POR15 Gas Tank Sealant Process

[drtidmore]

I finally had an entire day to devote to the POR15 Gas Tank Sealant kit.  I say a whole day as the process is at the very least 4-5 hours long and you should NOT stop once you start.  While the kit I ordered was intended for treating a corroded tank, including those with small pin hole leaks, I chose to start with a new Dorman tank.  The first part of the treatment is a degreaser agent that you mix 50/50 with very warm water.  The instructions state to allow it to set for 20 minutes on each plane of the tank (i.e. 4 sides, top and bottom), re-coating all the surfaces by rotating the tank in all directions between the sitting periods.  I sealed up all the openings with duct tape.  The degreaser does attack the duct tape adhesive but it lasted long enough to allow me to do the degreasing.  You can see how this adds up to about 1.5-2 hours all by itself.  If you were doing this on an existing tank you would repeat the degreaser a second time.  The kit includes a second degreaser treatment, but since my tank was shiny and new I chose to only go with a single degreasing cycle.  After degreasing, you rinse out the tank thoroughly with water and move on to the metal prep, which is an etchant and the instructions warn to not leave it in the tank more than 2 hours total.  As with the degreaser, I taped up all the openings with duct tape.  The metal prep does not seem to be as aggressive against the duct tape adhesive.  After the metal prep the interior of the tank had transformed from a shiny very smooth surface to a flat grey color and slightly rough to the touch.  I emptied the Metal Prep into a bucket and then per the instructions did a thorough rinse with water several times and then drained all the water out via the top opening.  I then inserted a 1875 watt hair drier that just happened to nicely snug against the top opening and ran it until the entire tank was a fairly hot (not just warm) to the touch so as to drive off ALL the water which is critical to the last step.  Then, after ensuring that the POR15 was mixed well, I poured the quart can into the tank and then sealed up all the openings once again and rotated the tank as well as allowing it to sit for periods on all planes to allow the POR15 to soak into the seams and coat all surfaces.  It did this for a good hour before untaping and turning it top side down to allow the excess to drain and while some will pool and cure inside the tank that will be on the top surface of the installed tank where the extra protection will be a good thing.  I found that out of the quart of POR15, about 1/2 cup initially drained out.  I left the tank turned top side down over a 5 gallon bucket so as to allow the POR15 to continue to drain and set up.  The POR15 must cure for 4 days before installing, but I may let it cure longer.  This, along with the use of a enzyme based ethanol treatment and a biocide, should ensure my new tank will remain pristine for many, many years. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

THIS VIDEO is an excellent representation of what you did- no easy task.

[DAVES89]

Jake I think you missed his other post where he had a tank coating failure with his original tank. That is why he is going to these great lengths to ensure no further issues.

[89RedDarkGrey]

I apologize to you. I am hot-headed and rude sometimes.

 

I stick up for many here- while I get zero likes, openly ignored, bullied, scrutinized, called various rude names, other Members are told to ignore me- and then I just received a permanent "warning point" for my rude and "abusive" post.

 

I again apologize for upsetting you. My rudeness is being removed by me- as it contributes nothing to the discussion.

[DAVES89]

89RDG while your willingness to help is appreciated you may want to take a look at what you post as if you were on the recieving end. Many times I start typing and then go back and read it before sending it and say "Whoa Kemo Sabe, you'll surely p*** someone off. Better reload and fire again".

[drtidmore]

5 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

 the uncertainty of knowing how this POR-15 experiment might or might now turn out,

 

The treatment I have used is specifically for vehicle gasoline tanks to render the interior impervious to ethanol, methanol, gasoline and all the additives that get included in what comes out the pump.  As to whether the coating is standard POR15 or a special formulation, only POR15 has that data, but the mixture comes as a ONE part solution (i.e. no mixing) and the can specifically indicates that it is a gas tank sealant. It is also much thinner than standard POR15.   What caused my original gas tank to corrode from the inside is still an unresolved question. As the original owner, I have all the provenance of the car and the gas that has been run thru it.  There is ZERO corrosion on the tank outside, so whatever happened, occurred due to the gas and most likely due to ethanol and its love for moisture.  There is also a least a working hypothesis that a bacteria that thrives in the ethanol captured water, that loves to corrode metal, may be the culprit.  Bacteria is a common issue in diesel tanks which also suffer from water contamination.  Starting with a new Dorman tank made more sense than starting with my existing tank or an old, potentially corroded salvaged tank from the Reatta era.  The gas tanks in the Reatta were engineered in an era well before anyone dreamed of a water loving additive being added into the mix and I am not sure that I truly trust even "modern" tanks as being viable long term with the ethanol gas for which there is no escaping.  I also will be running an EPA approved, gasoline biocide along with an ethanol stabilizer.  

[89RedDarkGrey]

I guess plastic fuel tanks are the future for all cars soon.

 

ARTICLE

[drtidmore]

5 minutes ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

I guess plastic fuel tanks are the future for all cars soon.

 

ARTICLE

My C5 Vette has a plastic gas tank, so there is a fairly long history of success with such.  

[89RedDarkGrey]

Same site- we're complaining about ethanol- while they're praising it's "beneficial properties".

 

ARTICLE

[drtidmore]

10 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

Same site- we're complaining about ethanol- while they're praising it's "beneficial properties".

What we are bemoaning is that the ethanol when mixed into the tank of gas exposes the entire system to the detrimental effects of direct ethanol exposure (i.e. rubber deterioration) as well as the corrosive effects of the moisture it attracts.  The article points out that IF ethanol is used in a system where it is direct injected into the engine, there are some major advantages across the board.  Such a system would have a totally separate ethanol storage, pumping and delivery system so it could be made to withstand the rigors of ethanol exposure.  But back at the ranch, our older classic vehicles that were never designed to allow a moisture attracting additive in the gas are suffering all the ill effects not to mention the poorer gas mileage.  

[Ronnie]

39 minutes ago, drtidmore said:

But back at the ranch, our older classic vehicles that were never designed to allow a moisture attracting additive in the gas are suffering all the ill effects not to mention the poorer gas mileage.

 

I agree that pure gas would be best for our cars but I wonder if the ethanol attracting moisture is as bad as it seems at first glance. The only way a gas/ethanol mixture in the car's gas tank could cause a moisture problem would be by it pulling moisture out of the air in the tank. If you keep the tank full when you store your car there is no air to pull the moisture from so moisture in the gas shouldn't be a problem. If you did get some water in your gas from the gas station wouldn't it be better to have some alcohol in the gas to keep the water mixed with the fuel instead of the water separating and settling to the bottom of the fuel tank?

 

When the car is being driven ethanol in the gas shouldn't be a problem with our fuel injected cars because it helps keep any moisture mixed with the gas and circulating through the fuel system by the pump instead of it settling to the bottom of the tank.

 

In the old days it was common practice to pour a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the gas tank if you suspected you had water in your gas. The alcohol would absorb the water allowing it to be burned up in the engine rather than the water settling to the bottom of the tank where it would be picked up causing the engine to miss sporadically. When you add a bottle of "Heat" or an equivalent additive you are basically adding alcohol to absorb any water you might have in the tank.

 

You mentioned you had a coffee ground type stuff at the bottom of your old tank. Was is actually all flakes of rust or could it have been a result of the additives you used that have built up over time? Was the inside of the tank actually covered with flaky rust? This is a long thread and I've not went back and read it thoroughly. Everything I've brought up might have already been hashed out. If so I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

[drtidmore]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

You mentioned you had a coffee ground type stuff at the bottom of your old tank. Was is actually all flakes of rust or could it have been a result of the additives you used that have built up over time? Was the inside of the tank actually covered with flaky rust? This is a long thread and I've not went back and read it thoroughly. Everything I've brought up might have already been hashed out. If so I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

Ronnie, 

There is no doubt it was rusty corrosion.  The pump sock, while not clogged, was stained rust red from being in contact with it.  It was also flaky and not at all a sludge or build up.  Once removed, washing it in some fresh gas, then soapy water, then alcohol did nothing to dissolve it nor did any discoloration result.  It was rust!  As to clear up any misperception, my tank is not, nor has it ever leaked.  I found the problem by happenstance of replacing the fuel pump twice in the last 3.5 years in which I found the same flaky, dark rusty buildup in the sump area of the tank.  I cleaned the tank out 3.5 years ago and then when I had to replace the pump due to it intermittently failing recently, I found the same type of buildup.  Not sure why there seems to be such resistance as to what I found and what it might be.  Maybe mine is the ONLY Reatta gas tank ever installed at the factory to do this, but the fact remains, mine corroded from the inside with NO exterior rust or corrosion.

FYI, as for additives, I ran straight gasoline or gasoline/ethanol from the day it rolled off the dealer floor until 3.5 years ago when I first discovered the problem I started using the Lucus Ethanol Treatment in hopes of retarding the further degradation of the tank interior. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I'm not being resistive at all. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was just throwing out what little I know about alcohol in gas from past experience. I was curious about the consistency of the coffee grounds. I never use a stabilizer additive nor do I keep my tank full in the winter when I only drive my car occasionally. I wouldn't be surprised at all if my tank was full of rust that is yet to be discovered.

[drtidmore]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'm not being resistive at all. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was just throwing out what little I know about alcohol in gas from past experience. I was curious about the consistency of the coffee grounds. I never use a stabilizer additive nor do I keep my tank full in the winter when I only drive my car occasionally. I wouldn't be surprised at all if my tank was full of rust that is yet to be discovered.

Ronnie,

Sorry if I came across a bit miffed.  I have to admit, I was as shocked as anyone as to what I found recently.  The corrosion I found 3.5 years ago, I wrote off as more of less normal given the number of years the tank had been in use.  The fact that I cleaned it out as much as possible only to have a very significant amount of additional corrosion present only a few years later was the reason for concern and the root of my decisions.  There is no way to know how widespread the problem may or may not be at this point.  Barney's post of what he encountered with a friend's Reatta gas tank corrosion says that mine is not totally isolated.  

 

FYI, I replaced the fuel gauge sender unit about 7 years ago and it shows no signs of corrosion.  I also did NOT treat it with the POR15 gas tank treatment so as to not risk clogging any of the lines

[Ronnie]

No offense taken. I should have explained the reasons behind my previous post to avoid confusion. If you had said the coffee grounds were something other than rust I was going to suggest the material might be from deterioration of the inside of rubber fuel lines. That was a huge problem in older 2 cycle boat motors when ethanol was first added to gasoline. The tiny pieces of rubber would clog the main jets in the carburetor resulting in a lean mixture which starves a 2 cycle engine for oil that lubricates the cylinder and pistons - as well as starving it for gas. I had a Evinrude 140 hp engine ruined for that very reason. Hopefully the rubber hoses on our Reattas are more resistant to ethanol.

[DAVES89]

My opinion is that David's situation is an exception to the rule. I believe that the Reatta tanks were treated at the factory and that there was a "void" in the treatment in David's tank allowing the corrosion to start. If this was a situation where all the tanks were rusting we would have a much larger pool of owners coming here and talking about this.

 Just the lack of interest on this post alone tells me it is not a common failure.

[2seater]

I have wondered about this too. Everyone's Reattas' are about the same age, but at the same time, fuel pump replacement doesn't occur with great regularity, so what is inside may be unknown to many of us. There is some science I have seen that mentions one or more of the elements in the terne coating that may be leached out by alcohols, primarily methanol and to a lesser extent, ethanol. The formula for terne coating itself has apparently changed over time due to concerns about some elements, primarily lead.

 

From a performance standpoint, alcohols are great fuels, but it certainly comes at a price. High octane and the ability to burn a lot of it is good for the racer, but hurts the average consumer.  It doesn't vaporize well in cold weather, so you must have some sort of hybrid fuel to get the engine to start in the winter. I know it is something I will be watching for. I have doctored my fuel occasionally over the years, with acetone, xylene, toluene and race fuel, primarily for knock resistance, so I have treated my system as badly as anyone

[89RedDarkGrey]

3 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

 Just the lack of interest on this post alone tells me it is not a common failure

 

The only reason I'm not doing it right now- is lack of extra funds

Since buying mine in 2011- it came with a botched fiberglass tape patch near the top that leaks, and 1/4 of the half-seam leaks, so I can't put over 1/2 a tank in at a time.

 

It's just one thing on my list for this car- to keep me busy, honest- and poor

 

It will be a new treated tank, Bosch turbine pump, sending unit, nylon lines, and relocated filter when the fuel system is completed.