Ideas for classics that accommodate young drivers

[charlier]

5 hours ago, Turismo said:

This thread did give me a direction of where to look. With a hobby that seems as convoluted as this one (obviously you would say otherwise), I wanted some guidance instead of making the impulsive and naive decisions. Buying a classic is a big commitment and I wanted ideas for a starter. Later on, I'll probably just follow my suitings instead of advice. Thank you  for your input!

 

Welcome to the AACA Forum!

 

Good to see that you are looking to avoid impulsive and naive decisions regarding a vehicle.

So, what are your plans to deal with the challenges you face posed by insuring the vehicle you want to buy?

Do you already have all these challenges worked out (a company that will insure you and the older vehicle you desire and the high cost of insurance you are facing)? 

How do those costs compare to or impact your budget? How/who will be paying for your auto insurance? 

 

Best of Luck with your search for your first vehicle.

 

Charlie

 

[Guest Turismo]

So, i just wanted to put this question out there; do any of these recommendations actually do well in a crash? Better safe than sorry.

[auburnseeker]

Think of an old car more like a Motorcycle though still a whole world safer than a bike.   Most weren't built with safety in mind and even the ones that were are very rudimentary compared to today's gadgets and air cushions from every direction.  If safety is your biggest concern then an old car may not be the best choice unless you want something from the 1980's or 90's.  Extra caution is needed when piloting an old car. Stopping distances will be greater,  Maneuverability will not be as good.  Alot of these old cars were called boats for a reason, especially when you get into the big 60's/ 70's sedans.    You will have to decide what level of sacrifice is acceptable.  Probably many would still fare better than a smart car. 

[Guest Turismo]

Just now, auburnseeker said:

Think of an old car more like a Motorcycle though still a whole world safer than a bike.   Most weren't built with safety in mind and even the ones that were are very rudimentary compared to today's gadgets and air cushions from every direction.  If safety is your biggest concern then an old car may not be the best choice unless you want something from the 1980's or 90's.  Extra caution is needed when piloting an old car. Stopping distances will be greater,  Maneuverability will not be as good.  Alot of these old cars were called boats for a reason, especially when you get into the big 60's/ 70's sedans.    You will have to decide what level of sacrifice is acceptable.  Probably many would still fare better than a smart car. 

The reason it's a huge concern is because of OTHER people. It may sound ignorant and naive, but I'm confident in my ability to handle myself properly on the road. I've known that safety was not exactly a priority in the 1960's. Surely, modifications can be made to make it a tad safer?

[cahartley]

On 5/17/2017 at 11:10 PM, Turismo said:

So, i just wanted to put this question out there; do any of these recommendations actually do well in a crash? Better safe than sorry.

 

The honest answer is absolutely not....... 

The wrecks of today from which people have survived were unthought of not that many years ago.

It pains me to post this link because they are smashing to pieces my favorite car ever but facts are facts.

(There have been numerous thoughts about the exact  circumstances and condition of the car in the video which happens to be the same mode and color as my current Bel Air.......  .......although the trim on the video car makes it an Impala)

 

 

[mike6024]

I am surprised the heavier '59 didn't fare better. In a straight head-on instead of this "offset" crash it probably would have done better.

 

Here is an interesting crash where a new Impala fared poorly: it got ripped in half.

 

When Lansang opened her eyes, she started screaming. Surveying the carnage of her car, she looked onto the hillside and saw what she at first thought was another vehicle involved in the crash. Witnesses later told her it was, in fact, the other half of her own Impala.

 

 

 

[cahartley]

^ That's the unthought of part I was getting at....... 

[Guest Turismo]

On 5/18/2017 at 0:06 AM, cahartley said:

 

The honest answer is absolutely not....... 

The wrecks of today from which people have survived were unthought of not that many years ago.

It pains me to post this link because they are smashing to pieces my favorite car ever but facts are facts.

(There have been numerous thoughts about the exact  circumstances and condition of the car in the video which happens to be the same mode and color as my current Bel Air.......  .......although the trim on the video car makes it an Impala)

 

 

RIP Bel-Air too, at least the fuzzy dice survived.The whole prospect of a crash is making the decision extra difficult. Some people drive 50's as dailies too....

[MikeC5]

In general the more modern the car, the safer it will be all else being equal (weight, engine location, etc.).  Whatever you end up buying, keep in mind that adding seat belts is something that can be done (with proper reinforcements) and is a whole lot better than nothing.  My 2 cents here would be to not limit yourself to the big 3.  You might find a 50's, or early 60's independent such as Studebaker, Nash, Rambler (AMC) are vehicles that have an off beat quality that can make them more interesting.  Mechanical parts for these are still pretty easy to come by too.

[padgett]

 

 

BTW been following airbags since the 1974 Caddy but only recently have they been found to be lethal. OTOH have been wearing seat belts and harnesses since the early 60s. Further generally sit with the seat all the way back and reclined. Know of at least one impalement that was averted by this (though the Snell-approved helmet split my forehead & took two layers and 25 stitches to close). Airbag would not have helped since would have deployed on initial impact and T-bone of ditch took place over 400 feet later.

[Graham Man]

I picked up a rust free 1964 Falcon 2 door hardtop a couple of summers ago for $1600.  She had new tires and ran and drove great 50,000 miles on the clock.  Strait 6 200 CID 30 mpg.  Look for a six (less money) the Falcon was the platform for the Mustang so all the mechanical parts are the same, but the car cost half as much and just as much fun to drive.  Love the AMC cars, just slightly harder to find parts.  The small cars from the 60s are extremely easy to repair, good mpg, stop reasonably well, and designed to run 70 all day long, great starter cars.

[Digger914]

On 5/17/2017 at 11:10 PM, Turismo said:

So, i just wanted to put this question out there; do any of these recommendations actually do well in a crash? Better safe than sorry.

 

Haven't seen one suggested yet but the old enough to be collector status car that I know will do best in an accident is an early to mid 90's Chrysler LeBaron hard top. Originally designed as a convertible the hard top was added to an already strengthened chasse and that made for one strong unibody car. The first year airbags came standard on all Chryslers two brand new LeBarons hit head on, both cars were totaled, both drivers walked away from the accident, only one driver was wearing a seatbelt. The damage to both vehicles and the lack of injury was so impressive, Chrysler bought both cars, put them on a flatbed trailer and shipped them around the country.

 

 

[poci1957]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 10:10 PM, Turismo said:

So, i just wanted to put this question out there; do any of these recommendations actually do well in a crash? Some people just can't drive for shit, better safe than sorry.

 

Just to follow up on this question and the Chevy crash video, in a crash of any force an old car will not protect you like a newer one and each successive decade added improvements.  Digger914's suggestion of a 1990s LeBaron is a good one if an early 1990s car is sufficiently old to be interesting to you.  My earlier suggestion of going 1967 or later was due to some early improvements being phased in: pre-1967 your safety equipment was limited to sometimes seatbelts and maybe padded sun visors.  In 1967 you got mandated lap belts, a dual master cylinder, and an "energy absorbing" steering column designed to not impale the driver.  In 1968 you got (separate) shoulder belts in most cars except convertibles and headrests on the seats (none before, for appearance sake).  By 1971 (I think) you got side guard door beams and by the early 1980s crumple zones and so on.

 

Bottom line, a few old car people may have deluded themselves to believe old cars are well built and safe in a crash but most of us know they are not and just accept that risk as a trade off for other aspects of old car enjoyment.  Living in a still wide open part of the Midwest this is not much of a concern of mine, but if I drove on major metro expressways in rush hour every day I would probably be more risk averse.  BUT as auburnseeker says a motorcycle is worse and if you think of the old car in those terms it is easier to accept that it is not totally anti-social, good luck, Todd C 

 

[MCHinson]

Just a quick note from a moderator...

 

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[Matt Harwood]

Old cars are not inherently UNsafe, but they are not as safe as a modern car in a crash. Avoid the crash and an old car is as safe as any other. It's the unpredictability of the world that means you'll take your chances--that's why they're called "accidents."

 

We have a lot of guys who walk into our showroom and look at some of these big old cars with huge bumpers and a massive grille and think those cars will plow through a bunker without a dent. They talk about accidents they've seen where the old car "doesn't even have a scratch" but the modern "piece of plastic crap" was completely smashed. Guess what? That's the modern car doing it's job to keep the occupants alive. There are astronomical forces at work in a crash and a car that doesn't bend or wrinkle is sending all that crash energy into the soft, fleshy occupants of the car. So yes, the car will fare just fine. You? You're now mushy pulp in a skin bag. The car wrinkling and bending is exactly what you want, dissipating the energy before it reaches the occupants. Watch some of those slow-motion crash videos and you can actually see the energy wave moving through the car and dissipating before it reaches the driver. Pretty remarkable.

 

That said, I'm in the camp with some of these other guys that a 6-cylinder car from the '60s is just about ideal. We've sold quite a few 6-cylinder Mustang coupes and they do everything well for not a lot of cash. You can get very clean ones that are ready to drive for $12,000 or thereabouts. They're not glamorous but they're thrifty, reliable, easy to maintain, and plenty peppy for the daily grind. I found one for the 17-year-old kid who used to mop my floors and he drives it to school every day in the warm weather and loves it. I think we paid $8500 for it. They're out there. Falcons are even better because they're cheaper with the same hardware underneath. Avoid rusty cars and everything else is cheap and easy to fix.

 

Most of all, have fun. If you don't enjoy it, what's the point?

[mike6024]

When I lived in Los Angeles and Orange County I felt driving was not dangerous. I got rear-ended a few times, not too hard. Once i was dead stopped at a red, in my '74 Bug btw, and driver behind me not paying attention, probably braked a little, hit me hard, knocked my rear bumper off. I was not hurt. '74's have high seat back which is like a headrest, and they have lap and shoulder belts. Another time I was driving in the right lane on a 6-lane boulevard and someone pulled away from a curb parking spot without looking and I got a crease along my passenger door. But in spite of driving in extremely heavy traffic it did not seem dangerous. There were times I had to brake to avoid someone else's unsafe lane change. Opportunities for head-on crashes don't really exist with divided boulevards and freeways. And do not go on a green light unless you first look for possible red-light runners among the cross traffic.

 

On the other hand, here in more rural Northern California with winding 2 lane highways and country roads the chance of a head-on or getting run off the road is quite high. Someone will come around a blind curve and be over the center line and speeding.. And if someone runs you off the road you will likely goo off an embankment or smack into an oak or redwood tree. It is amazing how many young drivers are killed by going off the road into a tree or a ditch.

[Rusty_OToole]

59 - 60 Chev was made of tissue paper and tinsel. One of the least crash worthy cars ever. If you want an old car that will survive a crash get a 1949 through 1954 Chrysler or DeSoto. Especially the 49 - 52 models, they will destroy anything you hit or that hits you.

 

Dodge likewise. Years ago I asked a guy who ran a crusher that squashes cars at the junk yard, what kind of car was hardest to squash. He said immediately " an old Dodge". Then there were the Chrysler Imperials, they were so tough they were banned from demolition derbies. They just pulverized the competition so bad there was no contest.

 

Auto safety first became an issue in the late sixties and early seventies (early sixties for Volvo). Cars before that were hit or miss.

 

I always assume you don't want to drive an old car in real meat axey highway traffic (I know I don't). If you stay on suburban streets, 2 lane roads and around small towns crash safety is less of an issue.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

 

Let me have a 1951 or 52 Chrysler New Yorker or Imperial sedan, equipped with 6 point seat belt and the seat securely bolted down, and I will drive it head on into any modern car you care to drive at any speed you care to name.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[F&J]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:23 PM, mike6024 said:

in my '74 Bug btw, and driver behind me not paying attention, probably braked a little, hit me hard, knocked my rear bumper off. I was not hurt. '74's have high seat back which is like a headrest, and they have lap and shoulder belts.

Tidbit for VW.  68 was first headrest .In 71, seat tracks were made stronger on bugs for rear end crashes that ripped tracks out of floor, then really beefed further in 73.  Then crash bumpers in 74

 

 

seems like drivers got worse, not that the original car was deadly?

[padgett]

Back in the day, a car was a thing of pride and there were few distractions. Today cars are appliances and the world is full of distractions. When I was growing up a TV in the drivers vision was illegal. Today everyone has multimedia and traffic is so dense I often cannot see a following car's headlights. The only good thing about that is they cannot hit me hard.

 

Biggest difference of modern times is if I need to brake hard, my first glance is to the rear view mirror. Few months ago I was rearended while stopped by a lady who did not see a fire truck with all lights going blocking the road.

[1937hd45]

Did she choke on her cell phone?

[60FlatTop]

I saw that Chevy crash quite a while ago and immediately thought of the two guys whom got "fired" from there jobs for blowing up a couple of vans. It has to be more yellow journalism based on the choice of cars. They say some people don't trust the news.

 

Both cars weigh a nominal 3500 pounds. One has most of the mass mounted transversely across the leading edge, sort of a heavy block with a lighter block behind. The other has its weight distributed longitudinally, mostly on the center line. The '59 has a frame that is made of front and rear Y segments with a center connector. Sort of like three parallel flexible drinking straws. The accident was staged with the impact off center. A couple years ago, when I first saw it my comment was "Well, Duh." Hasn't changed today.

 

I usually say that conspiracy theories give far to much credit to the proposed conspirators, but in this instance it looks like they were smart enough to pick exactly the right cars.

 

I would give the the Dandy Dandeloin Pen Award for that one.

Bernie

[Guest Turismo]

13 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I saw that Chevy crash quite a while ago and immediately thought of the two guys whom got "fired" from there jobs for blowing up a couple of vans. It has to be more yellow journalism based on the choice of cars. They say some people don't trust the news.

 

Both cars weigh a nominal 3500 pounds. One has most of the mass mounted transversely across the leading edge, sort of a heavy block with a lighter block behind. The other has its weight distributed longitudinally, mostly on the center line. The '59 has a frame that is made of front and rear Y segments with a center connector. Sort of like three parallel flexible drinking straws. The accident was staged with the impact off center. A couple years ago, when I first saw it my comment was "Well, Duh." Hasn't changed today.

 

I usually say that conspiracy theories give far to much credit to the proposed conspirators, but in this instance it looks like they were smart enough to pick exactly the right cars.

 

I would give the the Dandy Dandeloin Pen Award for that one.

Bernie

Some have argued that it was a pretty crappy choice of a car, specifically that a reliable 60's car would have produced different results. AFAIK, the '59 Bel-Air's front frame would make it impractical in a head-on collision. As much as I hate to see gems go to waste, more crash tests with classics would be interesting.

[auburnseeker]

I pulled a couple of parts off a 61 Tbird in the mid 90's that was involved in a fresh accident with a huge tree at a high rate of speed.  The tree left a perfect imprint in the front center of the car and stopped about center of where the carburetor would have been on the motor originally.  It did have seat belts and both occupants survived the crash.  I actually pulled the carb apart which was partially broken to get the venturi assembly out  when I  accidentally dropped mine on the floor and broke it while rebuilding my carb.   The engine was part way into the passenger compartment.  Now it was a unibody car so it folded to help absorb the impact so that probably helped.  There wasn't alot left to salvage,  I think it bowed the body as well just by the way stuff looked. 

[mike6024]

 

Crashes are all too common. This one happened just last week a half block from my house. What used to be realatively quiet 2-lane highways are now carrying heavy traffic like freeways, but with no divider down the center. I use this Highway and need to make a left to go to my home. I have to sit there and wait for an opening in the oncoming traffic to make the left and always worry someone will rear-end me while I am sitting there.

 

Suspected DUI driver in head‑on Highway 12 crash

CHP investigators Tuesday were seeking witnesses to Monday’s head-on crash on Highway 12 west of Santa Rosa, which caused one driver to miscarry and critically injured three people.

Officers suspected driver Tristan Taliesin, 41, of Santa Rosa, of being under the influence of drugs and arrested him on a felony DUI charge, CHP Officer Jon Sloat said.

The 4:45 p.m. crash occurred west of Fulton Road, tying up traffic on the two-lane highway and forcing evening commuters to divert to nearby rural roads.

Taliesin’s eastbound Toyota Scion SUV drifted into the opposite lane near Merced Avenue and collided with a Toyota Camry driven by Elizabeth Ehrmann-Subia, 33, of Santa Rosa, Sloat said.

[auburnseeker]

Ok back from the morbid car crash thread to old cars for young guys.

Here is one to show you can get a decent looking Impala 2 dr hdtp under 10G 

This one has to go at $7995.  it will need an interior it's old and badly deteriorated, but you don't need a new interior to drive it.  A couple of blankets and you can have some fun.  

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/6147269378.html

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

to get the venturi assembly out  when I  accidentally dropped mine on the floor and broke it while rebuilding my carb

 

The just never did enough drop testing of those Ford carbs. I can see Consumer Reports doing a carburetor Vs. fuel injection drop test now. I bet the carb would have a bowl full of nitro.

 

[JACK M]

Hey flattop, where did you get that pic.

I swear that is my late friend Bill in the red and white fire suit.

The crash I am thinking of was about 15 years ago in Oregon.

Trying to remember the rescue outfits name, Maybe "Extreme Fire and Rescue" ? They wore yellow fire suits with red flames up the legs. Good guys to have around a race track.

When those guys were running from the fire they kept slipping on the gas wet clay.

Very scary. Happened right in front of me, thankfully I was able to avoid.

The car got hit in a way that the fuel cell broke dumping a full fuel load on the ground under and around it.

[auburnseeker]

The Venturi was actually out of the carb when I dropped it.  Those are fragile little suckers when they are out of their shell.  I remember trying to soften the blow with my foot and leg but it still hit the concrete floor with enough force to break. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[cahartley]

10 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Ok back from the morbid car crash thread to old cars for young guys.

Here is one to show you can get a decent looking Impala 2 dr hdtp under 10G 

This one has to go at $7995.  it will need an interior it's old and badly deteriorated, but you don't need a new interior to drive it.  A couple of blankets and you can have some fun.  

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/6147269378.html

 

 

 

 

 

That's a decent car at that price.......they are pretty hot right now too........but it's not for lead foots as with that automatic tranny behind the engine you can give it all the lead you want.........but it won't do any good....... 

 

[Brass is Best]

Buy the best car that you can afford. If you want real reliability and easy maintenance look for a 1928-1931 Ford Model A.

[auburnseeker]

Only problem with an A is you have to plan your routes.  In some areas you will be a problem in traffic.  I know even around here with a few side roads and especially the main (not interstate roads) you will be a road block if you can't do 60.  Even at that I've had people pile on behind me.  One reason I bought the Hudson with the tall geared rear and peppier later 6 rather than the bone stock one.  I know there is a certain amount of discomfort when you are the slow one especially on a busy road where pulling over isn't an option because the traffic count is high and as soon as you pull back out the next 5 cars will be polishing your back bumper.

I always said the rural farm area with a myriad of roads where my wife is from would be ideal for an old car.  They go everywhere with almost no traffic.  You could pretty much drive all the way to the neighboring town about 8 miles away and take an hour to get there, never hit the main road and travel back on totally different roads.  The biggest hazard are deer and some blind corners.  I wished they had a place for me to keep an old touring car out their to use for a few weeks when we go out to visit.   I would buy one and leave it there.

 

I agree with buy the best car you can afford, but some people are tight and will not spend a dime more, not realizing they are actually being foolish to not stretch their budget a tad.  I think I have with almost every vehicle, piece of equipment and even house we bought.  That little extra gets a whole lot more. 

[auburnseeker]

Today I even found a ragtop for what seems a reasonable price.  It may have some rust though so a closer inspection would be needed.  This one a 67 88 olds for $6500  OBO

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/6137753736.html

 

[padgett]

In any car I am more interested in how the floor pans and frame look. Have seen many nice looking cars from yankeeland that needed a complete set of pans.

 

BTW today's yout expects any car to have Bluetooth, handsfree phone, and an iPhone/pad/pod input. Have equipped all of mine for handsfree and aux input but Bluetooth is not that much harder.

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

In any car I am more interested in how the floor pans and frame look. Have seen many nice looking cars from yankeeland that needed a complete set of pans.

 

BTW today's yout expects any car to have Bluetooth, handsfree phone, and an iPhone/pad/pod input. Have equipped all of mine for handsfree and aux input but Bluetooth is not that much harder.

 

And I Was trying to figure out if it's worth getting the AM radio in my Hudson rebuilt.  Guess I'm out of the loop.

[victorialynn2]

57 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 

And I Was trying to figure out if it's worth getting the AM radio in my Hudson rebuilt.  Guess I'm out of the loop.

I just found a NIB 8 track player. I'd keep it and the tape deck for looks in the right cars.

They can add the Bluetooth, etc with other parts. 

[JACK M]

I think I still have my old Sony TC8  8 track recorder and a couple hundred 8 track tapes.

Haven't seen that stuff in some years and may have had the kids dump it all at one of the garage sales but I think about it on occasion. Like now.

I do remember that they sold off all of the old CB junk. I had big power in that stuff. Used to piss off the neighbors for miles around my base station.

[victorialynn2]

5 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I think I still have my old Sony TC8  8 track recorder and a couple hundred 8 track tapes.

Haven't seen that stuff in some years and may have had the kids dump it all at one of the garage sales but I think about it on occasion. Like now.

I do remember that they sold off all of the old CB junk. I had big power in that stuff. Used to piss off the neighbors for miles around my base station.

There are a couple CB's in the garage also. Dad was a trucker, so always had them. The Lincoln has a factory installed one. Lol

[JACK M]

I have one in my big pickup that I rarely turn on, but it works.

The one in my motor home quit a long time ago. Probably because the antenna gets smacked every time I pull in or out of its storage.

I have a cheap portable in my grocery getter pickup that I picked up at a garage sale but the one time I tried to use it I couldn't raise anybody.

And yes, at least one on the shelf.

I'm not a hoarder but I sure have a lot of useless stuff.

[60FlatTop]

When I was young I grew up surrounded by mind readers. "You think" and "I know what you are thinking" started every conversation. It got to a point where I could anticipate what they thought I thought and I change my thoughts so I wasn't thinking what they thought I thought. Then I realized they weren't even thinking when they thought about what I was thinking.

When I started working I figured out that most people were of the opinion that everyone thought like they did. I would get a boss that was a real nice guy and things would go very well, he thought I was a nice guy like him. I would get some rotten, incompetent scoundrel for a boss and he thought I was like him, accusations would fly. If I was young and some showed my 6 pages of recommendations for my hobby I'd laugh. I am surprised the original poster is still following. I wonder if he sits down with his friends, the way I do at dinner some nights, and say "Oh, God, you won't believe what I read on that forum today.

I have learned one thing in half a century of observation. The less money people have, the better mind readers they become. It's amazing. A nice, expensive car drives by and "They think" automatically spews from the guy leaning on his old clunker. And the detail is amazing.

 

This hobby has been changing constantly for at least 80 years now. That's why it is still alive. For every conformity there is a nonconformity, for every exclusion there is an inclusion, there is a balance of personalities that two of each would overfill an ark. Newcomers will take what they like and leave the rest behind. And the happiest, in the end, will probably be the ones whom didn't take it too seriously.

 

I like seeing what they find on their own. Like my Nephew who is into early '70's Mercury's. That is certainly something he did all on his own.