GregLaR

FleaBay Does it Again! Museum Quality GT350?

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GregLaR    226

Current listing for a 1966 Mustang, Hertz GT 350 out of Costa Mesa, CA. for $119,800. Fully documented and previously part of a museum collection.

But when you see the first image posted it's clear to anyone who knows Mustangs that the car has the back up light fixtures bolted in place of the front turn signals!

:lol::unsure:

$_1 (2).JPG

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I can't speak for this particular Ford, but

I often chuckle to myself when I hear the term

"museum quality."  Has anyone noticed what

museums' cars are really like?  Some cars are

beautifully restored, but rarely driven so mechanically

questionable.  Some museum cars no longer run.

Even cosmetically, some museum cars are in

#3 condition at best.  It's a rare museum whose cars

are all in perfect condition and mechanically maintained!

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3 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

I can't speak for this particular Ford, but

I often chuckle to myself when I hear the term

"museum quality."  Has anyone noticed what

museums' cars are really like?  Some cars are

beautifully restored, but rarely driven so mechanically

questionable.  Some museum cars no longer run.

Even cosmetically, some museum cars are in

#3 condition at best.  It's a rare museum whose cars

are all in perfect condition and mechanically maintained!

You are exactly right, John. "Museum Quality" is a term that shouldn't be used to describe perfection. In the real world, museum quality means it's probably going to take a lot of  $$ to either get it up and running, or into show condition. Many a museum put a quicky paint job on their vehicles and put them out for display.

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JACK M    421

Good eye Greg, I am not Mustang savvy so would have never noticed.

Sellers of rare collectables all fall into a sort of 'wanna be' category in my eyes.

(I do some part time work for a couple of those guys). (I get calls that a customer is on the way and they cant get a car to start, Usually out of gas).

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capngrog    229
12 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Current listing for a 1966 Mustang, Hertz GT 350 out of Costa Mesa, CA. for $119,800. Fully documented and previously part of a museum collection.

But when you see the first image posted it's clear to anyone who knows Mustangs that the car has the back up light fixtures bolted in place of the front turn signals!

:lol::unsure:

$_1 (2).JPG

 

Greg,

 

Could you please post a link to the ebay listing?

 

Thanks,

Grog

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Paul Dobbin    176

That's why museums don;t make a lot of money off guys on this Forum.  All experts in our own minds.  Kinds like the people at car shows who ask if I'm the original owner of our 1934 Ford Fordor, (Do I really look that old?) or the one who claims to have a Model T Roadster just like it at home.  Personally I missed the turn signals, but they sure looked nice, (and we owned a 65 Mustang for 24 years).

At least the author knew what "Museum Quality" was.  In our garage, everything is museum quality, my museum.  If you think Mustang folks are critical, try a Corvette show.

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mike6024    106

link http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Ford-Mustang-/332186626242?hash=item4d57dda8c2:g:HK0AAOSwWkJY9WgH&vxp=mtr

 

So it really was in a museum, the BlackHawk Museum. http://www.blackhawkmuseum.org/?hp=5793451706679296

 

Klasse Auto is very proud to offer this very rare and original 1966 Ford Mustang GT350 Hertz. Don't miss this opportunity to get a killer deal on a genuine and verified GT350 Hertz. This car has spent the last 20 years in a California warehouse and before that was in the Blackhawk Museum. If you are a die hard Ford Mustang collector or want to become one this is definitely one of the cars you want in your stable. This is a local car so there is zero rust issues and the interior on the car is all original as well. It comes with the Shelby American World Registry book showing the VIN # of this car as well as a GT350 serial number verification letter from the Shelby American Club. As I said before the car has been sitting on rollers in a warehouse the past 20 years. When we got it we just changed all the fluids, installed a new thermostat, and had the radiator gone thru so just the normal maintenance due after sitting. This is the REAL DEAL and NOT A TRIBUTE car to be clear and 100% Original. Most items on this car are original especially in the interior, the rear quarter panes have been changed at one time and the engine block itself is not a matching number. If you know what you are looking at you know this is the one! It starts right up every time and runs amazing for being an older car. Any questions or concerns and if you need to inspect the car please do before the auction ends. Any questions about the car don't hesitate to contact us ....

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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alsancle    374

The price is relatively low because almost all of the Hertz cars were automatics.  The automatic is a 25% price hit.

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vermontboy    84

" the rear quarter panes have been changed at one time and the engine block itself is not a matching number. "

 

That would be another reason the price is so low. If the rear quarter panels were not changed due to rust than one would assume the car was in an accident. If the block was changed ...... how many other parts are not original, and why ?

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GT52    34
59 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The price is relatively low because almost all of the Hertz cars were automatics.  The automatic is a 25% price hit.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from.  NADA makes no price distinction between sticks and automatics on most if not all Shelby Mustang models.  They do show the '66 Hertz cars at about $3K less than non-Hertz models, but that is on a $200K "average retail" price, so something like 1-1/2% penalty for being a Hertz car.  The Hertz connection itself has always had a minor negative effect on Shelby Mustang values, and maybe some of that is because of the automatic.  When NADA does account for sticks v automatics in muscle cars, and they often do, I don't think I've ever seen the difference exceed 10%, which can still be a pretty good chunk of money.

 

Too funny about the backup lights used being as the front turn signals...I never saw that one before, and I can hardly believe that they seem to fit reasonably well!  It's likely that the car is a pretty old restoration, when a lot less information was available and restoration standards were much lower than they are today.

 

 

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39BuickEight    150

Overall this appears to be a very descriptive and well done listing.  Any car can be picked apart, but the ad itself seems to point out the pluses and minuses.  If it's priced too high, it won't sell.  The ad is much better than most and the seller has perfect feedback?  A car like that won't sell without a proper inspection anyway.  

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"...the car has been sitting on rollers in a warehouse the past 20 years...."

 

Greg LaR was right:  It was sitting for many years--

so it really is "museum quality!"  (And that's not a plus.) 

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alsancle    374
11 hours ago, GT52 said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that from. 

 

 

35 years of collecting musclecars.   There is a big difference between selling  a musclecar with a stick vs an automatic.   The price guide doesn't tell you because price guides are 100% WORTHLESS.

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GT52    34
2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

35 years of collecting musclecars.   There is a big difference between selling  a musclecar with a stick vs an automatic.   The price guide doesn't tell you because price guides are 100% WORTHLESS.

So you think that NADA just makes up the numbers?  Do you think that dealers/buyers/insurers/lenders don't use the NADA guide?  Nothing's perfect, but someone ignores the NADA guide at their own peril.

 

The "high retail" on a '66 GT350 is $255K.  So by your 25% stick v automatic logic a stick should bring nearly $65K more than an automatic, which just simply isn't the case...not even close.  It is true that an automatic will limit the number of buyers to some extent, because there are buyers who simply won't consider an automatic, but that may or may not affect the price.  These are very high value very low production cars and there are a myriad of factors that will affect the price far more than stick v automatic.  I don't know what's "wrong" with the GT350 in question, but at that price it would be long gone if there weren't some issues.

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JACK M    421

So, the car in question doesn't have or didn't come with back up lights?

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alsancle    374

If I'm in a conversation with a supposed car guy and he says either of the following:

 

1.  "such and such 1964 blah blah is a Classic"

 

or

 

2. " such and such price guide says the car with worth X"

 

I have officially stopped listening.  Car guides are not accurate in any way, shape or form for ANY interesting car.  They are probably dead on for your run of the mill homogenized 4 door sedan made in quantities of 1 million units.

 

Telling me that the price guide is says a 66 Shelby is worth 255 High retail makes my point.   There are are some 66 Shelbys (i.e. the 65 continuation cars) that may get that high but there are no Hertz cars that would.

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edinmass    234

Where do we start......price guides or automatic vs stick. 

 

Price guides.......aren't worth the paper their printed on. At least toilet paper is useful and serves a function. My favorite thing to see in a price guide is a value for a car that doesn't even exsist. I see it all the time. I have been in the hobby over forty years, and have never used a price guide to find or figure a value of any car.

 

Stick vs automatic. Why waste my breath. On most decent muscle cars there's a forty percent price difference from a four speed to an automatic. Try and sell a "big time" sixties car for major money with an automatic.....not gonna happen. You will only sell it on price, NOT desirability. 

 

As as far as museum quaility..........It's just a driver. Replaced quarters and incorrect engine make it a bottom feeder car in the collector car world. As far as the museum collection it came from, you can be rest assured that it was a bulk buy situation and the car just came along for the ride. That orginazation has no interest in cars that sell for less than 250,000. The name of the game in car collecting today is provenance. Period. Any story and the car is crap. That applies to brass cars, Classics of the thirties, and the post war collectibles. 

 

But......then again what do I know, an entire lifetime lived in the hobby? Drive you car, enjoy your car, consume it. Currently in my garage I have a bottom feeder low end car, and a 100 point multi cylinder monster Classic. Today I plan on driving the car that costs less than my lawn mower. It isn't about the cost, or the prestige, I drive what I like. Seems to me that is what a hobby is all about. Off to feed the  chickens.......Ed

 

As far as the car in the Ebay ad........the truth Hertz don't it? 😃

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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GT52    34
1 hour ago, edinmass said:

...Stick vs automatic. Why waste my breath. On most decent muscle cars there's a forty percent price difference from a four speed to an automatic. Try and sell a "big time" sixties car for major money with an automatic.....not gonna happen. You will only sell it on price, NOT desirability...

 

Now we're up to a 40% premium for a 4 speed?  Hilarious.

 

Why is it that most times I've run into someone lecturing about NADA and KBB guides being worthless they've either been trying to sell me something for more than book value or trying to buy something from me for less than the book value?  But really then, why wouldn't I believe a random post on the internet or a random person showing up in my driveway, instead of an official publication of a well recognized professional organization dedicated to the process?

 

I'm sure there'd be quite a line forming for any hemi Cuda/Torqueflite, LS6 Chevelle/TH400, COPO Camaro/TH400, or even an early max wedge Polara/Torqueflite that was suddenly 40% off...even though they're clearly "undesirable" because of the transmission.

 

 

Edited by GT52
spelling (see edit history)

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edinmass    234

Gt52 have you ever been to a world class collection of cars? True connoisseurs don't buy marginal or cars with stories. A car with an automatic transmission will almost always take it out of the running for an important collectible. Is there an example of a car from the muscle car era with an automatic that brought more money than the vertually identicle car but with a four speed? Suppose you think the auctions you see on tv are all real......... most of the cars have shill bidders pushing them......... and by the way, most cars valued under say 500,000 dollars aren't really that rare or collectiable. Sad to say, but the working man today usually can't afford the best of what he is interested in. The best cars most often don't make it to public sale or auction. The best of the best are spoken for long before they come up for sale, only the price has to be determined. Try and buy a top five of any type of car........... there is usually a long lined of interested buyers.

 

Maybe it should be a 40 percent deductible for an automatic. And not a premium for a four speed. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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alsancle    374
1 hour ago, GT52 said:

Now we're up to a 40% premium for a 4 speed?  Hilarious.

 

Why is it that most times I've run into someone lecturing about NADA and KBB guides being worthless they've either been trying to sell me something for more than book value or trying to buy something from me for less than the book value?  But really then, why wouldn't I believe a random post on the internet or a random person showing up in my driveway, instead of an official publication of a well recognized professional organization dedicated to the process?

 

I'm sure there'd be quite a line forming for any hemi Cuda/Torqueflite, LS6 Chevelle/TH400, COPO Camaro/TH400, or even an early max wedge Polara/Torqueflite that was suddenly 40% off...even though they're clearly "undesirable" because of the transmission.

 

 

 

I'm assuming that you are either an appraiser or have a lot of stock in NADA or KBB.  I know some appraisers who I respect so I won't disparage the lot but you can probably guess what I think of them too.  

 

Sure a Hemi Cuda with an automatic will find a home,  but the same car with the 4 gear will find a home 5x quicker and at a premium much higher than 10%. If you think otherwise you have never bought or sold a musclecar. 

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