Cardone rebuilt TEVES units

[89RedDarkGrey]

At just over $1k at some places- this is a good investment to keep your Reatta going and stopping safely.

 

The peace of mind might just be worth it to some owners, to keep from scrapping an otherwise nice car.

 

LINK             

 

Just $816 FREE S&H HERE

Edited April 22, 2017 by 89RedDarkGrey (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

Looks like whatever stock there was is gone.  RockAuto shows out of stock and Summit Racing seems to have no clue on the part.  The link directly to the Cardone site does not seems to have a direct online purchase option and the only online sellers they show is RockAuto and Summit

[89RedDarkGrey]

That's a bummer. I was going on info Ronnie had brought up over at ROJ.

 

Ronnie's Link

[KDirk]

At this point, the best we can hope for is to keep the Teves  systems functional with working spares from parts cars and some ingenuity. The latter may eventually include  scrapping the Teves setup and fitting a different ABS system such as those offered as retrofits for classic cars.

 

While the accumulator issue has been addressed - for now - pressure switches  and wheel sensor leads are still unresolved  going forward due to a lack of new parts and suitable substitute parts. Pump motors themselves will wear out, as has been posted here just recently. I imagine the seals within the valve block will also be a problem on these at some point.

 

There will come a point for most owners where it is no longer practical (or even possible) to keep these systems functional, which will mean the car either gets mothballed/junked or some alternative solution will have to be employed to keep it roadworthy.

 

Personally, I have stockpiled a number of complete working Teves units to use in case of failure  of those on my cars. This will buy me some time but probably not more than another  10-15 years realistically as they are all used parts.

Edited April 22, 2017 by KDirk (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

I was browsing RockAuto a while back, and saw some GM hubs that now incorporate the pickup in the hub. I'm not that electronic savvy, but can imagine if the entire ABS system was upgraded- it might be feasible. What communicates to the ABS? Pressure and fluid level sensors are read by the ECBM or BCM or both?

 

Searching RA if you look up '05 Park Avenue- if willing to spend you could get the complete ABS there. It uses a regular vacuum booster. The hubs look identical to Reatta.

 

R&D, knowledge, time and $$$ are the only things holding this back. Imagine what D-A-N-I-E-L has gone through with his setup  

[handmedownreatta]

i was planning to go back conventional/vacumn when the system dies but im not even finding donor rivs in the yards anymore.

[89RedDarkGrey]

46 minutes ago, handmedownreatta said:

i was planning to go back conventional/vacumn when the system dies but im not even finding donor rivs in the yards anymore

 

Why would you need (or want) used old parts? If just going to conventional- all new parts (aftermarket) are easily had.  1989 Buick Riviera conventional brakes

Edited April 22, 2017 by 89RedDarkGrey (see edit history)

[KDirk]

Newer style hubs with integral sensors were used on 91 models with the Bosch system, but only on the rear wheels. Fronts still used separately serviceable sensors though different from the 88-90 type. The biggest issue in trying to use other (non Reatta) hubs is the resistance of the coil in the hall effect pickup. If its within the same acceptable range as the original sensors, it would likely work, though then you have the hub mounting,  stud pattern, and on the fronts the number of splines on the CV axle as possible stumbling points. So, still not an easy path to substitution. I looked at some these issues before, and fronts particularly are a sorts of screwed up because the CV axles come in many different lengths and spline types.

 

An industrious sort could probably wind new coils to spec, but as far as making sensors that met the need in terms of reliability and resistance to contamination from moisture, not sure how a DIY sensor would fare long term. Making a hermetically sealed sensor head isn't exatcly a basement project, even for a obsessively  determined pain in the butt like me. 

 

[AZVET]

I have a Spinning Wheels accumulator for sale in the ROJ.  They might have moved the post to another discussion titled "Trouble with my accumulator".  Please fully read the discussion there.  $80 plus actual shipping cost.

First to PM me gets it. 

Don't be asleep at the switch here as I am mailing it to 2 Seater on April 24 so he can test it for the research he is doing on new vs used accumulators.  After he tests it I will put in on eBay.

Edited April 23, 2017 by AZVET (see edit history)

[handmedownreatta]

15 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

 

Why would you need (or want) used old parts? If just going to conventional- all new parts (aftermarket) are easily had.  1989 Buick Riviera conventional brakes

usually when you try to make a conversion theres a lot of extra parts that you need.clips,screws,brackets...plus core charges.

[KDirk]

^ this is a valid point regarding the conversion to non-ABS. There are hardware items that are not electrical or hydraulic  that are probably not available new now  and would have to come from a donor Riviera. Another problem is that the Rivieras of the years from which these parts can be culled are not only rare to find anyway, but some (not sure what % of production) have Teves ABS as well since it was an option on the Riviera. Point being that if you find an 88-90 Riviera in a yard, it will not have the conventional brake system if it was optioned with ABS  which means you still can't get the parts needed from it for the conversion .

 

While this is an approach taken by a few to rid their Reatta of the hassles involved with maintaining the Teves ABS, the window of opportunity for doing so by finding the parts  on a donor car has largely (but not completely) closed now, given the rarity of 88-90 Rivieras to be found as parts cars. Heck, I probably see more Reattas than Rivieras anymore.

 

 

[stall]

At this point my Reatta has what I consider wonderful feeling Brakes. I have some spare Teves parts sourced through some of the truly great posters on this forum but when a failure happens that cannot be repaired I'll retrofit.

 

There are any number of vendors that furnish some really small booster and master-cyl. units for hot rods. I have a friend that builds rods for a living and he says that refitting the brakes (w/o ABS) is an easy project that would not be very expensive.

 

Going forward this "Teves" problem can make our cars unusable; in my opinion it has already destroyed the resale market for our cars. Think about parts availability; I own a 55 Studebaker Speedster that is one of 2260 built. I can source every mechanical part including all brake items from NAPA or Studebaker International. The bottom line is that our Reatta's are great cars truly hampered by an overcomplicated, first try brake system. 

 

Just my opinion

[89RedDarkGrey]

5 hours ago, handmedownreatta said:

usually when you try to make a conversion theres a lot of extra parts that you need.clips,screws,brackets

 

2 hours ago, KDirk said:

this is a valid point regarding the conversion to non-ABS. There are hardware items that are not electrical or hydraulic  that are probably not available new now  and would have to come from a donor Riviera

 

I'm sorry I'm dense on this. Master Cylinder, Booster, maybe re bend the main 3 lines to go fit to the Master instead of the ABS valve block. What "rare unattainable parts" are you fellas talking about? The purpose of the conversion is omitting several "rare unattainable parts" not just doing the same. Why is this being made to sound more complicated than it should be? Fluid level sensor is basically universal (resistance) and the TEVES pressure switch is probably the same- much like the cooling fan modification.

 

38 minutes ago, stall said:

Going forward this "Teves" problem can make our cars unusable; in my opinion it has already destroyed the resale market for our cars

 

I totally agree. "Professionally" I can't think of a Commercial chain that would even know what they're looking at- let alone be able to service the system correctly. DAVES89 remarked of a pristine Reatta in a junkyard that was mostly there due to the brake system. Like I said before- the few necessary parts are all easily had new. What's the big deal?

[KDirk]

Off hand, the actuator (not sure if that is the right term for it) that goes from the pedal through the firewall. From a previous writeup on the conversion, I seem to recall it is differently sized than that of the Teves system. I think some drilling was required to fit it. Also not certain that part is available new as an aftermarket part or not. Also believe the rear proportioning valve is different and not sure if the exact replacement for that in still  available,  or maybe it was the proportioning valve for the Teves setup that is not available. So, probably just a couple of key parts that may be difficult to source if they aren't readily available new.

 

 

[89RedDarkGrey]

An ('89) Reatta uses only 3 brake lines. The rear is branched off to both wheels. The selection I'm referring to HERE has 4 channels, and incorporated front and rear regulation. They have fluid level sensor caps available, if needed. I'd prefer a 4 channel system anyway.

[2seater]

I wonder about that thing in the rear that is supposedly a proportioning valve, which I did find was unavailable new a few years ago. When I remanufactured all the rear brake lines for my '89, it doesn't appear to be anything more than a misshapen tee? When I re-did the rear lines, I relocated the "thing" to a central and easily accessed location on the rear subframe. I wonder how this would even function? The location is completely off center, so there is a huge disparity in line length and almost any proportioning valves I have seen on other vehicles are at or close to the front?  Since this is a three channel as RDG points out, why would it even need such a thing? The rear brakes function purely from modulating the booster pressure while the fronts do get a conventional boost from the assist system. I did not try those brakes in anger after I did the relocation, so perhaps there is some sort of balancing happening that I could not detect in normal use. Buick proportioner vs Thunderbird. Same Teves Mark II, and the T'bird one is still available but is it correct???

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by 2seater (see edit history)

[89RedDarkGrey]

A 3 channel ABS system treats the 1 channel (rear in Reatta) as one wheel when engaging anti skid function. Only the (front) two are independently operated if a front WSS doesn't match the other front WSS. More on this is HERE

 

3 hours ago, 2seater said:

it doesn't appear to be anything more than a misshapen tee?

 

Correct. Equalization is a function of the Master Cylinder- any added "switch" (like you show) is used for locking up the fronts only- for launches, burnouts, etc. They also make (you show) the "twist" type that is nothing more than a limiting valve (adjustable orifice) HERE

The system I propose- is a self-proportioning (60/40) 4 channel Master Cylinder and vacuum booster. Adjustable booster extension rods and kits , Booster-to-manifold hose , vacuum filter, fluid level cap, even an inline pressure switch are all available.

 

If it means junking your car, or relying on a system pieced together with used parts- possibly risking life and limb- I'd tear that TEVES out real quick.