Lebowski Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) ....and it's beyond my capability so I was wondering about how many hours labor would be reasonable for this job from a repair shop? I took it in for a front end alignment a couple weeks ago and that's what the mechanic told me is the reason why the car is all over the road and won't steer straight. He said the right ball joint was fine but the left one and the center link need to be replaced even though the car only has 38k miles on it. I asked the guy to give me an estimate but haven't heard back from him so I thought I would ask you guys what you thought was reasonable. I looked up the cost of the parts from NAPA and it looks like the ball joint is around $100 and the center link is around $275 which seems like a lot. The shop charges $95 an hour for labor which is cheaper than the GM dealer and they only have one complaint in the last 3 years on the BBB website so that's not bad either. Also, can anyone recommend a decent mechanic in the Louisville area who may want to do this job? Any comments are welcome. Thanks.... Edited May 19, 2017 by Lebowski (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawteachr Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Did you try rockauto.com for the parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 39 minutes ago, Lawteachr said: Did you try rockauto.com for the parts? I just looked and I don't think they sell ball joints or a center link.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Steering and suspension parts for the 1965-1970 GM full size cars can be difficult to find. Each division used different parts, so the commonly available Impala suspension and steering parts usually won't work. Your best bet is to find the GM part numbers and do a search. Many NOS parts are still offered on ebay, as are out-of-production replacement parts like TRW and Moog. About the only source for new US-made parts for some of these items is Rare Parts, and $275 for a center link sounds about right if that's where you are getting it from. Most auto parts stores (like NAPA) can source Rare Parts items, but you will likely get the best price ordering directly from them. Kanter also sells suspension parts for these cars, but beware that many of their items are Chinesium "white box" parts. For example, the ball joints they sell for my similar 67 Delta 88 look nothing like the originals. I was able to source old Moog parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Joe Padavano is correct about Kanter--they catalog those parts and at a cheaper price than yours but word is they will slip in Chinese parts sometimes and their phone assistance can be spotty if you have a problem or a return. I have used them with satisfaction in the past but that has been a while ago. Ames Pontiac (www.amesperf.com) has them in their Full Size catalog for $75 for the uppers, $85 for the lowers and $169 for the center link (they have a footnote on the lowers regarding some 1965s). All Pontiac owners should have their free catalog. Years ago I had some front end work done by Ride-Wright Tire in Elizabethtown, 270-737-0808, it might be worth a phone call or a drive over, good luck, Todd Crews POCI 1957 Technical Advisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 it's seems a little strange that the left ball joint was the first to wear out, usually, it's the right side(except in england). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, cheezestaak2000 said: it's seems a little strange that the left ball joint was the first to wear out, usually, it's the right side(except in england). Frankly, I would replace all four at this time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Frankly, I would replace all four at this time. I concur with Joe about that too, might as well do it all while you are in there and the parts are available (how many of us have said THAT before.....) Todd C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 POCI1957 has it all correct.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 hour ago, poci1957 said: I concur with Joe about that too, might as well do it all while you are in there and the parts are available (how many of us have said THAT before.....) Todd C The MIGHTASWELLS are why my projects take so much longer than originally thought... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 7 hours ago, joe_padavano said: Frankly, I would replace all four at this time. The rich guy with 14 cars says I should get all four replaced even though only one is bad? LOL. I don't think so.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 34 minutes ago, Lebowski said: The rich guy with 14 cars says I should get all four replaced even though only one is bad? LOL. I don't think so.... I have a big problem with advising to replace perfectly good parts, just because.... That may have been OK in the era when that car was not that old as a commuter car, but geez, off shore parts can be suspect as well as wear out quickly, or not fit well, etc. We are not informed when we order them. We are chance buying. I see some build threads on here on getting inside a 1940s-50s standard trans and are advised to swap out all new bearings even if nice. Here I go with more enemies on here, but : "that" advice on trans bearings is just plain ignorant, and before you hate, that word comes from the root word of "to ignore", meaning they do not realize that unknown bearings, if then failing quickly, requires a very huge job to go back in there.....like in a torque tube type car. Call N.B. Pease & co in the AM on Sat. Closed at noon...he may/may not, have NOS. I know he had one for a friends 64 chevelle and beat the pants off auto stores on price, four one three, two eight three, 7620 Palmer Mass, in business 60? years NORS, etc No recorder, no website, keep trying esp. on weekdays, closed Wed's I buy my Ujoints seals bearings there, I don't care if I paid 25 for a 65 Mustang ujoint that is 6$ at rockauto...I got an old one, USA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Lebowski said: get all four replaced still poking with a stick...lol Back in the 70s , a GM dealer would insist on both lowers, but if the boots were fine on uppers, and also if upper A arm bushings weren't ovaled, then they never did all four...as uppers rarely wear out If A arms bushings get oval, meaning distorted, you cannot guarantee the customer that the alignment will last. At that point uppers were suggested to the customer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Simmons Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 My experience is that suspension parts wear semi equally in most cases. So "I don't think so" is in the same vein as I'll only put one lug-nut on to hold the wheel on. It leads to I should have really listened to the good advice I was given and I wouldn't be here again and so quickly too. One new part puts more pressure on the rest of the existing older ones leading to quicker failure on their part. Which leads to more money and more downtime on the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Mark Simmons said: One new part puts more pressure on the rest of the existing older ones not true, geez, where did you hear that? nonsense I am former ASE front end certified...so don't even start... Internet is full opinions that affect others decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 9 hours ago, mike6024 said: I don't understand why the center whole center link would need to be replaced. Doesn't it have rubber bushings at the ends that could be changed out, while the rest is just a piece of iron that can be re-used? That makes sense to me. Maybe the mechanic doesn't know what he's doing or maybe he's trying to rip me off? I don't know but either way I think I need to find another shop to get a second opinion since I don't know much about ball joints and center links. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 9 hours ago, Mark Simmons said: So "I don't think so" is in the same vein as I'll only put one lug-nut on to hold the wheel on. Now there's an intelligent comparison-NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 12 hours ago, Lebowski said: The rich guy with 14 cars says I should get all four replaced even though only one is bad? LOL. I don't think so.... Your car, your time and money. My nearly half a century of experience has taught me that if one part is bad, the similar parts are likely to fail in the not too distant future. Since you already pointed out that you can't do this work yourself, feel free to pay a shop FOUR times to do the work. Suspension and brakes are the two systems on the car that I don't cut corners on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, joe_padavano said: Your car, your time and money. My nearly half a century of experience has taught me that if one part is bad, the similar parts are likely to fail in the not too distant future. Since you already pointed out that you can't do this work yourself, feel free to pay a shop FOUR times to do the work. Suspension and brakes are the two systems on the car that I don't cut corners on. I'm 65 and have owned a lot of old cars over the years and one thing I've learned is that wasting a lot of money on unnecessary repairs is stupid. If you want to do that then that's your problem. Why do you need 14 cars anyway? Are we supposed to be impressed by seeing them listed every time you leave a response on this site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Lebowski said: That makes sense to me. Maybe the mechanic doesn't know what he's doing or maybe he's trying to rip me off? I don't know but either way I think I need to find another shop to get a second opinion since I don't know much about ball joints and center links. Thanks.... You MIGHT want to get a better understanding of how your steering works before making such statements, as it is NOT correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Lebowski said: I'm 65 and have owned a lot of old cars over the years and one thing I've learned is that wasting a lot of money on unnecessary repairs is stupid. If you want to do that then that's your problem. Why do you need 14 cars anyway? Are we supposed to be impressed by seeing them listed every time you leave a response on this site? You've clearly mistaken me for someone who gives a s**t. Enjoy your car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Now isn't that fun? Where I am from, a Bonneville is a Triumph motorcycle and I am struggling to see where the centre link goes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Spinney, that center link connects the front forks to the rear wheel, and also holds the engine.... I am with those that only replace the bad parts. I see no reason to replace perfectly good parts. Now, I did say perfectly good parts. If I'm in there for a repair and there is wear detected on other companion parts, although they are still serviceable, then they get replaced. But F&J speaks the truth about new parts being worse then old parts in some cases. I would rather run used and serviceable parts on my car than replace with white box Chinese that does not fit right and fails soon. I've had issues with rear wheel bearings sourced both through NAPA and some specialty marque suppliers. If an alignment technician says one ball joint is bad and the others show no wear, then I would just replace the one part. If he says this one is real bad, and the others are worn but OK for now, then probably all getting replaced at once is the best procedure. The picture of the center link shows pressed in joints on the ends. If you can source those pressed in bushings, then you would not need to replace the metal link. BUT good luck with that! Since a wheel alignment is needed after replacing ball joints or center link, I would have the alignment shop do the work instead of going to two places. If you trusted them to do an alignment , you should trust them to do the work. If not, you started at the wrong shop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 What about the ball joint that it needs? Does this place sell them too or would I have to get it somewhere else? Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Thanks for the link and the advice, Mike. So you think I should buy the whole rebuild kit plus replace the one ball joint that's bad? Are these parts made in the US? I'm going to try to find another shop if I don't hear from the first shop tomorrow. Thanks again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 On May 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, mike6024 said: Yes they will sell individual parts. I believe the whole kit for $339 is a good deal. But I was concerned when you said NAPA wanted $100 for one ball joint plus $275 for the center link. You might be getting low quality parts with a huge mark-up in that case. They can gouge people on parts they consider "vintage" or "rare." You should call them on Monday, P S T, 800-247-2288, M-F 8:30-6:30pm EST Inner tie rod end '65 Bonneville - http://p-s-t.com/series-220187-inner-tie-rod-end.html#!year%3D1965||make%3DPONTIAC||model%3DBONNEVILLE Outer end (ball joint) $29 - http://p-s-t.com/series-220180-outer-tie-rod-end.html#!year%3D1965||make%3DPONTIAC||model%3DBONNEVILLE Center link $135 - http://p-s-t.com/series-220188-center-link.html#!year%3D1965||make%3DPONTIAC||model%3DBONNEVILLE (there is no price for the inner tie rod end because it depends if it is driver side or passenger side and also if your car is early or late '65, depending on serial number, so you need to call them to figure it out. Probably best to have your car serial number when you call) I took the car to another shop today and the guy put it on a lift and spent several minutes with a pry bar trying to see what was loose and what wasn't. He said the tie rods are fine but 3 of the ball joints are bad and the center link is bad too so I'm going to just replace all 4 ball joints and the center link. I went to the PST site and they show an upper and lower ball joint so should I get two of each plus the center link or is there a difference between left side and right side ball joints? Are these parts made in the USA? Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Lebowski said: I took the car to another shop today and the guy put it on a lift and...3 of the ball joints are bad and the center link is bad too so I'm going to just replace all 4 ball joints and the center link. Hmm, I think that is what Joe Padavano suggested four days ago... too bad that guy is just a rich blowhard... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, poci1957 said: Hmm, I think that is what Joe Padavano suggested four days ago... too bad that guy is just a rich blowhard... The first guy thought the other three were fine. That's why I got a second opinion. Several other guys also said that replacing good parts is stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 There is a very distinct difference between stupidity and ignorance. I is always my policy to err on the side of ignorance. You have your opinion, the first guy's, and the second guy's. Pretend they are all bad, full of hardened 50 year old grease, The balls on all the sockets are worn oval (tight and loose depending on position) and the rubber boots are cracked and will leak in water as soon as you start driving it. Change the old dry rubber swaybar link bushings and the swaybar support bushings too. Then, at the end of the day, sit on the edge of you bed, take off your shoes and socks, and ask yourself "Was I too cautious today?" I do that some nights. It makes me smile and I sleep well. I'd say Don would be a good third opinion. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 I don't know what Don had been smoking when he said that but I sure wish it was legal here since my wife won't let me move to Colorado.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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