Why do sellers do that?

[George Smolinski]

Per a suggestion in a Packard ad in another forum, I'm starting a thread on a couple things that sellers do & I don't understand why.

Why do they list a car here or anywhere with no price? I think the biggest culprits are dealers. Maybe they figure once you contact them, their excellent salesman skills will convince you that their car is not overpriced & is just the car you need. Along those lines, another term I see in ads in lieu of price is "inquire." This usually involves a very nice looking vehicle with lots of glossy photos. "Inquire" translated means my car is so special & I am so self important that I don't want to deal with riff raff. So if you call me to "inquire" I can immediately tell if you have the funds to purchase (you don't buy a fine automobile, you purchase it) my beautiful classic. Note to sellers: Get over yourself & your fine automobile. If a person doesn't buy from you, it's probably because there's a thousand other dealers & sellers that have something for sale that is just as nice and possibly even lower in price.

Why do I see ads here & other places that state: "lost storage, need to sell", "thinning the herd", "reducing my collection", and then further in the ad you read willing to trade? It could mean a few things like: I'm tired of looking at this POS, I was going to do a few things to it, but my knowledge of these is poor so I'll dump it, I really bought it to flip but I'm not going to put that in the ad.

When I see ads like that, I think one of two things. One is the seller is not being totally truthful, possibly even lying about his reason for selling, and two, if that's my first thought then I'll lowball him & maybe get what looks like a decent car at a very good price. I figure his not being truthful about selling reason gives me carte blanche to insult him with a lowball offer.

[R Walling]

 I never respond to an ad that does not list the price.

 

 I feel that the seller either wants to con you into buying it or embarrass you for not having enough money to pay for it.

 

 If the price in the ad is right, only then, will I call. Why waste both of our times?

[padgett]

Personally, I avoid dealing with dealers unless I am buying a new car and have no choice. OTOH can understand an enthusiast/collector "thinning" or more likely moving on. My cars fall into four categories: those I am attached to,  those I would like to keep, those I am not sure about, and those I am not sure why I bought in the first place. This is particularly true if my rule about "no more cars than garage spaces" is violated. Today if I buy a car, something has to go but since I now have a retractible suspect am complete for a while.

 

One thing I have found about dealers: the same car is often listed many places and if one has no price, another may. Second, given a VIN, you can find out a lot about a car, mostly for free. Everything from a broadcast sheet to a complete history of the car to the current title status. True, the older the car, the harder it is but back into the '50s it is all there if you know where to look.

 

The key to buying any car is research so that you know exactly what you are looking for/at.

 

As for the adv't with lotsa photos, I tend to look for what is not there: like a good shot of the driver's seat or any of the undercarriage (have sold cars before on pictures of the underside).

 

To me the way to sell a car is to make it sound worse in the adv't than it really is. That way potential buyers are pleasantly surprised when they see it (people who will buy a car without seeing it or even just having a friend take a look astound me but guess "there's one born..." Suspect these are the targets the dealers you refer to about are looking for and not other predators.

 

 

[F&J]

3 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

another term I see in ads in lieu of price is "inquire."

 

30 to 40 years ago, the comment that accompanied that "inquire", was:  "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"

 

Translation: "it is WAY overpriced, and we don't want to be laughed at"..."we are looking for stupid-rich buyers".

 

I had to laugh when I saw that old "you can't afford it" comment, like "we don't deal with commoners".  My limited experience of knowing a few very wealthy people is, they sure did not get wealthy by overpaying for anything......they are often even more cautious than the underfunded blue collar person. 

[JV Puleo]

I've always interpreted "inquire" as "we'll size you up to see how much we can stick you for." The endless search for someone with more money than brains is a fantasy, but it's one that a huge number of people indulge in. Just look at the "buy it now" prices on some terribly common (but always described as "rare") items on ebay. Did anyone junk an early teens Cadillac and not save the lights?

 

It's pretty much the same everywhere. And, like F&F, the handful of really wealthy people I know are never flamboyant spenders. they acquired their money through prudence and good judgement - not something the seller of an overpriced muscle car is looking for.

[60FlatTop]

I am not a car salesman, but I have sold a lot of cars. And been a buyer. Imagine, some professional car salesmen have never bought a car it their whole life, always drove a demo. They can't anticipate the next question, "How much?" It's kind of like the professional truck driver who has to get three feet from you bumper before he changes lanes.

 

I always display my price when I sell. It is a level of screening for me. I know that some people, whether genetically or culturally, have to have the price lowered. I always add $200 for that, but don't give it freely. If a person asks for a lower price I ask for something in exchange, like swap out the new battery with a used one, trade good tires for a lesser set. That usually works. "Those people" want a reduction, but don't want to give anything. Almost political.

 

For the professional, the sale has two components. There is the presentation which attracts the buyer. Then there is the justification of the price, which, independently confirms the value in your mind. A salesman wants to handle those separately, not mix them together. And notice I didn't write negotiation. It's justify.

 

My rebuttal, if my generous trade off isn't enough is "Maybe you should buy the other one." When the buyer says there isn't one I am generally unsympathetic.

 

I have been directly involved in this since I was 11 years old and was selling cars on the lot to adults at age 13. I only did it as a day job for a few months when I was around 50 to try it. I'll stick with discretionary hobby spenders for sport. There are easier ways to make a living.

 

If you want some fun videos Google Steve Richards on YouTube. They are great.

[Joe in Canada]

Look at some of the major auction houses that list estimate selling price. But then on the real high end cars at times they will say inquire.

[60FlatTop]

13 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

someone with more money than brains is a fantasy

 

I just got my annual insurance bill for 5 old cars. Fantasy, huh.

Bernie

[JACK M]

George,

The swap thing is part of the disease.

Everybody knows that. Fishing for a better or at least different toy.

All of us old guys are thinking about thinning the herd before its to late.

[Robert G. Smits]

If "thinning the collection" or "lost storage" didn't work on a certain group of buyers we wouldn't still be seeing it. It is meant to imply "I'm desperate". To me "inquire" translates to "I haven,t decided how much I can stick you for yet. 

[bobg1951chevy]

Some classified ad require a price to be included, or there is no ad placement. I like that concept, very much.

 

I judge a seller by what he writes.

 

The accurate account of the vehicle, in photos and descriptions, get my attention.

 

When I see an WRITTEN ad, describing their 235"" Chevy, as a V6, that tells me about the seller, as well.

 

Granted, some ads only give you the opportunity to "click" various boxes for vehicle equipment .... I'm speaking of the written ads

 

The ads written by the "slick seller" never get my phone call or business.

 

Those "slick seller" ads stick out like a sore thumb, but the "slick seller"  never sees it in that light.

 

Buyer beware !

[George Smolinski]

1 hour ago, JACK M said:

George,

The swap thing is part of the disease.

Everybody knows that. Fishing for a better or at least different toy.

All of us old guys are thinking about thinning the herd before its to late.

That's funny Jack. Your CL ad you have posted in the Buy/Sell forum is exactly what I'm talking about. Your CL states you lost storage & you're thinning the herd. At the bottom of the ad you mention swap, trade? So, what is your ad implying? That you truly did lose storage & you must sell one or more cars or that you're just fishing for a different or better car? Either way, with both statements in your ad, one of them is misleading, thus your ad is misleading. Even though the car seems to be decent for a decent price, I would shy away from it because of the ad, because if you can't be forthright in the ad how will you be in the actual description & eventual sale. Can you see my point?

[lump]

Personally, I can't believe any of these sales strategies surprise anyone. Car sellers, both professional and amateur try to list their sale ads in a fashion THEY THINK gives them the best chance to make a sale. "Twas ever thus," going back to the first cars and the first salesmen. Listing very high prices in the first ad most often turns off most potential buyers. So sellers try to avoid that. I find that rather obvious, and it has always been that way.

 

Sellers who have sold lots of expensive cars for lots of years have naturally developed lots of techniques, which are effective to varying degrees. One thing that EVERY new car sales person is taught, is that you must first generate a call from a prospective buyer, and then you must use every technique at your disposal to find their name and contact info. So they try to list a car for sale in the most enticing way possible (enticing to potential buyers who are most likely to be vulnerable to making a purchase). When callers ask the price on a car (new or old), many highly-trained sales persons will reveal that price only slowly...all the while stalling a bit as they try to get the name of the caller. You may say that this would never work for you, and wouldn't work for most thinking people. But as a professional marketing consultant and trainer, I can assure you that it does work. Need proof? Just look at the many, many millionaire owners of car dealerships around the country...both new car dealerships and used car dealerships. These folks have learned what works, and they continue to do that. Those of us who are not dealers or people who sell lots of expensive used cars may be mystified by their tactics. But insiders are not. 

 

Amateur sellers try their own techniques...often not so polished, and often not so effective as the pros. But there is no mystery here. They are just trying strategies and tactics which they hope will prove successful. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by lump (see edit history)

[JACK M]

 

I am trying to see your point George, most guys that advertise on C/L are not real salesmen.

I didn't feel anything not forthright.

I sold my house next door to my daughter and she is making noises that I should make my move out complete, hence the loss of storage.

I have plenty of room but limited inside storage.

And since I have so many running vehicles I thought I might fish out a project from someone that has given up. We read about those guys all the time don't we.

You may be passing on some good deals if you pass so easily for as simple of reason as not liking the way a guy advertises.

As far as thinning the herd, that's just logic. All of us old guys should be doing that. I just paid another year with Haggerty. Full coverage on twelve vehicles and living in a very rainy area only lets me enjoy so much driving.

Most of my cars are spoken for but none of my kids would do more than a quick sale on any of the rest of them.

So, I say if someone is advertising something that I am interested in I would at least give a call to find out if he really is a jerk for lack of better term, he might just be ignorant like me.

As long as we are having fun is what I always say.

 

 

[D Yaros]

6 hours ago, padgett said:

One thing I have found about dealers: the same car is often listed many places and if one has no price, another may. Second, given a VIN, you can find out a lot about a car, mostly for free. Everything from a broadcast sheet to a complete history of the car to the current title status. True, the older the car, the harder it is but back into the '50s it is all there if you know where to look.

 

The key to buying any car is research so that you know exactly what you are looking for/at.

 

I just researched a purchase for a friend.  I found the car listed in multiple places; one place claimed the car had 85K miles while another listed it as having 108K miles!  I also found it listed at a  price of $36K and an auction no sale high bid of $22k.

 

It was interesting to see the various locations where the car resided, the various prices and a bit disconcerting to see the mileage discrepancies.  

[D Yaros]

What is the reaction, I wonder, to use of the term "serious buyers only" in an ad?

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, bobg1951chevy said:

I judge a seller by what he writes.

The accurate account of the vehicle, in photos and descriptions, get my attention.

 

Good point, Bob.

 

 Many dealers don't write much about the cars.  They show

50 pictures, but don't say anything substantial in the text.

Their text talks about Charlie Nash and his brother-in-law's

milkman's cousin, and the history of the company that we 

already know.

 

Maybe they're thinking, "Well, if I don't describe the condition,

no one can come back and dispute what I said."  They can then say,  

"Oh, didn't you see the scratch at the bottom left of picture #47?

That wasn't just a reflection!"

 

Instead, I like the ads that give LOTS of detail--truthfully pointing out

the pros and the cons.  I prefer to buy from a person who KNOWS

his car through and through and who can describe it honestly and accurately.

Edited April 30, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Good point, Bob.

 

 Many dealers don't write much about the cars.  They show

50 pictures, but don't say anything substantial in the text.

Their text talks about Charlie Nash and his brother-in-law's

milkman's cousin, and the history of the company that we 

already know.

 

Maybe they're thinking, "Well, if I don't describe the condition,

no one can come back and dispute what I said."  They can then say,  

"Oh, didn't you see the scratch at the bottom left of picture #47?

That wasn't just a reflection!"

 

Instead, I like the ads that give LOTS of detail--truthfully pointing out

the pros and the cons.  I prefer to buy from a person who KNOWS

his car through and through and who can describe it honestly and accurately.

Yes, I totally agree with your comments, John.

Way too many times, I see the history of the manufacturer written out in several paragraphs, but next to nothing about the car for sale.

I'm currently looking for a '65 to '69 Corvair Monza,  so many of the ads give the history of Ralph Nadar.

[Jim Bollman]

Second to price I want to know where the car is located. Unless it is a super rare very expensive car, a rough location is important because I have to get it home. Often it cost almost as much to get it home as it cost.

I am the moderator of the Crosley Auto Club message board and we allow ads. If I post ads for non members I always insist on price and location and strongly suggest pictures. Since members can post, I can't insist on those two items, but I can guarantee those are the first two questions asked if they are not included.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Another statement I find funny is, "Great investment."

We all know that cars are usually not great investments.

And if its potential appreciation is so great, why is the seller selling it?!

[Guest]

George, your assessment is spot on!

[George Smolinski]

1 hour ago, GregLaR said:

George, your assessment is spot on!

Well, thank you Greg.

[mcdarrunt]

I have a shop that does restoration and street rod work and I guess that through the years we have turned out more a thousand rides for people. On occasion I have seen one of our vehicles at a car dealer or in an auction and I can tell you this for SURE, don't believe a word they say when describing that vehicle; they are telling you what they think you want to hear. A 56 Ford big rear window half ton pickup showed up on an old car dealer after the owner died so I stopped to see what the price tag was. A salesman pounced on me and began spewing out all the details and I thought I must be looking at one truck while he was touting another. The Volare/Aspen torsion bar IFS unit had turned into a Mustang II unit, the 400M engine was now a 351 Cleveland Cobra, The Cruisamatic had morphed into a C6. and the Dana 60 rear had become a 9 inch Ford. That was just the drive train. The Arizona never rusted cab actually had nearly every panel but the cowl/firewall replaced, and those had been worked. The lesson here is to take a very experienced mechanic/builder with you when big bucks are involved and even more important is trace the history of what you are considering buying. Picture of the truck when it was returned to have a master disconnect switch installed because battery would discharge if left setting for a month but this became an "anti theft device".

 

 

 

[nick8086]

I will not give a price.. You list on C/L you get random guys looking to make a buck..

 

If I sell a car I try to get the old price guide  price..

[auburnseeker]

Listing a price usually helps you weed out many non serious buyers who are expecting to buy your 20,000 car for 2,500.  It helps avoid alot of time on the phone with dreamers and emails as well. 

I have to really want a car to call on one with no price.   I have lots of interest,  so unless it's on my hot list and reads like it's going to be priced right, I pass and find another that I know is atleast in my price range.  Almost everyone here has a budget in mind when they buy a car.  Though I always seem to stretch it,  i have to stay in the parameters. Probably  no seller is going to drop 30,000 off the price of an 80,000 car because he likes me and I only have 50G to spend.

I also don't mind if a dealer buys my car if he is giving me the best offer.  I can spend his money as easily as anyone elses on my next car. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

7 hours ago, nick8086 said:

I will not give a price.. You list on C/L you get random guys looking to make a buck..

 

If I sell a car I try to get the old price guide  price..

In some cases, listed values, are different from market values. Old Car Price Guide seems to be way off on some of their numbers. I have not bought one for a few years, maybe they have gotten better.  

[60FlatTop]

I am a random guy who looks for cars on Craigslist to make a buck.

 

I guess I just look at the ads and think "How could I ad value to this presentation.

 

Ummmmm, move the car 3 feet before taking the picture?

 

I sold one last year that I only washed and vacuumed the interior.

 

Some people have a propensity to denigrate everything they own that has value. Been that way for thousands of years and they still think they were taken.

 

"Well! You bought that Buick I had sunken in the ground, musty inside, and covered with leaves. Then you put it on air, made the wheels turn, Made it smell less, and washed it. YOU took advantage of me!"

"Well, not specifically you."

 

Bernie- I have a folder full of pictures like this that I saved for online ads. If I pick the 12 best ones and make a calendar to sell would that be exploitation?

 

[Pomeroy41144]

One would think that including the price in the ad would keep the dreamers from calling and wasting the seller's time. 

 

 

And the old saying "If you have to ask, then you can't afford it" is a bunch of nonsense.  If one does not ask, then how will one know what to pay? 

Even really wealthy people need to ask the price--how on earth can they write the check if they don't know the price? 

 

The ads that state "full restoration" are to be taken with a grain of salt:  "1936 Ford Coupe.  Fully restored with 350/350 and Ford 9 inch; IFS, air, power windows, cruise, CD changer.  Over $80,000 invested  Must sell.    $40,000.  Serious Only." 

 

Amusing. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

10 hours ago, mcdarrunt said:

  On occasion I have seen one of our vehicles at a car dealer or in an auction and I can tell you this for SURE, don't believe a word they say when describing that vehicle; they are telling you what they think you want to hear. ...

 

Important words, McDarrant.

They should be kept in mind by every potential buyer.

 

That's why I much prefer an honest seller who has

had the car for years and can tell you its strengths

and weaknesses in detail.

[nick8086]

Here is one for the calendar. Ran before it was parked.. The pictures are not from the net.. Just our farm..

Edited May 2, 2017 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[nick8086]

one more -

[cutlasguy]

The worst experience I had was when I was about to purchase a new 1990 Cougar from Clarks Summit Lincoln Mercury! I could see the sticker price, but when I asked the salesman what I could buy it for, he told me that I would have to agree to buy it first and then he would tell me the price! Have you ever heard of such a thing? Then to make matters worse, they sold me a life insurance policy that I couldn't cancel, even after my loan was paid off! The best thing that happened was them going out of business!

[billorn]

Maybe sometimes a seller is waiting to see what a buyer is willing to pay? That sounds harsh but maybe they just dont know and hope that a good offer will come in. I once bought a 1955 Oldsmobile from a guy who didnt advertize a price but when I called he said what sounds fair to you and I gave him a number and he accepted it. So sometimes it works out. Maybe he would have taken less but I was happy with the deal.

[JV Puleo]

On 5/1/2017 at 0:54 AM, mcdarrunt said:

On occasion I have seen one of our vehicles at a car dealer or in an auction and I can tell you this for SURE, don't believe a word they say when describing that vehicle; they are telling you what they think you want to hear.

 

My day job involves a collector magazine in another area... one that also has a large "auction scene" component of expensive antiques sought by supposedly informed collectors. Most of my own collecting, modest as it is, is done at auction. But, I am frequently asked if this is a good idea for beginning collectors and my standard reply is that "if you need the auctioneers description, you are not qualified to buy at auction."

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, cutlasguy said:

The worst experience I had was when I was about to purchase a new 1990 Cougar from Clarks Summit Lincoln Mercury! I could see the sticker price, but when I asked the salesman what I could buy it for, he told me that I would have to agree to buy it first and then he would tell me the price! Have you ever heard of such a thing? Then to make matters worse, they sold me a life insurance policy that I couldn't cancel, even after my loan was paid off! The best thing that happened was them going out of business!

 

If that happened at the summit, it had to be down hill from there.

[F&J]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:38 AM, Pomeroy41144 said:

And the old saying "If you have to ask, then you can't afford it" is a bunch of nonsense.  If one does not ask, then how will one know what to pay? 

Even really wealthy people need to ask the price--how on earth can they write the check if they don't know the price? 

 

 

It's merely a failed attempt to make the car seem more desirable.   Trying to interest a newbie buyer into thinking it MUST be something special.  I have not seen that "worn out" phrase in decades.... maybe they figured out that many people instantly know they are dealing with a dolt. 

 

there are some really nice people out there that are long time vintage high end dealers.  The one that comes to mind in my own State of CT, is a hardcore hobbyist ....and when I went to their showroom once, he did a tour with us of their sale cars, but quickly went to show the customers cars in for repairs.  I could tell he is more of a hobbyist, from the excitement showing as he described features that made the cars special.

[bobg1951chevy]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:31 PM, nick8086 said:

Here is one for the calendar. Ran before it was parked.. The pictures are not from the net.. Just our farm..

The phrase "Ran before it was parked"  has the same value as saying "he was alive before he died".

There's one now, stating this particular 1970 vehicle has "matching numbers" ...... then the ad continues, stating the driveline has been replaced.

[JACK M]

I have found that most if not all old cars "used to run".

[39BuickEight]

I often ask, "if it ran when parked, then why was it parked?"