Wedgewood64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Hello all, I was monkeying around in the driver's armrest console b/c my power seat will usually go forward and not back, unless I stick my fingers in there, or open the door just right. Anyway, the seat wasn't cooperating so I removed the console a bit and in the process shorted out the power windows (and caused one of them to go down and stay that way....). I then discovered that whatever short had happened also is causing my battery to drain. what in the world did I do?! The chassis manual doesn't have anything on the windows. Where's the relay, exactly? will it need to be replaced? Is it normal that it would cause the battery to drain? Any temp fix so that I can run the car while waiting for new relay? thanks folks, didn't see too much on this in existing threads. nick ps--got the seat to go back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 The windows and the seat get their power from a circuit breaker located behind the kick panel on the driver's side. Remove the kick panel and the circuit breaker is mounted on a brace that's at about the same height as the top of the kick panel you just removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 There is no relay in the power window system on the first gen cars. Not exactly sure what your problem is but the power window system is basically power into the switch and power out to the motor which grounds thru the door frame. The Fisher Body manual has the info for the power windows and power seat. There is a circuit breaker behind the driver`s side kick panel. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Wedgewood64 said: Hello all, I was monkeying around in the driver's armrest console b/c my power seat will usually go forward and not back, unless I stick my fingers in there, or open the door just right. Anyway, the seat wasn't cooperating so I removed the console a bit and in the process shorted out the power windows (and caused one of them to go down and stay that way....). I then discovered that whatever short had happened also is causing my battery to drain. what in the world did I do?! The chassis manual doesn't have anything on the windows. Where's the relay, exactly? will it need to be replaced? Is it normal that it would cause the battery to drain? Any temp fix so that I can run the car while waiting for new relay? thanks folks, didn't see too much on this in existing threads. nick ps--got the seat to go back! To confirm, the seat only goes back if you open the door just right? Definitely sounds a lot like a power wire ground out, or possibly a wire that is beginning to break where the harness bends at the door opening. A grounding situation would cause the battery to drain, kinda slowly I think. A full short should have tripped the breaker, so I don't think it would kill the battery. Edited April 23, 2017 by jsgun (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I don't know what the rules are posting excerpts from the repair manuals. It's its a problem i'll delete it. Here's a factory diagram showing where the breaker is and the feed from the fuse block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Here's the power windows diagram. I suspect the issues is right at the switch wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric's.64.Superwildcat Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Here is a photo of the breaker being referenced. It's the piece in the center. The power posts are facing toward the outside of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Thank you all for the diagrams and photos. So, for a dumb question: the breaker is re-settable or not? If not, is it a standard swap? 30A? Is the battery drain unrelated? For the seat problem, sometimes (not always) it can be moved when the door is opened wide; but usually I can get it to move just by reaching my fingers into the arm console by pushing back the panel and just feeling around a little. What usually happens when it doesn't work is that I can hear the switch kick in somehow (makes a little thump) but it doesn't move the seat back. Thanks again, nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Oh, ps: After I shorted the windows and they wouldn't work, the seat DID keep working. But isn't that on the same breaker?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) You said a window got stuck down, but you didn't say which one. Do the windows work from their individual switches? That is, does the passenger door window operate using the switch on the passenger door? You might just have a loose switch... Edited April 23, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Wedgewood64 said: Oh, ps: After I shorted the windows and they wouldn't work, the seat DID keep working. But isn't that on the same breaker?? Yep, it's on the same breaker. It's auto-resetting, I believe its thermal so once it cools down it resets. It's 30 amp. I think it would be worthwhile to check out that wiring harness. My connector plugging into the switch was brittle and falling apart, yours might be doing that too. Might be why it was working sporadically, then suddenly stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Wedgewood64 said: Thank you all for the diagrams and photos. So, for a dumb question: the breaker is re-settable or not? If not, is it a standard swap? 30A? Is the battery drain unrelated? For the seat problem, sometimes (not always) it can be moved when the door is opened wide; but usually I can get it to move just by reaching my fingers into the arm console by pushing back the panel and just feeling around a little. What usually happens when it doesn't work is that I can hear the switch kick in somehow (makes a little thump) but it doesn't move the seat back. Thanks again, nick If a wire is loose on the switch, and caused the motor to keep trying to run when it was at the extent of travel, it would just drain the battery. The motor wouldn't pull enough amp to trip the breaker, so it would just sit there pushing but unable to move. The thump sounds like the seat motor is trying to move, but I suspect it's not getting enough amps. Maybe from a dirty switch contact, or a weak wire connection. Kinda like how a starter does when the battery is almost dead or the cable is being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) #1 you said a window quit working....which one. If its one of the rear windows or passenger window did that work with the switch at that location and just the drivers switch isnt working?? #2 if the seat still moved its not the breaker The seat motor/transmission is pretty easy to disassemble and clean contacts. The grease gets gummed up, so good cleaning should make it work much better. The seat switch is pretty weak and wears out over time, maybe check it as well for proper travel and continuity. Dont be afraid to take the door skin off and check your harness. With the remote mirror watch the cable and disconnect it from the door panel before you start. If you dont have the remote mirror just pull the panel PS the windows work all the time, so if you do have a bad contact its going to drain your battery Edited April 23, 2017 by alini (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 10 hours ago, KongaMan said: You said a window got stuck down, but you didn't say which one. Do the windows work from their individual switches? That is, does the passenger door window operate using the switch on the passenger door? You might just have a loose switch... So, there was a shorting sound (and whiff of smoke) at the console when some part of the harness assembly touched ground, I guess. At that point the windows didn't work, but when I moved the console assembly some more, and it touched ground (I guess), the passenger side window started going down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, alini said: #1 you said a window quit working....which one. If its one of the rear windows or passenger window did that work with the switch at that location and just the drivers switch isnt working?? #2 if the seat still moved its not the breaker Just hooked up the recharged battery to check this out. OK, none of the windows works from the driver's controls; the two read windows work from their armrest controls; the passenger window does not. I do indeed need to get in there... with the battery disconnected... and see what might be going on. I now suspect from what you all say that the breaker never tripped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 If the rear windows are working with their switches your breaker is fine. If the passenger window is moving its possible the short is still in the drivers door but the wires from the drivers switch to that side is part of your problem too. I would disconnect your battery, remove the door skin on the drivers side and check the wiring. Im suspecting its rubbed against the window track over time and is now shorting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 10 hours ago, Wedgewood64 said: So, there was a shorting sound (and whiff of smoke) at the console when some part of the harness assembly touched ground, I guess. At that point the windows didn't work, but when I moved the console assembly some more, and it touched ground (I guess), the passenger side window started going down... Pull the door skin. Sounds like you might have wire that's pinched or rubbed raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Whenever I see a post like this I fall in love with my crank windows and manually adjusting seat all over again! I agree it sounds like you have a wire with the insulation worn off and shorting out to the metal on the door. It's time to inspect all the wiring in that door. Also inspect the wires in the door jamb area where they flex when you open and close the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 Well, I haven't had the courage to pull the door skin quite yet (to get at the seat issue). The more pressing problem is the windows: at least one problem is that the main feed wire came out of the harness thing that clips on to the master window switches. Those wires have springy connectors that the posts on the underside of the switch slide into. However, mine has broken off (as pictured). Any suggestions? This doesn't strike me as a standard connector... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 Oh, and now I've been through and applied the feed to all the windows and everything works fine. There is no actual short, it's just the problem of connecting the feed to the switch itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Looks like you need to start looking for another plug from a parts car. When you find one you can remove the wire and connector from the parts car plug and solder it to the end of the wire on your harness and plug it back in to the connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric's.64.Superwildcat Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Is it possible to salvage the connector and simply solder it back in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Look for just the back part of the switch housing. They're being reproduced in plastic rather than cardboard. I don't know where to dig to find the ones I have or even if there's a manufacturer's name on them. You can reshape the clips to fit over the pins, you just need to be able to keep them in the right place. I'm sure there are others out there who've found and used these repo parts. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, RivNut said: Look for just the back part of the switch housing. They're being reproduced in plastic rather than cardboard. I don't know where to dig to find the ones I have or even if there's a manufacturer's name on them. You can reshape the clips to fit over the pins, you just need to be able to keep them in the right place. I'm sure there are others out there who've found and used these repo parts. Ed Found sth that looks like what you're describing on eBay. Thanks for the tip. I can't see a soldering repair working, but maybe a reshape is in order. Will try tomorrow. Ebay link Edited April 30, 2017 by Wedgewood64 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneybeauchamp Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Soldering mine on passenger side worked for me. After removing the switch socket, first filed the two retaining bits of plastic so I could remove the top cover to access the clips. Then I removed the clip from the housing after taking some pics, with it mounted in a vice, used a small screwdriver and small hammer to open up the clip. Removed all the wire ends and soldered back on to the harness. After installing all the wires in the right positions, used Araldite to glue the top cover to the pins and sides. All now working as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Wedgewood64 said: Found sth that looks like what you're describing on eBay. Thanks for the tip. I can't see a soldering repair working, but maybe a reshape is in order. Will try tomorrow. If you would, post the eBay link so others can see the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 OK, well, not an authorized fix, but I just cut away a bit of that cardboard switch housing backing so that I could have easy access to the switch pin. Then I took a crimp connector with a female end that I crimped some till it fit snug over the pin. Then I just plugged in it. I think Rodney's handiwork was out of my league. Now all I need to do is remove that door skin to track down the seat issue. And I guess I can install those window fuzzies I ordered like 20 years ago... Thanks all! I was convinced I had done major mischief but not so much after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgewood64 Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 hours ago, RivNut said: If you would, post the eBay link so others can see the part. here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Wedgewood64 said: OK, well, not an authorized fix, but I just cut away a bit of that cardboard switch housing backing so that I could have easy access to the switch pin. Then I took a crimp connector with a female end that I crimped some till it fit snug over the pin. Then I just plugged in it. I think Rodney's handiwork was out of my league. Now all I need to do is remove that door skin to track down the seat issue. And I guess I can install those window fuzzies I ordered like 20 years ago... Thanks all! I was convinced I had done major mischief but not so much after all. Your seat issue will most likely be one of two problems or both. Check to be sure the switch is throwing voltage at both the seat motor and the transmission when commanding the seat to move. If the switch is performing properly disassemble the transmission, clean out the old grease and regrease to be sure the components are not frozen in place but are free to slide. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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