4 cylinder engine paint

[R.White]

I would be very anxious about getting the sump galvanised for the same reason that Tony has given.  The position of the oil tray is critical and would have been fitted under manufacturing conditions.  I don't think I would feel confident about getting it back in the right place.  I bought the Hammerite paint but changed my mind in favour of originality.  I am still not sure about it.

 

Ray. 

[Spinneyhill]

There are 90% and lesser (60%?) zinc paints available. I have used a bright zinc paint which is something like 60% zinc; it looks good. You can probably put a clear coat over it too.

[TonyAus]

An alternative would be to clean the galvanized surface with a phosphoric acid based solution such as Deoxit, Deoxidine etc used by automotive refinishers to remove and/or kill surface corrosion. This is usually sold by automotive paint suppliers.  Follow the cleaning with a coat of clear  to preserve the newly exposed zinc.  I've used this stuff for years with great success on steel, aluminium and zinc.  Get a litre or more - I usually pay less than $A20 for this size which lasts me more than 12 months of regular use.  Apply with coarse steel wool and wearing  rubber gloves - stings like blazes if you have minor cuts on your fingers and it smells bad.

[R.White]

1 minute ago, TonyAus said:

An alternative would be to clean the galvanized surface with a phosphoric acid based solution such as Deoxit, Deoxidine etc used by automotive refinishers to remove and/or kill surface corrosion. This is usually sold by automotive paint suppliers.  Follow the cleaning with a coat of clear  to preserve the newly exposed zinc.  I've used this stuff for years with great success on steel, aluminium and zinc.  Get a litre or more - I usually pay less than $A20 for this size which lasts me more than 12 months of regular use.  Apply with coarse steel wool and wearing  rubber gloves - stings like blazes if you have minor cuts on your fingers and it smells bad.

 

On my sump, although there is no rust at all, the galvanised surface seems to have come away in patches so it has a slightly blotchy look.  This is not particularly attractive but it is what remains of the original finish.  I have gone over it gently with some wire wool to clean it and sealed the surface with wax polish.  I don't spend all day looking at the thing so it will probably stay the way it is.  

 

Ray.

[RichBad]

Thanks for the reply.

 

The oil tray on my sump is secured in place with rivets so I don't think there will be a problem getting it back in the correct position if I do remove it ( which I may do anyway just to clean it properly).

 

However, if the galvanising removes the solder the front and rear sections of the sump (crankshaft area) appear to be fabricated seperately and soldered together so presumably they would have been done after galvanising?

 

I wanted to keep it original (just because I'm stubborn).  Has anyone had one galvanized?

 

i could try zinc electroplating (as that would work on the solder and galvanising is zinc anyway) but not sure how it would look.  Could someone share a photo of an original galvanized sump please?

 

thanks!

[Spinneyhill]

The dull, somewhat blotchy appearance is hot dip galvanised. A uniform shiny appearance is what you would get with electroplating.

[RichBad]

I pulled the oil tray out of my sump today as there was so much sludge I wanted to ensure it was all cleaned out.

 I gave a galvanizer a call and he said aside from the solder, the high temperatures could distort the pan.  I assume that as it was galvanised originally this should be unlikely but wanted to check with anyone who has done it.  Has anyone had theirs re galvanized and did it work out OK?

[Spinneyhill]

What about electroplated zinc? Maybe that was how it was done originally?

[RichBad]

I was thinking of that as a backup but it was definitely galvanized originally - it's clear to see on the inside of the sump - large blotches and it's also quite a thick coating.

[nearchoclatetown]

Here in the US we have galvanized paint in spray cans. It works pretty well and looks pretty good to replicate hot dipped. Check an industrial supply that handles paint. At work when we repaired { welded} galvanized railing we used the spray cans for touchup. 

[RichBad]

Thanks, I did buy some of the galvanized spray but haven't tried it yet. Perhaps if it looks like the original that may be the best option. I really wanted to keep the original finish and I have someone local who can do it but don't want to risk trashing the pan if the heat does distort it.

[MikeC5]

The zinc on the surface (from dipping or electroplating) acts as an anode in the electrochemical sense where you have two different metals in contact in an electrolyte; salty water (essentially a battery).  The anode, loses electrons which means it corrodes preferentially to the steel underneath.  Even if scratched off in a local area, the zinc will still protect the exposed steel due to what is called the favorable area ratio effect.  It means there is a lot more zinc surface area than exposed steel area so the zinc still corrodes preferentially.  Unfortunately, given enough time and exposure most of the zinc will corrode away leaving the steel unprotected and rust begins.

Edited September 24, 2017 by MikeC5 (see edit history)

[MikeC5]

The zinc on the surface (from dipping or electroplating) acts as an anode in the electrochemical sense where you have two different metals in contact in an electrolyte; salty water (essentially a battery).  The anode, loses electrons which means it corrodes preferentially to the steel underneath.  Even if scratched off in a local area, the zinc will still protect the exposed steel due to what is called the favorable area ratio effect.  It means there is a lot more zinc surface area that exposed steel area so the zinc still corrodes preferentially.  Unfortunately, given enough time and exposure the zinc will eventually corrode away leaving the steel unprotected and rust begins.

Edited September 24, 2017 by MikeC5 (see edit history)

[RichBad]

OK, I decided to go for it and get my sump hot dip Galvanized and it came up pretty good

and was easier than I thought it would be.

 

I first removed the inner oil tray that was riveted in as it wasn’t plated originally and I didn’t want it to distort (also needed it out to clean out the sludge).

 

The front flange, rear flange/inserts, the rear drain pipe and drain plug insert were all soldered however, after removing all the solder only the rear drain tube could be removed.  The drain plug insert was swaged in (after galvanising) with solder to seal.  The front flange looks like it was spot welded (probably before plating) with the solder to seal/fill the gaps.  The rear flanges looked like they were also spot welded but possibly after the plating (as they didn’t look like they were plated originally).  I was planning on re-sealing the flanges with solder but the galvanising seems to have filled/sealed the joints very well.

 

front flange

 

rear flange/insert 

 

 

[R.White]

What year is your car?  That sump looks a bit later than my' 26.  You also have the benefit of a drain hole.

 

 Well done for doing it properly; most of us just settle for a paint job!

 

Ray.

[RichBad]

5 minutes ago, R.White said:

What year is your car?  That sump looks a bit later than my' 26.  You also have the benefit of a drain hole.

 

 Well done for doing it properly; most of us just settle for a paint job!

 

Ray.

Thanks! 1927 series 129.  Not having a drain hole sounds like fun!

[R.White]

Yes, there are a few areas where the older DB cars  leave a little  to be desired.  The procedure on my car is to undo one of the filter securing screws and allow the oil to drain from the bolt hole!  I usually get fed up waiting and undo the other one as well - and by loosening the compression fitting and removing the external pipe I can gain access to the gauze filter.  This is the quickest way to drain the oil.  

 

One difference between the 5 bearing  "C" engine and the earlier "B" engine is the oil supply to the bearings.  On my car,  in addition to an external oil pipe from the sump to the pump there is a copper pipe that takes oil from the pump around the outside of the sump to a pressure relief valve near the firewall.  The oil is then dispensed through the internal rail and finishes towards the front of the engine.  Probably not the cleverest design.

 

Ray.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by R.White (see edit history)

[Wheelmang]

On 5/5/2017 at 8:53 PM, Phil 32DL6 said:

Also, I've heard it said that the original engine color used was a more neutral, "truer" gray, and that the greenish tinge we see on original cars today is a result of color shift due to aging. Since people assume that the greenish tinge was what the original color was like, that's what's being matched today on repaint jobs.

 

I haven't verified that as fact, and I'm wondering if anyone else has reliable info to pass on?

 

Here's what I used after doing a complete valve job a few years ago.

I had to drop the oil pan on my 26 DB 4 cyl when I first got it. The oil pan and flywheel cover where approximately the same color you have pictured here. That is what I repainted them after cleaning and blasting. My block and head are black. I do not think the engine or pan have ever been out of this car. Also the water pump currently in rebuild stage was grey underneath a poor coat of black and dirt. 

[R.White]

I would think the original engine colour would have been a sort of green/grey like in this video:

 

 

[Wheelmang]

On 5/5/2017 at 8:53 PM, Phil 32DL6 said:

Also, I've heard it said that the original engine color used was a more neutral, "truer" gray, and that the greenish tinge we see on original cars today is a result of color shift due to aging. Since people assume that the greenish tinge was what the original color was like, that's what's being matched today on repaint jobs.

 

I haven't verified that as fact, and I'm wondering if anyone else has reliable info to pass on?

 

Here's what I used after doing a complete valve job a few years ago.

I had to drop the oil pan on my 26 DB 4 cyl when I first got it. The oil pan and flywheel cover where approximately the same color you have pictured here. That is what I repainted them after cleaning and blasting. My block and head are black. I do not think the engine or pan have ever been out of this car. Also the water pump currently in rebuild stage was grey underneath a poor coat of black and dirt. 

Well - after posting this my curiosity led me to  the engine. Especially after finding the grey under the black on my water pump. A little de-greaser and some 220 sand paper uncovered under the black that I previously spoke the green seen in R White's video post. Very interesting!

[R.White]

When it comes to detailing I was at first not sure quite how to deal with the water pump.  The pump on the '26  (2 unit 6 volt) cars is a unique casting and unlike earlier models (video) which I understand are painted black, is treated to the same green as the engine.  The oil pan is left galvanised and the flywheel cover and the head are both green.  Interestingly, it is more a green/grey and I have found it to be a devil of a job to replicate.  Eventually, after much experimentation, I mixed duck egg with a little lime green,  grey and white.

 

Ray.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1936 Viper]

My 1936 D2 TS appears to have original engine paint kind of dark almost hunter green, block, pan, tranny all the same color.  My idea is to use same color for repaint.

[R.White]

1 hour ago, 1936 Viper said:

My 1936 D2 TS appears to have original engine paint kind of dark almost hunter green, block, pan, tranny all the same color.  My idea is to use same color for repaint.

 

My opinion (for what it's worth) is that you should follow your instincts.  From what you say the colour looks like it could well be original so unless someone can prove anything to the contrary I would be inclined to stick with it.  

 

 

Ray.

[Spinneyhill]

IMO the original paint on these engines changes colour over time with exposure to petroleum product fumes and heat, and perhaps a little UV light. So it is anybody's guess what the colour really was. So go with what you see!

[RichBad]

For anyone attempting to re-galvanise their sump I’ve had mine done and just finished re-assembling it.  The inner oil plate had to be removed for plating (as it wasn’t plated originally) and is riveted in place and the rivers soldered to prevent leaks.  I wasn’t looking forward to it as I thought that soldering the rivers to the galvanising would be difficult.  Turned out to be quite easy, just had to make sure it was all clean and surfaces were ‘tinned’ prior to assembly.

 

Rear tube re fitted and inner tray ready to fit.

tray rivited in place

Rivets soldered to seal heads

 

[R.White]

Nice work.  Should last forever.?

 

Ray.