Fire extinguishers for shop and cars

[capngrog]

2 hours ago, Digger914 said:

 

If you can close up the garage, disconnect the battery cables when cars are stored and get a smoke detector with remote notification. The biggest best fire extinguisher that money can buy only works if you're there to use it.

Best, but also most expensive option is a monitored sprinkler system. Even up here in the frozen north it cost less to sprinkle an un heated detached garage than it does to sprinkle than an already finished home. Long term property improvement with limited resale return, does help some with insurance rates.

As Digger says, the best fire protection is "fire prevention".  In addition to electrical isolation and installation of MONITORED smoke detectors, good housekeeping is a vital key to fire prevention.

 

3 hours ago, Curti said:

I have halon 1211 in my shop and cars. Is that the same as halotron?

Halotron is not the same as Halon.  As Digger said, Halon 1211 is a form of Halon that is more appropriate for use in hand extinguishers than its chemical cousin, Halon 1301.  Halon 1211 is a "streaming agent" which gasifies at normal atmospheric pressures and whose main health concern is oxygen displacement (smothering), similar to that of CO2.  Halon 1301, in concentrations greater than 13% can cause respiratory distress, heart irregularities, and, in prolonged exposures, death.  Of course at a 20% concentration of Halon, oxygen is depleted to such an extent that humans cannot survive (similar to the smothering effect of CO2).

 

Halon 1211 extinguishers are available from several sources.  Here's one on 'em:  http://fireextinguisherdepot.com/fire-extinguishers/halon-1211-fire-extinguishers.html

 

Both Halon 1211 and 1301 will break down into highly toxic chemical components upon encountering temperatures in excess of 900° F.  This is especially true in the case of direct impingement of Halon on a hot metal surface.  Note that temperatures in an 'ordinary' structure (house) fire can easily exceed 1,000°F.  Try not to use these extinguishers in a confined space.

 

I believe that a Halon 1211 hand fire extinguisher is superior to a similar CO2 extinguisher in most cases and would make an effective extinguisher for both vehicle and shop.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

[vintagerodshop]

Cold fire is a Brand of organic fire extinguishers. it is the only thing i will use in my house, shop, and cars. It is non corrosive so if you have a engine or wiring fire in a car and need to extinguish it you will not contaminate or destroy paint or interior fabrics and leather. It is definitely more expensive, but what is the cost to repaint the front end of a car?

 

http://coldfirecanada.com/features

 

I have no ties to the company. I learned the hard way!

 

 

[Curti]

So, what is the active ingredient in Cold Fire ?

[60FlatTop]

Cold fire, huh. Reminds me, I have a 20 liter liquid Nitrogen dewar and some home made devices I used on a couple refrigeration patents I had in the 1990's. The kids were always quite entertained with what I showed them. It's in the corner by the cans of bromine.

 

Well, I'm off to an environmental symposium for a couple days.

Bernie

[capngrog]

I wanted to quote Vintagerodshop on this while deleting the video.   Unfortunately, I could delete everything EXCEPT the video!   AAARRRRGGHH!!

 

Anyway, after trying to research this "Cold Fire" stuff, I was unable to find out what the UL 2N75 Standard is and could find no reference to an NFPA or FM approval.  This "Cold Fire" seems to be almost "too good to be true".   The one thing in particular that I'm having trouble wrapping my 'brane' around is the claim that "Cold Fire" absorbs 21 times more heat than water.  If I understand the "Cold Fire" technology correctly, it is used in differing concentrations in water.  If all the claims are true, a "Cold Fire" extinguisher would certainly be a worthy addition to any home or commercial vehicle maintenance facility.  Apparently, "Cold Fire" solutions will freeze in routinely-encountered (up 'north', not here in Florida) freezing weather.

 

Cheers,

Grog

A

2 hours ago, vintagerodshop said:

 

 

[JACK M]

I see that the safety crews use "Cold Fire"  at the local race tracks.

[Digger914]

6 hours ago, capngrog said:

I wanted to quote Vintagerodshop on this while deleting the video.   Unfortunately, I could delete everything EXCEPT the video!   AAARRRRGGHH!!

 

Anyway, after trying to research this "Cold Fire" stuff, I was unable to find out what the UL 2N75 Standard is and could find no reference to an NFPA or FM approval.  This "Cold Fire" seems to be almost "too good to be true".   The one thing in particular that I'm having trouble wrapping my 'brane' around is the claim that "Cold Fire" absorbs 21 times more heat than water.  If I understand the "Cold Fire" technology correctly, it is used in differing concentrations in water.  If all the claims are true, a "Cold Fire" extinguisher would certainly be a worthy addition to any home or commercial vehicle maintenance facility.  Apparently, "Cold Fire" solutions will freeze in routinely-encountered (up 'north', not here in Florida) freezing weather.

 

Cheers,

Grog

A

So I had kind of the same thought and went to my old IFSTA manuals for a little refresher course on fire extinguishers and extinguishing agents. "Cold Fire" is a trademark, nothing more than a business name, not a technology. My best guess is that their wetting agent is some improved form of F 500 Encapsulate and referenced as NFPA 18. That this can now be stored premixed under pressure and still be useful at -20  (UL File EX4660) was news to me.

[Curti]

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is .   Where is GLONG, he seems to be well informed on this subject.

[AndyC]

As a retired Career Firefighter, there are a few things to be aware of using both ABC and Halon extinguishers.1: Halon was first used for electrical and computer storage areas. Halon uses up all the remaining Oxygen in the area, thus the fire goes out. However, in a confined space, it can cause suffocation for the user. 2: ABC or dry chemical is very corrosive especially to electrical components even if not directly involved in the fire.

Edited April 21, 2017 by AndyC (see edit history)

[capngrog]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:33 PM, 60FlatTop said:

If you are serious about keeping that old time flavor in your garage you can't go wrong hanging one of these one gallon carbon-tet  extinguishers right over the engine bay.

 

What is that device hanging just above the photos?  It looks like a gasoline nozzle mounted on a rifle or shot gun butt stock.  Could it be a nozzlebutt or a gunozzle, or sumthin' like that?   It looks like you could aim the thing, so you might be able to hook it up to a supply of "Cold Fire", thus becoming the envy of the entire fire protection community.  I think I can figger out how to operate the thing, except for the black wrought iron handle attached to the lower tang of the butt stock.  Is that a guard for a secondary 'set' trigger for a hair trigger on the nozzle?  Do you have a patent on that device?

 

Cheers,

Grog

[Curti]

58 minutes ago, AndyC said:

As a retired Career Firefighter, there are a few things to be aware of using both ABC and Halon extinguishers.1: Halon was first used for electrical and computer storage areas. Halon uses up all the remaining Oxygen in the area, thus the fire goes out. However, in a confined space, it can cause suffocation for the user. 2: ABC or dry chemical is very corrosive especially to electrical components even if not directly involved in the fire.

 

A restoration shop near me had a 810-1812 Cord come in for repair.  It had some sort of  electrical short . 90% of the repair bill was from the damage the dry chemical caused.   I think CO2 or Halon would have been a better solution.

[trimacar]

I had an engine fire with my '31 Pierce.  Around the carburetor of course, and when I opened the hood, flames were high...actually, I had an old top on the phaeton, and had it been in the up position, it probably would have ignited and burned the car, but thankfully it was down....

 

Used two dry chemical fire extinguishers, didn't stop the fire.  Finally, ran to the trunk and grabbed gallon of water I kept there, poured it as a last resort.....cracked exhaust manifold but put the fire out (I'd bought a new casting manifold as a spare, wow, was I glad I did.....)

 

Later, surveying the damage, there was dry chemical everywhere...covering the engine, had even blown back and was in the upholstery....what a mess.  So, even though fire damage was confined to engine and hood, ended up restoring the car again.

 

I agree that only using Halon outside is advisable, but what a better way to put out a fire...

[victorialynn2]

Well I always have the bay door open when I'm in the garage so I'm going to assume the Halon wouldn't suffocate me. 

 

On on another note what do I do with the expired ones I have? 

[Digger914]

22 minutes ago, victorialynn2 said:

Well I always have the bay door open when I'm in the garage so I'm going to assume the Halon wouldn't suffocate me. 

 

On on another note what do I do with the expired ones I have? 

 

Small towns up here the local fire station is the drop off point for refilling extinguishers, probably the same in small town Texas. Give the local city hall a call and find out when and where for drop off, pick up and the price.

 

Personally I'm liking the "ColdFire" extinguisher mix and will be replacing my present wetting agent the next time I refill my big water extinguisher. Having a little trouble swallowing the hype that the stuff is so green that you can drink it, My present wetting agent is non toxic liquid dish soap and I wouldn't suggest that anyone could drink the water from that extinguisher.

 

That they could have found a new chemical for the cryofluid in smaller carry extinguishers that mixes with water, gets cold when you heat it, won't freeze in the winter and is also safe for skin, would certainly make it the best extinguisher for car, shop and home. Before I go buying into that, I would have to see one of those extinguishers sit outside on a sub zero night and still work in the morning.

[victorialynn2]

Thanks Digger. 

[60FlatTop]

22 hours ago, capngrog said:

What is that device hanging just above the photos?  It looks like a gasoline nozzle mounted on a rifle or shot gun butt stock.  Could it be a nozzlebutt or a gunozzle, or sumthin' like that?

A friend of mine found that at a flea market and brought it home for me. He knew I liked to hunt for old gas pumps and figured nothing could be more appropriate.

 

I must have some kid of magnetism toward those people with a warped sense of humor. They keep showing up.

 

I used to have 8 pumps by my garage with sequenced 30 watt bulbs. My favorite was a Tolkeim Cut 850 clockface. When I was 16 a friend of mine and I took a trip to the southern end of West Virginia, Bluefield, Taswell, Richlands, and War. We got Va and WVA mixed up and couldn't find Richlands at night. We pulled into a dark gas station parking lot in the middle of nowhere and slept in the car. In the morning light the sign on the building said Richlands Service, or something like that, wrong Richlands. Every time I saw that light at night I remembered to trip and what a beacon a single 30 watt bulb would have been in 1920's rural West Virginia. I'd sit on the back porch looking out there thinking about stuff like that.

 

The piece on the stock is just something to gently caress when you know you don't want to pull the trigger but feel like making the person next to you uneasy.. Sometimes body language or your eyes can do the same.

[Digger914]

Had a good talk with my local fire chief today and he didn't recognize the "COLDFIRE" brand name, but the department has charged liquid water with wetting agent extinguishers that work like the COLDFIRE advertisement and they don't freeze in Minnesota winters. I will be sitting in on the next extinguisher training drill.

[Curti]

9 hours ago, Digger914 said:

Had a good talk with my local fire chief today and he didn't recognize the "COLDFIRE" brand name, but the department has charged liquid water with wetting agent extinguishers that work like the COLDFIRE advertisement and they don't freeze in Minnesota winters. I will be sitting in on the next extinguisher training drill.

I will be very interested in what you report Digger. My son is a volunteer at the Baldwin WI FD he has not aware of it either. 

[edinmass]

We are in the process of building a new building/shop. Halon 1211 is what I specified for all the extinguishers in the building, even though it is sprinkled. It looks like the local inspectors don't like or want Halon 1211 even thought it legal. We will have to get the usual dry powder ones and swap them out after the inspection. It's crazy, but in the town we are building we have an annual fire safety inspection. The city does an actual walk through, and won't let the private fire inspector / maintaince people do it and file the paperwork. Big brother! 

[60FlatTop]

I used to service the refrigeration and cooling systems for telephone relay stations. The one way out on hilltops in the middle of nowhere. I got a call on a high room temperature alarm one night. A damaged filter had blocked the evaporator coil on the ceiling hung unit and it iced up. My first thought was to grab the MAP gas torch, melt the ice, and get home. My second thought was a lot less exciting. It took a long time to melt naturally.

 

Having four years of Navy damage control readiness, a combat readiness E, and a couple of damage control schools is an experience people used to get, kind of a passage into adulthood. Sometimes it seems to show. There is a level of confidence and competence "old guys" have, yet come under regulations that expect the worst case. I don't think any regulations are spontaneous. It is more like all are reactionary.... over reactionary.

 

Practice all the possible preventive efforts you can. The last thing we need is regulations for all because of one inept mistake.

 

 

Grrrrrrrrr

[Curti]

On 5/5/2017 at 9:14 PM, Digger914 said:

Had a good talk with my local fire chief today and he didn't recognize the "COLDFIRE" brand name, but the department has charged liquid water with wetting agent extinguishers that work like the COLDFIRE advertisement and they don't freeze in Minnesota winters. I will be sitting in on the next extinguisher training drill.

 Is there any update ? 

[Digger914]

1 hour ago, Curti said:

 Is there any update ? 

Fire extinguisher drill 3rd week of June at the main station, will post to this link after. 

[Curti]

Digger, did you attend the 'fire extinguisher drill' ? 

[R Walling]

 I have an extinguisher handy on my bunch, but the largest one is at the entrance door. If you panic and run for the door, it is right there, and when you finally realize that it is there, you can reach it from outside and go back in and fight the fire.

 

 I also heep two 5 gal. buckets of water that will put out burning paper,cloth etc.

 

 The most important thing that I do is sweep the garage regularly and blow out all the dust and scraps of paper out from under benches and tool boxes, that's where the sparks from welding will travel!

[Digger914]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 7:32 AM, Curti said:

Digger, did you attend the 'fire extinguisher drill' ? 

 

No, I missed it, spaced it, completely forgot all about it, by the time I looked at the calendar to check the date I was already a week late.