victorialynn2

Fire extinguishers for shop and cars

56 posts in this topic

I've been known to use an air compressor nozzle to put out a garage fire.  Brake cleaner sure is flammable :wacko:  I was trying to clean off a lawnmower to find a source of an oil leak and accidentally made an electrical connection while poking some nasty stuff out with a screwdriver.  Luckily I got it out fast and the damage was limited to melted wires and belts, which I repaired.  I started to push it out of the garage and let it burn but Dad decided to just blow air on it.  Worked like a charm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grimy said:

Restorer's sad tale is actually an advertisement or Halon or Halonite as an automotive fire extinguishing agent.  Opening the hood provided air to the fire and "fed" it. Using Halon or Halonite, shoot UNDER the car, without opening the hood, and the agent will be sucked up into the fire and deny it oxygen.

 

For those of us with louvered hoods, shoot thru the louvers followed by shots under the car.  Best of all, no mess!

 

Halon is REQUIRED on aircraft for a very good reason.  It is considerable more expensive than others but worth it for our cars. 

 

And I completely agree with Roger Walling to keep your extinguishers near the exit of your garage.

 I have been told that the dry chemical will put out the fire OK, but in many instances the chemical will do a lot of damage by it's self.  Halon is the product of choice.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Grimy' put it all together:   Our loved ones, our cars, our buildings and possessions are worth paying for a GOOD, EFFECTIVE  fire extinguisher. 

A CO2 'fog' will conduct electricity: I saw a guy get knocked off his feet when he tried to put out a fire on a running engine:  the ice-fog from the CO2 conducted the current from the ignition system to the extinguisher.  

CO2 hast to DISPLACE the oxygen in the air, in order to starve the fire of oxygen.  It will also starve YOU for oxygen to breath if you are in a small space with no fresh air available.  

A dry chemical extinguisher is just a powder 'blanket'.. It is intended to smother the burning fuel.. be it liquid, solid, gaseous, whatever, a dry chemical extinguisher must cover the burning area to put out the fire..  With the fire under the hood scenario, you can't fight that fire safely with a dry chemical extinguisher, you have to open the hood, and this creates a place for the fire to go, up into your face, and the air is sucked in from under the car..  Spray a dry chemical under the burning engine, and it does NOTHING.  

Spray a CO2 under the burning engine, it might do the job.  

BUT:   HALON or any of the new derivatives WILL put out the fire by spraying under the hood.. The Halon works by attaching to the oxygen in the air, and making it unable to support the combustion of what ever is burning.. it is a chemical reaction, not moving all the oxygen away from the fire like CO2 has to do, or blanketing the fire with a powder.  But just spray at the base of the fire, from 6-8 feet away, and the fire will go out..

 

Halon works best and as 'Grimy' stated, it is the only type of fire extinguisher approved for aircraft use..  If you have a fire in an overhead luggage bin, the aircraft crew members are trained to just pry open a corner of the door to the luggage bin, spray Halon inside, and leave the door closed,  The same for a fire in an aircraft lavatory:  leave the door closed, spray through the louvers in the lower part of the door, if no louvers, then along the floor at the bottom of the door, or open the door a very small amount and discharge the HALON extinguisher.. 

 

I'm a retired Airline pilot, and have had 40 years of annual fire-fighting training, and I've had some very interesting training events that have proven to me that ONLY Halon is worthwhile to buy and count on to save your cars, buildings or loved ones..  

There is the tragic story of the Canadian Air Transportation Dept [like our FAA] outlawing Halon, making that decision on some erroneous information, All Canadian Airliners removed Halon, and put in Dry Chemical extinguishers,  a few months later, a flight from I think Toronto to Cincinnati had a fire in a lavatory, in the trash receptacle, this was back in the '60s I think..  

The dry chemical could not blanket the paper burning in the trash receptacle, and the smoke filled the plane, everyone was killed in the resulting crash of the plane..  within a year, the Canadian Air Transportation Dept reversed their earlier order regarding Halon, and made Halon required equipment..  

 

The amount of Halon that is needed to be effective to put out a fire is about 50% of the concentration that could be harmful to your health,  The concentration of CO2 that is required to put out and keep out a fire is high enough to cause you to pass out from lack of oxygen.. So don't believe the 'Urban Legends about Halon being dangerous to humans or pets.. It's NOT.  

 

A LARGE CO2 is needed to be effective, as well as a LARGE Dry Chemical..  An airliner with 180 passengers has two 2.5# halon extinguishers in the cabin and one 1.5# extinguisher in the cockpit..  That should give you an idea how effective Halon is.. A 2.5# Halon is very effective for a car or truck.. 

 

Every door to my home has at least one Halon near it.  Every vehicle has at least on Halon in the car, and some vehicles have a second one in the trunk, and all enclosed trailers have at least one Halon as well.  

 

A very nice car was destroyed five or six years ago from a fire that started on top of the fuel tank. The car had just had the gas tank filled, it is believed that the brake light wiring might have shorted, but regardless, a fire started on top of the fuel tank, which in this big sedan, was under the rear of the car, roughly under the rear seat.. 

The car had stopped at a stoplight, the driver in the car behind it ran up, told the driver he was on fire,  Both men had a dry chemical extinguisher, and as expected to me when I heard of the fire, the dry chemical was ineffective.. just think: how could you lie under the car and spray up to the top of the fuel tank to put a powder blanket on the fire??   Another dry chemical extinguisher was offered by yet another car that stopped to help, Even with THREE extinguishers, the fire could not be put out. 

The car had a wood body structure, and soon the wood caught fire, and the car was a total loss.  

 

Sorry this turned into a novel..  But there is nothing more terrifying that having a fire raging out of control, and nothing more destructive.  

 

GLong

 

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, GLong said:

 

Sorry this turned into a novel..  But there is nothing more terrifying that having a fire raging out of control, and nothing more destructive.  

 

GLong

 

 

GLobg this is very helpful. The examples answer some of the questions I had with other answers that were a bit over my head. Thank you. 

Believe it or not I have never bought an extinguisher and never had one in my home or car. I started to realize working in the garages could result in fires and also the old cars may catch Fire for some reason. I see some in the garage my father had bit I'm going to assume they have been around too long to be helpful. I plan to buy at least 5 of the 2.5.Halon. 2 for the garage, one for the truck I haul with and one for each house. Thank you very much!

Edited by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found 2 Large and 1 small extinguishers in the garage. All are in the red. They appear to be red metal. How do I dospose of them? If the are refillable I could do that but then be backups because they are not the Halon ones. 

Also, where do I buy Halon ones? Napa only had thebkind my dad had. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are serious about keeping that old time flavor in your garage you can't go wrong hanging one of these one gallon carbon-tet  extinguishers right over the engine bay.

002.thumb.JPG.5b46a649277ffa1aa0242330d5b5caae.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is from wiki .

 

Carbon tetrachloride is one of the most potent hepatotoxins (toxic to the liver), so much so that it is widely used in scientific research to evaluate hepatoprotective agents.[7][14]Exposure to high concentrations of carbon tetrachloride (including vapor) can affect the central nervous system, degenerate the liver[14] and kidneys,[15] and prolonged exposure may lead to coma or death.[16] Chronic exposure to carbon tetrachloride can cause liver[17][18] and kidney damage and could result in cancer.[19] See safety data sheets.[20]

The effects of carbon tetrachloride on human health and the environment have been assessed under REACH in 2012 in the context of the substance evaluation by France. Thereafter, further information has been requested from the registrants. Later this decision was reversed.[21]

In 2008, a study of common cleaning products found the presence of carbon tetrachloride in "very high concentrations" (up to 101 mg/m3) as a result of manufacturers' mixing of surfactants or soap with sodium hypochlorite (bleach).[22]

Like many other volatile substances, carbon tetrachloride is prone to misuse by inhalation, due to its possible depressant and/or dissociative effect upon the central nervous system. Use of carbon tetrachloride in this manner presents serious health risks, and may result in toxic effects described above.

Carbon tetrachloride is also both ozone-depleting[23] and a greenhouse gas.[24] However, since 1992[25] its atmospheric concentrations have been in decline for the reasons described above (see also the atmospheric time-series figure). CCl4 has an atmospheric lifetime of 85 years.[26]

Under high temperatures in air, it forms poisonous phosgene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am only serious about protecting what's in the garage until I can sell it all and get rid of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good thing the carbon-tet has been in the bottle for 100 years. Could have ended up in a laundry dry cleaning shirts during the '20's.

Glad I didn't show the bromide radiator flush. and the jug of R12.

 

My kid keeps asking for a nuclear pinata for his birthday party. I told him no. Just enjoy that they left all the lights on at this place when they went home for the holidays. That's a carbon footprint.

DCnight.JPG.0f6c9544542d7690d314ffa9fefbdfb5.JPG

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

If you are serious about keeping that old time flavor in your garage you can't go wrong hanging one of these one gallon carbon-tet  extinguishers right over the engine bay.

002.thumb.JPG.5b46a649277ffa1aa0242330d5b5caae.JPG

 

In a confined space, Carbon Tet will put down more fire than  $10,000.00 worth of Haylon. If you don't mind killing everything that breaths air for a mile down wind, Carbon Tet will work outside where Haylon won't. When Carbon Tet meets fire it becomes Phosgene Gas, it was used to kill a lot of people during the First World War and outlawed for fire use shortly after.

 

So long as the dammed thing is empty you can't go wrong. If you ever see this, or anything like this, or a liquid filled glass ball (usually red) that hangs from a mount that will melt and let the ball fall and break when it gets hot. Take it down and get it the out of there. If you see something like this hanging anywhere in a place that's on fire, don't waste any time getting yourself out of there and get up wind as far as you can as fast as you can and let the Fire Department know what's in the building.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, victorialynn2 said:

...where do I buy Halon ones? Napa only had the kind my dad had. 

 

Short answer is it looks like you can't.

 

Halon has been pretty much banned since 1994 for other than certain critical aviation and law enforcement uses, thanks to significant to the ozone layer depletion over the 400 year atmospheric lifetime of the gas.

 

Replacements such as Halotron are available but have had limited uptake thanks to reduced effectiveness (2-3 times as much required).  Halotron extinguishers are available on eBay at, typically, $100 for the five-pounder.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have halon 1211 in my shop and cars. Is that the same as halotron?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said:

I am only serious about protecting what's in the garage until I can sell it all and get rid of it. 

 

If you can close up the garage, disconnect the battery cables when cars are stored and get a smoke detector with remote notification. The biggest best fire extinguisher that money can buy only works if you're there to use it.

Best, but also most expensive option is a monitored sprinkler system. Even up here in the frozen north it cost less to sprinkle an un heated detached garage than it does to sprinkle than an already finished home. Long term property improvement with limited resale return, does help some with insurance rates.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Curti said:

I have halon 1211 in my shop and cars. Is that the same as halotron?

Halon 1211 is Halon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Digger914 said:

Halon 1211 is Halon.

 

If that is the case, then real Halon IS AVAILABLE in western Wisconsin from a licensed fire extinguisher guy in November of 2016. Ya, I suppose it is bad for the ozone layer, but so is a burning 50 x 90 building full of cars. 

In my opinion the Halon is the lesser of two evils.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 

If you can close up the garage, disconnect the battery cables when cars are stored and get a smoke detector with remote notification. The biggest best fire extinguisher that money can buy only works if you're there to use it.

Best, but also most expensive option is a monitored sprinkler system. Even up here in the frozen north it cost less to sprinkle an un heated detached garage than it does to sprinkle than an already finished home. Long term property improvement with limited resale return, does help some with insurance rates.

As Digger says, the best fire protection is "fire prevention".  In addition to electrical isolation and installation of MONITORED smoke detectors, good housekeeping is a vital key to fire prevention.

 

3 hours ago, Curti said:

I have halon 1211 in my shop and cars. Is that the same as halotron?

Halotron is not the same as Halon.  As Digger said, Halon 1211 is a form of Halon that is more appropriate for use in hand extinguishers than its chemical cousin, Halon 1301.  Halon 1211 is a "streaming agent" which gasifies at normal atmospheric pressures and whose main health concern is oxygen displacement (smothering), similar to that of CO2.  Halon 1301, in concentrations greater than 13% can cause respiratory distress, heart irregularities, and, in prolonged exposures, death.  Of course at a 20% concentration of Halon, oxygen is depleted to such an extent that humans cannot survive (similar to the smothering effect of CO2).

 

Halon 1211 extinguishers are available from several sources.  Here's one on 'em:  http://fireextinguisherdepot.com/fire-extinguishers/halon-1211-fire-extinguishers.html

 

Both Halon 1211 and 1301 will break down into highly toxic chemical components upon encountering temperatures in excess of 900° F.  This is especially true in the case of direct impingement of Halon on a hot metal surface.  Note that temperatures in an 'ordinary' structure (house) fire can easily exceed 1,000°F.  Try not to use these extinguishers in a confined space.

 

I believe that a Halon 1211 hand fire extinguisher is superior to a similar CO2 extinguisher in most cases and would make an effective extinguisher for both vehicle and shop.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cold fire is a Brand of organic fire extinguishers. it is the only thing i will use in my house, shop, and cars. It is non corrosive so if you have a engine or wiring fire in a car and need to extinguish it you will not contaminate or destroy paint or interior fabrics and leather. It is definitely more expensive, but what is the cost to repaint the front end of a car?

 

http://coldfirecanada.com/features

 

I have no ties to the company. I learned the hard way!

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, what is the active ingredient in Cold Fire ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cold fire, huh. Reminds me, I have a 20 liter liquid Nitrogen dewar and some home made devices I used on a couple refrigeration patents I had in the 1990's. The kids were always quite entertained with what I showed them. It's in the corner by the cans of bromine.

 

Well, I'm off to an environmental symposium for a couple days.

Bernie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to quote Vintagerodshop on this while deleting the video.   Unfortunately, I could delete everything EXCEPT the video!   AAARRRRGGHH!!

 

Anyway, after trying to research this "Cold Fire" stuff, I was unable to find out what the UL 2N75 Standard is and could find no reference to an NFPA or FM approval.  This "Cold Fire" seems to be almost "too good to be true".   The one thing in particular that I'm having trouble wrapping my 'brane' around is the claim that "Cold Fire" absorbs 21 times more heat than water.  If I understand the "Cold Fire" technology correctly, it is used in differing concentrations in water.  If all the claims are true, a "Cold Fire" extinguisher would certainly be a worthy addition to any home or commercial vehicle maintenance facility.  Apparently, "Cold Fire" solutions will freeze in routinely-encountered (up 'north', not here in Florida) freezing weather.

 

Cheers,

Grog

A

2 hours ago, vintagerodshop said:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see that the safety crews use "Cold Fire"  at the local race tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, capngrog said:

I wanted to quote Vintagerodshop on this while deleting the video.   Unfortunately, I could delete everything EXCEPT the video!   AAARRRRGGHH!!

 

Anyway, after trying to research this "Cold Fire" stuff, I was unable to find out what the UL 2N75 Standard is and could find no reference to an NFPA or FM approval.  This "Cold Fire" seems to be almost "too good to be true".   The one thing in particular that I'm having trouble wrapping my 'brane' around is the claim that "Cold Fire" absorbs 21 times more heat than water.  If I understand the "Cold Fire" technology correctly, it is used in differing concentrations in water.  If all the claims are true, a "Cold Fire" extinguisher would certainly be a worthy addition to any home or commercial vehicle maintenance facility.  Apparently, "Cold Fire" solutions will freeze in routinely-encountered (up 'north', not here in Florida) freezing weather.

 

Cheers,

Grog

A

So I had kind of the same thought and went to my old IFSTA manuals for a little refresher course on fire extinguishers and extinguishing agents. "Cold Fire" is a trademark, nothing more than a business name, not a technology. My best guess is that their wetting agent is some improved form of F 500 Encapsulate and referenced as NFPA 18. That this can now be stored premixed under pressure and still be useful at -20  (UL File EX4660) was news to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is .   Where is GLONG, he seems to be well informed on this subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a retired Career Firefighter, there are a few things to be aware of using both ABC and Halon extinguishers.1: Halon was first used for electrical and computer storage areas. Halon uses up all the remaining Oxygen in the area, thus the fire goes out. However, in a confined space, it can cause suffocation for the user. 2: ABC or dry chemical is very corrosive especially to electrical components even if not directly involved in the fire.

Edited by AndyC (see edit history)
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:33 PM, 60FlatTop said:

If you are serious about keeping that old time flavor in your garage you can't go wrong hanging one of these one gallon carbon-tet  extinguishers right over the engine bay.

002.thumb.JPG.5b46a649277ffa1aa0242330d5b5caae.JPG

 

What is that device hanging just above the photos?  It looks like a gasoline nozzle mounted on a rifle or shot gun butt stock.  Could it be a nozzlebutt or a gunozzle, or sumthin' like that?   It looks like you could aim the thing, so you might be able to hook it up to a supply of "Cold Fire", thus becoming the envy of the entire fire protection community.:D  I think I can figger out how to operate the thing, except for the black wrought iron handle attached to the lower tang of the butt stock.:huh:  Is that a guard for a secondary 'set' trigger for a hair trigger on the nozzle?  Do you have a patent on that device?:ph34r:

 

Cheers,

Grog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now