Really, I could see confusion among line workers on something like this considering the state of manufacturing back then. If seen at the end of line its not likely something that an inspector would reject and put aside to change out as long as they either matched interior color or universal chrome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 This pic is from an Ebay listing which is current. This appears to be a very honest car, priced on the high side IMO as it is listed by a dealer. Many good pics including detailed interior shots like the painted headliner moldings which are correct for a standard interior car. This listing is close to me so I could view this car for a SERIOUS buyer, Tom Mooney http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Buick-Riviera-/112421169207?hash=item1a2cd2e837:g:6u8AAOSw9OFZKQ8Z&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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