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Riviera63

1963 4 Note Horn Installation Question

31 posts in this topic

Hi,

 

I am contemplating adding the 4 note horn set up to my 1963. I know that the horns are located differently than the 64-65's (picture attached) and that the long horn is a different length as well. I have been told and seen it mentioned on the forum that the holes to mount them are predrilled on the 64-65 hood. My 63 does not have mounting holes predrilled. The service manual shows the horn location and does have a diagram showing some measurements for placing the holes. However, the bottom hole for the driver's side horn does not have any measurements or indication of where it should be placed. Its location is important to the placement of the other 2 holes as it is the pivot point for an arc that pinpoints where they are placed. I know many of the add-on accessories for my Pontiacs came with templates for locating cut out areas or placement of holes to be drilled. Was there such a thing for this accessory? Is there anyone out there that has done this to their 63? How critical is the exact placement of the horn's mounting holes? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Bill

 

Scan0002.thumb.jpg.8d351d2d82e901e162b880ddf7782cde.jpgScan0003.thumb.jpg.78703d7d9f88168fe79c6db76e325d45.jpg58d02a7dc3db9_64-654NoteHorn.thumb.jpg.cca783871c2788a6c581aa8ab48b608f.jpg

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My 64 has this setup. I'd be happy to give you any info that may help you make sure your hood closes without issue

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You have come to the right place!!!

 

The drawings that you posted are correct only for the early-'63 Riviera.  Later they were moved to both be on the driver's side.  What month was your car built and do you have factory A/C in the car?  This makes a difference.

 

The horn numbers are what is important on the '63.  Do you have the horns or are you still looking for them?

 

==================================================

Horn identification:

  Small horn Large horn
   length pitch stamp* length pitch stamp*
1963 14" Bb 948 24" C 949
1964 12" C 898 22" D 897
1965 N/A B 930** 22" D 897

* There are identifying numbers stamped into the flange of the trumpet base.  These numbers correspond with the last 3 digits of the GM part number (group 2.810, part number 1999xxx).

** The 1965 small horn was superceded with the same small horn that was used in 1964.

 

 

Source: Chip Little

=================================================

 

I have them on my '63 and I can assure you they are LOUD.  They really get attention when you use them.

 

You also need proper mounting screws and the wiring harness.

 

 

 

 

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The build date to which Jim makes reference will also determine the size of the "dent" in the vacuum canister.  There also a service bulletin that was published showing how to route the positive battery cable so that the bell on the large horn would not interfere  (possibly short) with the positive cable.

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I would also point out that (in my experience) the listed notes for those horns aren't even close to accurate.  That is, don't use them to tune your piano.

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Hi Bill,

this is the set up on my '63, November 62 build. Factory installed option on plate. Hope it helps

Rodney

 

If you need a better photo, please let me know,

 

image.png

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Thanks everyone for the information and offers of help. I am still shopping around for a set of correct horns, wiring harness, brackets and screws. I was aware of the correct horn numbers. My car was a May, 63 build and I do have air. Does anyone have suggestions as to how to locate where to drill the mounting holes in the hood and what size holes to drill? Was this covered in a service bulletin when the horns were relocated to the new location? If so, could someone please share this? I have Jim's Service Bulletin CD but, for some reason I cannot get it to load on my new computer. Thanks.

 

Bill

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16 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Hi Bill,

this is the set up on my '63, November 62 build. Factory installed option on plate. Hope it helps

Rodney

 

If you need a better photo, please let me know,

 

image.png

Rodney,

  Factory installed option on the plate? Can you please elaborate? Thanks,

  Tom Mooney

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9 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

Thanks everyone for the information and offers of help. I am still shopping around for a set of correct horns, wiring harness, brackets and screws. I was aware of the correct horn numbers. My car was a May, 63 build and I do have air. Does anyone have suggestions as to how to locate where to drill the mounting holes in the hood and what size holes to drill? Was this covered in a service bulletin when the horns were relocated to the new location? If so, could someone please share this? I have Jim's Service Bulletin CD but, for some reason I cannot get it to load on my new computer. Thanks.

 

Bill

Bill,

  The diameter of the holes is in the drawing you posted. Just need to do the conversion from decimal to fraction,

  Tom

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36 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

Bill,

  The diameter of the holes is in the drawing you posted. Just need to do the conversion from decimal to fraction,

  Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

I understand that part. Those drawings are for the earlier horn placement. Does the hole size stay the same for the later horn placement? I need 3 questions answered for the later 1963 horn placement: 1.) How many holes need to be drilled? (I assume 3 since the 64-65 horns used 3) 2. What is the diameter of all holes that need to be drilled. If the number of mounting holes is 3, are the hole sizes .375 for the bottom hole and .185 for the top 2 holes as is shown in my drawing? 3.) Where/how to determine the correct location for the holes to be drilled? Thanks.

 

Bill

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2 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

Rodney,

  Factory installed option on the plate? Can you please elaborate? Thanks,

  Tom Mooney

Yes, please.

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Hi guys, sorry have confused the sales code O7 with the plate option codes. The original sales order and invoice show 4 note horns, so thinking they were factory installed, however they could also have been dealer installed. Hope this clarifies things.

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Posted (edited)

Nothing forward of the firewall is coded on the Fisher Data Plate*.  The only way I know that my '63 had factory installed horns is that they're on the window sticker.  No reference to them on the data plate.

 

Ed

 

*My '63 came from the factory with cruise control, tilt wheel, Guidematic, Twilight sentinel, four note horns, and cornering lights.  None of which is coded on the data plate.If the option was not installed at the Fisher Body plant but rather it was installed during final assembly, then it will not be stamped into the data plate.  Different assemblies in different plants,  Engines, chassis, and body.  All were married together at final assembly along with the installation of the front clip, steeting column, radio,, heater, etc.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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On 3/21/2017 at 7:27 AM, Riviera63 said:

Thanks everyone for the information and offers of help. I am still shopping around for a set of correct horns, wiring harness, brackets and screws. I was aware of the correct horn numbers. My car was a May, 63 build and I do have air. Does anyone have suggestions as to how to locate where to drill the mounting holes in the hood and what size holes to drill? Was this covered in a service bulletin when the horns were relocated to the new location? If so, could someone please share this? I have Jim's Service Bulletin CD but, for some reason I cannot get it to load on my new computer. Thanks.

 

Bill

 

Bill-

If the CD is damaged, I will replace it.

 

You can use the measurements for the '64 Horn installation to place the horn brackets on your '63.  The horns are different but the installation is the same.  I think you will have to find a copy of the '64 Shop Manual to get those measurements.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

Bill-

If the CD is damaged, I will replace it.

 

You can use the measurements for the '64 Horn installation to place the horn brackets on your '63.  The horns are different but the installation is the same.  I think you will have to find a copy of the '64 Shop Manual to get those measurements.

 

 

 

 

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for the offer. It turns out the CD's were fine. I took my computer in. The problem actually was the disc drive on my computer, which is not defective either. What they found is the CD's I got from you are actually a little thicker than most CD's and adding the label gives it another little bit of thickness. The disc drive on my computer is is an ultra thin one and that little extra bit of thickness would not allow the disc to seat properly in the drive. Any other CD's played fine in my drive and your CD's played fine in any other disc drive they had.The solution was to load the CD's on a thumb drive and all is right with the world.

 

Since the 64's came with the horn mounting holes already drilled will the 64 manual give measurements to locate the holes to be drilled? I have no problem buying a 64 manual but, I don't want to do that if the info I need is not there. If someone has a 64 manual and could let me know if that info is in the manual I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

Bill

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Hi Bill,

two brackets per horn, one front, one rear, four in total. One brace goes across the void in the hood but the two horns are seperate, not bracketed together.

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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11 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

Since the 64's came with the horn mounting holes already drilled will the 64 manual give measurements to locate the holes to be drilled? I have no problem buying a 64 manual but, I don't want to do that if the info I need is not there. If someone has a 64 manual and could let me know if that info is in the manual I would appreciate it. Thanks.

 

Bill

Bill,

I apologize but I can’t help with the dimensions you are looking for right this minute.

 

However, from the ’64 and ’65 manuals I have access to, neither give the dimensions for the holes. I am posting these to show the manuals. If you can’t get the dimensions elsewhere, not sure if Tom has sent them, I’ll see if I can get some from the hood of one of my ‘65s later today.

 

58d665432d111_4NoteHornInfo-1964SvsMan.thumb.jpg.a241b38ea8a8a85a8a02c29a7b5e87c1.jpg

 

58d66553ed988_4NoteHornInfo-1965SvsMan.thumb.jpg.42427958d0c65ab64f3b4f5535b9a0ef.jpg

 

Hope this helps some anyway,

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Rodney and Randall,

 

Thanks for the pictures and the diagrams. This all helps.

 

Bill

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Bill,

 

A bit behind my time estimate, but, I did get some measurements from the ’65 hood I have.

 

The 3 holes on the driver’s side on this hood are pretty much where your ‘63 service manual shows them. I did the measurements for the 2 holes on the sides of the opening using a straight edge along the bottom of the openings, then went from there. (These are PICS 1 to 3)

 

58d97d6df401c_PIC1.thumb.jpg.da2d71039b1199c003b5fdd097a185eb.jpg

 

58d97d8c2b457_PIC2.thumb.jpg.3007222c3bb6f3cda4657e0dc59af1b1.jpg

 

58d97db20929c_PIC3.thumb.jpg.cd471ea19c338195882a2cd1c4a7b504.jpg

 

 

For the lower hole I measured from the outer edge of the hood, as you can see with it .5” from the edge of the opening it falls right at 12” from the outermost edge of the hood itself. (These are PICS 4 and 5)

 

58d97e005521b_PIC4.thumb.jpg.8cd8d68daf68e4d7e294b4d0f669cae0.jpg

 

58d97e2c7920e_PIC5.thumb.jpg.85e435fe6dd240b6f59ac185c669fc51.jpg

 

 

For the lower 2 holes, I laid tape measures on the hood. The measurement for PIC 7 the tape is inside the brace, just kind of wedged in there up against the side brace, and for PIC 8 it is outside the brace. Both of these holes are right at .25” from the edge of the brace they are drilled into. (These are PICS 6 TO 8 … HOWEVER, in PIC 6 I say go to 5 & 6 and it should actually say 7 & 8) Sorry about the confusion, I added the numbers then added a couple pictures and didn’t correct it.

 

58d97f33f14a8_PIC6.thumb.jpg.fc9371c05f41408e17eb3579db37a54b.jpg

 

58d97f5654ab5_PIC7.thumb.jpg.bc75a885fe0ebd38773a192c21b8a66a.jpg

 

58d97f6fb575a_PIC8.thumb.jpg.4e1754a8b7cf59545bc697d3e7a12eff.jpg

 

Also, all of the holes in this hood are .185”.

 

If you need more measurements, if what I’m posting is not clear, let me know and I’ll see what I can do.

 

Hope this helps,

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Randall,

 

Wow! That was help above and beyond the call of duty. I really do appreciate that. That should be a huge help when I do drill holes to install horns. I have to find a set of horns first and then I will probably wait until the weather gets into the 60's or 70's before doing the install. I will let you know if I need any additional help but, your pictures seem to be pretty thorough. Thanks again.

 

Bill

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Rivman, I'm impressed at your reply, 10/10. I was just about to take the bonnet off my 63 and flip it upside down on the driveway too. But I was worried I would scratch the pavers, so glad you beat me too it !!!!

 

cheers

Rodney

 

(now if you could answer my question about the seat adjuster Spring that way, I would be very happy)😄😄😄😄

 

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13 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

Randall,

 

Wow! That was help above and beyond the call of duty. I really do appreciate that. That should be a huge help when I do drill holes to install horns. I have to find a set of horns first and then I will probably wait until the weather gets into the 60's or 70's before doing the install. I will let you know if I need any additional help but, your pictures seem to be pretty thorough. Thanks again.

 

Bill

Bill,

 

You're welcome.

 

I thought I mentioned it above but just realized I did not, the 3 holes that match the holes in the '63 diagram are all .5" from the edge of the flanges (PICS 1 thru 5).

 

If I were you I think I would get the complete assembly (the brackets), mark the holes from the measurements above, and be sure they match up before drilling them. I'm sure that is your plan, just thought I would mention it.

 

PS: It was 77 and sunny here yesterday, sorry, I just thought I would mention that too.

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7 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Rivman, I'm impressed at your reply, 10/10. I was just about to take the bonnet off my 63 and flip it upside down on the driveway too. But I was worried I would scratch the pavers, so glad you beat me too it !!!!

 

cheers

Rodney

 

(now if you could answer my question about the seat adjuster Spring that way, I would be very happy)😄😄😄😄

 

Thanks Rodney, I'm glad I beat you to it too! This is a junk hood I have laying around waiting for disposal, so no removal was required for me.

 

Sorry but I don't have access to any '63 seat mounts. I can take a look at the '65 I have here that has the seats in it, is the '65 the same or different from what you are looking for? I don't know if it would give you the information you are looking for?

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