4 cylinder engine paint

[R.White]

Could someone please tell me what colour the pan should be on my '26 4 cylinder engine?  I have the light duck egg green engine paint for the block but I am not sure if the pan should also be that colour or perhaps black?

 

 If it is black, would it be gloss or matt?

 

thanks,

Ray.

[jan arnett (2)]

My 23 was galvanized.

 

[Spinneyhill]

If it was painted the same way the Dodge 8 was painted, the entire engine was painted once assembled, all the same colour. This includes the head, block, sump, valve gear covers, manifolds, bell housing, oil filler pipe, water outlet on top of head and water pump (including the top of the shaft where paint could reach).

[R.White]

The pan is currently unpainted galvanised and I had considered leaving it, but I have my doubts that Dodge Brothers would have left it like that.  I could of course be wrong.

 

I have been thinking of painting the pan in the same "duck egg" green because I can't imagine Dodge Brothers going to the trouble of painting the pan a different colour.  Given the frantic production process why would they bother?  

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Ray.

[Bob Zetnick]

My '24 oil pan is painted same color as engine, but not sure that was original.

 

[MikeC5]

I would also guess it was painted after most of assembly and so same as block...

[R.White]

Thanks Guys.  I think it will look O.K. painted the same all over.

 

There is quite a contrast with the black painted items and I am not sure about a matt finish for them - but lets get this show on the road! 

 

Ray.

[26Willys]

As far as I know the pan was left bare.

[R.White]

7 minutes ago, 26Willys said:

As far as I know the pan was left bare.

 

 

Thanks.  I wonder if there is any way of researching this point?

 

Ray.

[Phil 32DL6]

Also, I've heard it said that the original engine color used was a more neutral, "truer" gray, and that the greenish tinge we see on original cars today is a result of color shift due to aging. Since people assume that the greenish tinge was what the original color was like, that's what's being matched today on repaint jobs.

 

I haven't verified that as fact, and I'm wondering if anyone else has reliable info to pass on?

 

Here's what I used after doing a complete valve job a few years ago.

[JayG]

I believe the pans were left Galvanized.  I'm painting mine to look galvanized so it looks freshened up.

[R.White]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

It would seem that this has become a matter of personal choice with everyone doing what they feel best suits their car and that is probably how it should be.  I will have to bite the bullet and make a decision.

 

It's my party and I'll cry if I want to!  

 

 

 

 

[trimacar]

My '27 has a galvanized pan.  As to color of the block, had an interesting discussion with a Mopar affectionado, and his opinion, after looking at blocks on a lot of cars over a lot of years, is that whatever color was on sale to Dodge and was dumped in the "engine paint" tank, then that's the color that day's production run had ...... thus a lot of color differences, and no real agreement on "true color".....

[R.White]

That's probably how it was back then, trimcar.  What I have done (yesterday and today) is finish the block in a pale shade of green heat resistant engine paint called called "Duck egg".

 

Having removed the old blue paint (or what remained of it) I have left the pan galvanised.  I think I will leave it plain.  My reasoning is that galvanising eliminates the need for paint.

 

Ray.

[Spinneyhill]

The Dodge 8 colour recommendation is Chev blue from Wally Hirsch or The Filling Station. It is a blue grey, fairly dark.

 

My engine has three colours. The under colour may be original and has a greeny tinge. A more blue grey covers most of it (a rebuild no doubt) and I painted the head a lighter grey which has darkened quite a lot in the 20 years since I painted it. I have recently painted the overhauled water pump to match the Chev blue and it is pretty close to the base greeny grey. In my opinion, the engine colour is guess work to some degree because of the effects of aging = UV, hot-cold cycles and especially oil etc. impregnation.

 

I am very surprised the sump could have been galvanised. This was a low cost car. I would expect a quick spray paint with the rest of the engine would be cheaper by far. In addition, almost every nut and bolt and screw on my Eight is cadmium plated, not zinc. Others were Parkerised. So a galvanised sump seems unlikely to me.

[R.White]

That is interesting Spinneyhill.  My original thoughts were along those lines.  We are assuming, of course, that the engine was painted following assembly.  I know from my own experience that oil gets splashed about during assembly and the block has to be thoroughly cleaned before painting.  Is it possible the blocks were all painted prior to being built up?  It would save time cleaning all the assembled engines prior to painting wouldn't it?

[robert b]

Ray all the engines that i have in original state were galvanized , some later engine rebuilds have been painted but I do not thing that is original

[R.White]

1 minute ago, robert b said:

Ray all the engines that i have in original state were galvanized , some later engine rebuilds have been painted but I do not thing that is original

 

That is very helpful Robert.  Saves me a paint job!  

 

Actually, I am sure metal is galvanised so that it doesn't need further attention.  In fact, paint does not adhere too well to galvanised surfaces. 

 

Thanks

 

Ray.

[vintchry]

Back in the late 60's at the Old Car Festival in Dearborn my dad took his nice unrestored 25 DB Type B Business Sedan. Elmer Neeb was an old timer that had worked at Dodge Main and various dealers over the time and when he looked at the engine (the strange green color) his immediate comment was how correct the color was. So I will go with Elmer's opinion as he saw them new and in process. Also the pans on a lot of the slow 4's were galvanized and not painted. But I have learned along time ago to not set cast in stone that this was the only way they were done. Another friend that was chief engineer of Dodge Truck said that engine color was never an engineering code, and as such what was in the vat was the color of the day! Rob

[R.White]

Thanks Bob.  Shame no one taped Elmer Neeb back then.  He must have been an interesting guy to listen to.  I am happy that galvanised is the way to go with the "duck egg" green.

 

Not that it amounts to a hill of beans but I keep some poultry and I have never seen a green duck egg yet!

 

Ray.

[oily rag]

I worked on an dirty original un restored 1925, The engine paint looked like instructional green from the syco ward, the pan had some paint on it.

[R.White]

6 minutes ago, oily rag said:

I worked on an dirty original un restored 1925, The engine paint looked like instructional green from the syco ward, the pan had some paint on it.

 

...just to muddy the waters a little...haha.   Hope you didn't spend too much time in there...

Edited May 7, 2017 by R.White (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Galvanising will last for a few years without paint but will eventually corrode away, esp. if you are on salted roads or near the sea or a geothermal area or live under acid rainwater. To paint it, you need a primer designed for galvanised steel, which I believe is an etch primer. That primer is also useful for other things: I used it to prime PVC pipe then painted it to match the water tank. In the past, most of our house roofs were galvanised steel ("corrugated iron") and painted.

 

I have learnt something about Dodge Brothers quality today! Galvanised sump! Was the inside galvanised too and if so, how much was left? I would expect it to be perhaps terne or tin plated rather than galvanised but then what do I know?

[oily rag]

12 minutes ago, R.White said:

 

...just to muddy the waters a little...haha.   Hope you didn't spend too much time in there...

Nope, but I have been working on old cars since the 1960s

[R.White]

34 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Galvanising will last for a few years without paint but will eventually corrode away, esp. if you are on salted roads or near the sea or a geothermal area or live under acid rainwater. To paint it, you need a primer designed for galvanised steel, which I believe is an etch primer. That primer is also useful for other things: I used it to prime PVC pipe then painted it to match the water tank. In the past, most of our house roofs were galvanised steel ("corrugated iron") and painted.

 

I have learnt something about Dodge Brothers quality today! Galvanised sump! Was the inside galvanised too and if so, how much was left? I would expect it to be perhaps terne or tin plated rather than galvanised but then what do I know?

 

 

My oil pan is galvanised all over.  The inside is like new.  It had been painted by a previous owner but there is no evidence of an etch primer - which would account for why much of the paint has come off.  What little remained came off very easily.  If at some future date I decide to paint the pan I have a quantity of etch primer that I use when painting aluminium.

 

I didn't know about acid or salt affecting galvanising.  That's something I have learned! 

 

Ray.

Edited May 7, 2017 by R.White (see edit history)

[R.White]

33 minutes ago, oily rag said:

Nope, but I have been working on old cars since the 1960s

 

I think you know I was pulling your leg, Oily Rag.  I actually appreciate your contribution and like you I have been working on old cars since the 1960s because my Dad ran an independent  garage (repair shop).  This had advantages and disadvantages.  On the one hand I gained experience but on the other if I had a problem Dad would sort it out for me.  As a result I find that I have to rely on you guys now my Dad is sadly no longer with us.  I have learned a lot from this forum.  It's great.

 

Ray. 

[Spinneyhill]

Galvanising is a sacrificial anode. It is zinc. These days sheet steel is coated with zinc-alume, a mix of Zn and Al. Galvanising is hot dipped, not electroplated. Zinc and Aluminium are almost at the top of the galvanic series, which is why they are used this way. Acid will attack them readily, as will ethanol. Galvanising is dull and has large "chip" sizes visible whereas electroplated zinc is shiny and usually thinner than galvanising. Electroplated zinc is not meant for outdoors use for long.

[R.White]

That's very educational. Spinneyhill.

 

For some reason I would have expected the pan to have been made from aluminium. 

[MikeC5]

I checked mine yesterday and it does not appear to have ever been painted (and looks to be galvanized).  I believe aluminum was still relatively expensive compared to steel (and zinc) in the 20s.  Didn't the first 2-3 years of Dodge have aluminum pans?

[Pete K.]

My '25 and an old spare engine I have are both galvanized pans.  No sign of any paint.

[ch1929]

My 23 no paint, galvanized.

[R.White]

Looks to me like a general agreement. Galvanised.

[Spinneyhill]

Were they out-sourced and galvanised in case they weren't used for a while? or maybe as protection from acidic conditions inside due to the oil they had back then?

 

I wonder how much zinc has been lost on the inside over the years from acidic conditions, esp. just above the static oil level where there could be a little condensation at times.

[R.White]

56 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Were they out-sourced and galvanised in case they weren't used for a while? or maybe as protection from acidic conditions inside due to the oil they had back then?

 

I wonder how much zinc has been lost on the inside over the years from acidic conditions, esp. just above the static oil level where there could be a little condensation at times.

 

On my pan the external galvanising has all but worn off but inside it is bright and shiny like new.

Edited May 9, 2017 by R.White (see edit history)

[Wheelmang]

Well I guess I screwed up. I had to drop the pan in order to put the oil level indicator in position. I figured as long as it was down it would be a good time to repaint it. It was a shade of gray that closely matched a can of Duplicolor at O'Rielly's. Does that mean it is no longer OE. It was gray along with the flywheel cover. Engine appears to VERY dark green or possibly black. 

[R.White]

First thing is you have not "screwed up". If the galvanised finish on your car is anything like mine it is so abraded it has lost all the nice "flake" texture and frankly looks dreadful.  I have a mind to paint mine with a paint that can go somewhere towards replicating the original finish but I am well aware that this is only a second best option. Your flywheel cover would probably have been galvanised to match the pan but mine is a single casting that had been painted block colour.  I don't know what mine would have been originally but it looks good green engine  colour.

 

The engine on my car had been painted dark blue along with other parts including the pedals but I doubt that would have been original even though little is known about export models.  I have decided to try and replicate the original colour which I can best describe as "sage green".

The problem is finding an engine paint (high temp) the right shade.  I believe Myers and Romar do sell engine paint but I haven't seen any so I can't comment.  I have gone with duck egg mixed with a little lime green and a touch of black.  Originally the bolt on distributor housing would have been engine colour but the water pump on some earlier cars is black.  As my water pump casting is part of the  distributor housing (unique to the coil ignition cars I think) and there are traces of green paint surviving, I have gone with the sage green colour for it.

 

Essentially, it is your car and you should finish it as you think fit... and feel good about it!   

 

Ray.

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

From what I have read on these fora, "engine paint" is not really necessary. The engine gets to less than 100 °C which is not a problem for a good paint. The manifolds are another matter.

[R.White]

1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said:

From what I have read on these fora, "engine paint" is not really necessary. The engine gets to less than 100 °C which is not a problem for a good paint. The manifolds are another matter.

 

Thank you Spinneyhill.  I hadn't thought of that!  I thought 200 c was more the figure.  My Dad used to say that Nylock nuts were good for 250 deg. so were O.K. inside an engine which seldom exceeded 200.  Thinking about it, our old engines do not have a pressurised coolant system so must run at under 100deg if they are not to boil.     

 

 

[RichBad]

Has anyone out their had their sump re-galvanized?  I wanted to get mine redone but it looks like their are parts of the sump that are soldered and wasn't sure if they could be replated 

[TonyAus]

Galvanizing is a hot process involving a dip in molten zinc.  This will melt the solder holding the oil tray.  I took the cheat's way out and painted my sump with wheel silver - a metallic colour used on many modern steel wheels.  It looks neat and not out of place.