Instructions: Polishing front turn-signal polycarbonate

[Fox W.]

To anyone interested:

 

 

Remove assembly, this is done by a few bolts you can reach under the car, it attaches by metal bracket retainers.

Disconnect each bulb (Just turn each one to unlock and pull them out the back)

Gently remove assembly, pull your fender slightly upward if needed, avoid scraping lower plastic filler panel with assembly screws.

 

Remove two top torqx screws and metal straps

Remove lower torqx screws (These are threading in to metal inserts that may have come loose from the plastic and may just spin/pull out. These are the same points where these assemblies tend to crack.)

 

Remove exterior metal trim.

 

Apply a heat gun to the entire perimeter of the front assembly in order to soften the factory liquid gasket media. When it is hot enough you will be able to pull the front lens away without much force.  Be gentle.

You should now have what looks like my picture.  You can now clean and polish everything.

 

Outside of outer lens: Depending on how bad it is, start with either 400 or 800 grit while using a random-orbital sander with water.  Wet sand thoroughly.  > Move up to 800, > 1500, > 2000.

 

Switch to a random orbital or rotary polishing device.   Use a heavy duty rubbing compound paste or a heavy plastic polish at this point. > Move to a fine plastic polish. > Finish with a protective resin polish, such as 'Autoglym Super Resin Polish.'

 

Doing the above by hand would be pretty tasking if you really want to remove all pits.

 

Clean everything inside, optionally use something like a resin fine polish for those too.  Optionally glue or plastic weld any cracks.

 

While everything is apart, this is a great time to tape off the chrome trim on the outer metal piece, and repaint the black top sections which peel over time.

 

Reassemble by once again heating up the factory seal, and add more gasket as needed. The factory seal is pretty much exactly this stuff: 'Permatex 34311 The Right Stuff Grey Gasket Maker' also on Amazon.  Pair with 'Permatex 800368 The Right Stuff Caulking Gun'

 

 

Optional: Replace amber bulbs with 'SYLVANIA 194 T10 W5W Amber LED Bulb' seen on Amazon.  (Pricy, but brighter and last.. also won't blacken.)  

Optional: If you don't mind a colder color, you can replace the turn signal and/or the bulb that lights you turn path with 'OPT7 880 CREE LED DRL Fog Light Bulbs - 5000K' also on Amazon.   Personally it is too cold a color for me, but they don't offer these in anything warmer than I found with LED.  It will be much brighter than factory.  The good part is that it is also much less heat, so it won't damage the inner reflective plastic (chrome plating) so much as the incandescent ones had.

 

Thanks.

 

In some of the below pictures, it shows both of my turn signals.  The driver-side is polished with LEDs.  The passenger-side is unpolished with factory bulbs.  

The difference in regards to lumens is subtle as you see.  The color match is good.  

The turn signal picture shows factory turn-signal but with LED directional light.

 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Fox W. (see edit history)

[handmedownreatta]

could you do mine next?.

[Barney Eaton]

I have heard that you need to change your flasher if you go to LED bulbs..........what did you do?

[KDirk]

 

Fox, nice write-up. Pretty well what I have done for mine with the addition of applying a UV Stabilization coating made by Syllabus and sold by some FLAPS. natuarlly, this same technique works on the fog lamps as well.

 

Barney, the 90 I parted out last year had amber LED 890 lamps fitted. They worked fine, though the flasher was updated to one that did not have a load dependent blink rate. The notable thing with these LED retrofits is most are designed for constant brightness at variable voltage input; in a range of say 5 to 24 VDC supply typically. Therefore, when driven at 6 volts (in running lamp mode) they are brighter than surrounding 194 lamps. In signal mode (12 volts) they blink just fine.

 

the original design intent of all amber lamps having uniform brightness across the face of the lens when the park lamps are on is negated by this idiosyncrasy, but it does overcome the issue of breakage of the amber globe, as well as the heat the 27W halogen 890 lamps generate that damages the housings. It also reduces the replacement interval.

 

890 halogen lamps are generally rated at 300 hours or so. Because they are not the easiest lamps to source (locally anyway) and access is lousy for replacement, considering all of that, I can see the appeal in making the aesthetic versus functional trade-off. I kept the ones from the 90 I parted and will use them in a pinch if ever needed. I usually keep some 890's on hand as no one here I've found stocks them anymore so they need to be ordered in with the requisite lead time for delivery.

 

I did try out amber 194's recently, and changed them back to incandescent long lifes. The LED 194's simply had too much hot-spotting due to their focus pattern and lack of dispersion. I didn't like the way it looked at all. Maybe lamps from a different supplier would be better, I did not try the Sylvania units that Fox posted about up thread, but some bulk pack bulbs I bought off eBay.

 

I'd point out I used white versions of the same lamp from the same seller previously and was very happy with those in the footwell lamps and license lamps. The amber ones had decent color and excellent brightness, but were simply too narrow in output to look for right in the front park lamps.

 

 

 

[DAVES89]

I agree it is a great writeup and having hung out wirh Kdirk I was ashamed of my cornering lamps on the Red. The Red's also looked poorly against the 'verts [which were original]. In the Red's defense it was a "carport" car from Florida so I am sure the sun got to it and oxidized them out.

 However rather then trying to refinish mine I was fortunate in finding a pristine Reatta in a yard near West Bend that had numerous excellent parts that I was able to grab. I believe the car was only junked because of a Teves brake issue and I am sure an uniformed mechanic just quoted a complete unit rather then just the ball or switch.

 Anyhow the lamps I just bought [now installed] are on a par with the cornering lamps that are on the 'vert and I am no longer ashamed to be seen in public. [lol] 

 I also bought the fog lights as they are excellent as well.

 Sorry to steal the thread, now back to regular programming.

[ChrisWhewell]

My eyeglasses are polycarbonate and they got a little solvent on them, which clouded them. I tried toothpaste, and the stuff they sell for headlamps, and I watched every amateur on the internet youtube videos with their fixes but none worked. I finally figured it out - I used my jeweler's polishing / buffing wheel and chucked it onto my bench grinder. Then, using jeweler's rouge, I polished my lenses. Perfectly clear. So, the answer for headlamps polycarbonate if I ever go there, would be to chuck that buffing wheel into a drill, sop it with a little rouge and go at the headlamps.

[KDirk]

Dave, (I think I'd already told you this) in fairness I have to confess the front lamp assemblies on my good 88 (which you saw both at your place when I visited and at the nationals in Springfield a couple of years back) were NOS units I installed when I finished cosmetic restoration on the car in 2012. My 91 coupe also has NOS housings on it, the other cars  have optically restored ones. The latter look decent but not as nice as the NOS ones, and those took a lot of work to remove the scum and bring out the shine.

 

I'm sitting on two pair of NOS assemblies still and will only use them when I have exhausted all my used, restored ones (I have 3 pair of really nice clean restored ones and a couple of pairs that are maybe 6/10 condition) and will gladly grab another pair of NOS if the opportunity presents itself at a price I can stomach. 

[DAVES89]

I remember all of that, but still I was blown away by how nice really clean ones look. After I saw them I took a hard look at mine and decided I would do something about it and as luck would have it I found some really nice ones. 

 It really dresses the car up and when one does the taillight then you can really see what our cars looked like brand new.

 BTW did you see Fox W.'s pictures in the "My favorite Reatta pictures" farther up? His taillight looks outstanding as well.

 The car looks like new!

Edited March 12, 2017 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

9 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

I have heard that you need to change your flasher if you go to LED bulbs..........what did you do?

Hi, I only changed the direction-illuminating bulb with LED,  not the flashing turn signal bulb. My logic was that since it flashes, heat is less an issue than the one that stays on steady while turn signal is active.

[Fox W.]

"  did try out amber 194's recently, and changed them back to incandescent long lifes. The LED 194's simply had too much hot-spotting due to their focus pattern and lack of dispersion. I didn't like the way it looked at all. Maybe lamps from a different supplier would be better, I did not try the Sylvania units that Fox posted about up thread, but some bulk pack bulbs I bought off eBay. " - Kdirk

 

Hi,  I know what you mean and totally agree.  This is why I gave these particular LED 194s a try, because they have a frosted enclosure/lens that really diffuses the light. They were pretty clearly going for trying to make an LED that acts like a traditional light.  I think that is key with all LEDs, avoid clear enclosures.   For instance, in my basement I recently replaced all of my fluorescent fixture bulbs (4ft and 8ft) with LED bulbs (you by-pass the ballast) and they are available with either clear housings or frosted.. The difference is seeing intense discrete lights which some like because it is..different and currently showy... I guess.. (see all newer cars with eye-liner dots)  or seeing diffuse light, which is far easier to look at.

 

[Fox W.]

" I believe the car was only junked because of a Teves brake issue and I am sure an uniformed mechanic just quoted a complete unit rather then just the ball or switch. " - Daves89

 

That is a sad affair.

[Fox W.]

4 hours ago, ChrisWhewell said:

My eyeglasses are polycarbonate and they got a little solvent on them, which clouded them. I tried toothpaste, and the stuff they sell for headlamps, and I watched every amateur on the internet youtube videos with their fixes but none worked. I finally figured it out - I used my jeweler's polishing / buffing wheel and chucked it onto my bench grinder. Then, using jeweler's rouge, I polished my lenses. Perfectly clear. So, the answer for headlamps polycarbonate if I ever go there, would be to chuck that buffing wheel into a drill, sop it with a little rouge and go at the headlamps.

 

Great job.  I once tried to clear-coat my tail lens.. I failed.. and I used harsh chemicals to try to remove my failure.. it did the same as to your lenses.. it chemically dissolved it somewhat, causing bad clouding.   I was told explicitly (by someone who sold 'restored' tail light assemblies)  that it would be impossible to fix.   Well, the person sent me the assembly.. it came looking decent.. though it was rusty on the bolts, and some of the plastic retainers around the bolts broke in shipping.. and the best part was, the restored poly looked worse than my had before.. it was a very scratchy polishing job.   In the end I had a body shop rotary-polish mine and..wow, it looks like new, and better than the 'restored' lens I received.   So there ya go..  You can polish anything to perfection if you have the tools, skills and there is still enough material remaining.

[Fox W.]

2 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

I remember all of that, but still I was blown away by how nice really clean ones look. After I saw them I took a hard look at mine and decided I would do something about it and as luck would have it I found some really nice ones. 

 It really dresses the car up and when one does the taillight then you can really see what our cars looked like brand new.

 BTW did you see Fox W.'s pictures in the "My favorite Reatta pictures" farther up? His taillight looks outstanding as well.

 The car looks like new!

 

Thanks!  Body shop did that.. and that was -after- I had melted it somewhat with chemicals, as noted above!

[drtidmore]

Fox W.

I am curious if you found the OPT7 880 bulb sufficiently bright and effective in the cornering light application? As the Cree OPT7 is primarily axially oriented even though it does have barrel mounted LEDS, the cornering lamp application is primarily a sideward illumination situation, so that is what concerns me.  I am familiar with the output characteristics of this design as it is the same design as I used in the rear of the Reatta when I did a complete LED retrofit on the rear of the Reatta several years ago.  I see that OPT7 also has a newer version of the 880 bulb with twice again the output so that might be an option for the cornering light application.  I am glad to see that the Sylvania 194NA LEDS are a good fit visually for the front parking lights as they were on my list as potential candidates for the front.  Like yourself, I had decided that I would leave the 890 incandescent in the park/turn location as it normally runs at half brightness and over the years I have had to only replace that specific location a couple of times.  

 

And I might add that while I have kept the lens assemblies, front and rear in pretty good shape (rear especially), after seeing the finished product of your efforts, I am inclined to pull the front assemblies and do the total refurb. 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

Thanks.  I just finished the passenger-side one tonight.  It felt like a lot of work. I'm thankful for my plastic-welder to help with the torqx screw receivers that break out from the plastic on the bottom side.

 

But now it looks great.. no more yellow or haze.  

 

I haven't taken the car out yet to give a real test of the cornering light, I will let you know and try to take pictures.

 

 

[drtidmore]

Fox W.

Looking forward to your findings on the OPT7 880 as a cornering light bulb.  After finding that OPT7 had a newer version of the same bulb (called V2 series), I decided to go for it and ordered a pair ($39.95 total) to test.  According to what OPT7's website states, these are 50% brighter than the original CREE OPT7 version but at the same time they state that they are 6X brighter than their "Plasma" series which in comparison, the original Cree 880 bulb states that it is 3X brighter than their "Plasma" series, so I don't know which is correct, but obviously the V2s are brighter and brighter is better in the cornering lamp application.  I wish vendors would simply post lumen specs.  I will try and get some pics of the sideways illumination capability of my current 890 incandescents and then with the OPT7 CREE V2.  I will be happy with parity.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

Hm I see what you mean.. http://www.opt-7.com/cree-v2-series-led-fog-light-replacement-bulbs/

 

Now I feel ripped off.  I'll see eventually when my car is ready if what I have is good enough.  To me it looks much brighter than factory as it is.. it almost over-powers the turn signal light, but the question is if the direction of the light is correct.

[KDirk]

I'm using some LED white 890 bulbs for the side illumination (not turn signal) lamps that are Cree based, purchased off eBay some time back. They are a bit brighter (to the naked eye, I did not measure output with a light meter) than stock halogen 890 lamps. Keep in mind a halogen 890 is spec'd at 27 watts, though I don't recall a lumen rating being given. And almost no automotive LED bulbs give a lumen rating, but maybe a "equivalent to xxW bulb" type verbiage on the package at most.

 

We are just now to the point where household LED bulbs are routinely giving lumen output on the package, something the makers resisted for a long time as the light output often wasn't very good until about 18 months ago when third generation bulb designs hit the market. I suspect automotive bulbs will come along eventually, but it will take some time. So far, I've been using LED bulbs for the fog lamps, front side cornering lamps, interior courtesy and glove box, and in the high mount stop lamp (red led 1141/1156 replacements).

 

I have not used them anywhere the load will effect of the blink rate of the turn/hazard lamps. While a load independent blinker can be fitted on 90/91 cars, the 88/89 have a solid state blinker control module that cannot be changed out like a regular tin can flasher. To use LED lamps on 88/89 in the blinker positions, you need to add ballast resistors to simulate the load of incandescent lamps. 

 

 

 

[KDirk]

89- good information there, but one problem. Many LED bulbs are sold with "equivalent wattage" ratings. This is weasel wording courtesy of some corporate attorney, which really means "we can't say it is equal in light output to X wattage bulb" but it is "roughly in the neighborhood". This is the same as the way CRT computer monitors were sold back in the 90's and early 2000's with descriptions like "21 inch class” when an actual measurement of the visible portion of the tube could yield anywhere from 19" to 20 and change. Time was the the FTC would kick some butts over this kind of stuff. Yeah, I laughed as I typed that in 2017.

 

I see a large discrepancy in lumen ratings on household bulbs at a stated wattage even now. A "60 watt" LED bulb can be as little as 390 lumens up to 500 or so on packaging I've seen recently. I'd call that is a pretty wide margin. So, an accurate conversion from watts to lumens is still reliant on the honesty of the manufacturer. 390 lumens should be classed more like 40W. I know I'm beating this to death now, but this stuff bugs the hell out of me because it is flat out deceptive. There is no uniform standard to be found, and obfuscation to underdeliver is the order of the day. 

 

This is all intentional of course. Just like the audio amplifier power wars of the 1970's where the FTC actually did file suits and force the adoption of RMS watts as a uniform measurement standard to rate the output of an amplifier, we have the same foolishness gong on now in multiple areas where gross exaggerations are taking place, only this time no one is busting chops over it.  

 

 

[Fox W.]

Just to note, the GE 890 bulbs I had as stock are 540 lumens according to their spec sheet.

[drtidmore]

10 hours ago, KDirk said:

To use LED lamps on 88/89 in the blinker positions, you need to add ballast resistors to simulate the load of incandescent lamps. 

 

 

 

A bit of nuance here on the 88/89 flasher situation when swapping to LEDS.  Ballast resistors are not needed on the 88/89 from the perspective of the flash rate when using LEDs, but swapping to LEDs does impact the bulb-out monitoring functionality.  As KDirk stated, the 88/89 have an electronic module that controls the turn signal, hazard flasher and brake light functions as well as monitoring for burned out front and rear turn/flash/brake filaments.  The module flashes the exterior bulbs at the same rate REGARDLESS of the load unlike a can flasher of the type used on the 90/91 models (i.e. burned out bulb=same flash rate regardless).  When switching to LEDs, the issue is NOT the flash rate but the bulb monitoring feature.  When a filament (reduced load) is detected, the module causes two things to happen when the turn signal is activated, the chime rings ONLY ONCE and the IPC indicator remains illuminated with no flashing indicated, however the exterior bulbs flash at their normal rate. The real problem is what to do about the bulb-out monitoring if swapping to LEDs. The bottom line is there is NO way to have the 88/89 turn module monitor the LED's state.  The LEDs simply pull too little current for it to make any difference to the module even if one or more should burn out.  The load from all 3 LEDs (one side or the other) failing is less than the current from ONE of the incandescents that the module is expecting.  As for how to solve the interior indications, that is solvable with a bit of work.  It involves adding in a couple of small reed relays with their coils tied into the left and right cornering light circuits.  Then one side of the each relay is tied to the front left and front right outputs from the module.  The normal output to the IPC turn indicators is then swapped from the turn module to the respective remaining contact on the added relays.  As the chime circuit for turn indication is on a shared line with the IPC turn indicators, this fix restores normal functionality to that as well.  I did this mod over 3 years ago and have had NO issues. One neat thing about this mod is that the turn module has independent monitoring of the front turn bulbs, so as long as those remain incandescent bulbs, the chime bulb out function still works even thought the IPC turn indicator will continue to flash due to the mod even if the front turn 890 fails. 

 

I am sure that someone is going to question why the added complexity of the relays and why not simply tie the IPC indictor inputs to the front turn signals?....well, turns out the bilevel 890 turn signal bulb is not the only oddity in how GM designed the turn light circuit. On the rear bulb circuit, the module outputs a pulsing Zero to +12V.  On the front, well things are reversed with the output from the module pulsing from +12v to Zero (i.e. +12V is present when the there is no turn/flash activated.   In the relay box under the hood there are two relays activated by the respective cornering light output from the turn module.  When activated, the relay wiper connects the 890 turn bulb, directly to the +12V to Zero pulsing turn signal output.  When the relay is NOT activated, the wiper connects the turn bulb to the headlight parking light circuit.  As to WHY they did the reversal on the signal levels, I suspect it was to reduce the overall load on the module as the front and rear lights pulse out of phase with each other in this design.  If you tied the IPC turn indicator directly to the front turn output of the module, the IPC indictors would be on constantly and the chime would ONLY work on start up of the car.  Also you can't run wires from the external relay box as that would apply 6v to the IPC indicators when the park lights were on.  The ONLY way to get proper IPC turn indicator and chime functionality is with the mod I described.  The mod is not difficult and if you could find the appropriate male/female connectors, you could make this a plug and play mod, but I just cut the wires and made it permanent as I had NO intentions of ever returning to incandescent bulbs. 

 

I have a good write up on the mod and will gladly share, just PM me.

Edited March 16, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[KDirk]

 

Ok, I did botch my explanation on that. As he stated, only the IPC indication and chime are affected. Still an issue, albeit relatively minor. I've not had a chance to apply the relay mod yet, though if I ever go to LED turn signals in back, or a sequential turn signal kit, that is exactly what I'll do. Thanks for the clarification. I need to stop letting my fingers get ahead of my brain, especially when posting late.

 

 

 

[drtidmore]

 

5 hours ago, 89RedDarkGrey said:

If wired in correctly- would THESE work?

If you are asking if that would work to fix the issue as I described, no it will not.  The only solution is as I described.  Yes you loose the bulb-out functionality as a result, but lets face it, LEDs are likely to last longer than the remaining life on most Reattas.

[drtidmore]

On 3/15/2017 at 7:11 PM, Fox W. said:

Hm I see what you mean.. http://www.opt-7.com/cree-v2-series-led-fog-light-replacement-bulbs/

 

Now I feel ripped off.  I'll see eventually when my car is ready if what I have is good enough.  To me it looks much brighter than factory as it is.. it almost over-powers the turn signal light, but the question is if the direction of the light is correct.

In looking at the design of the V2 vs the original it appears that they doubled up on the barrel LEDs which should work favorably as the reflector in the cornering light was designed to redirect the 890 side illumination out.  I am okay if the V2 bulbs project a bit further forward (i.e. the end projector of the bulb) as long as the side illumination is adequate.  

 

I just got my V2 bulbs yesterday, so I will be installing them in the next few days.  I am going to park the Reatta beside a light colored wall and then take a pic of the light distribution as well as intensity on the 890s and then repeat after installing the V2s without moving the car.  I will ensure that the exposure remains constant from the first pics so as to hopefully show how the two compare.

Edited March 17, 2017 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[Fox W.]

Cool.  

[Fox W.]

How did those end up working for you?  The version I have work very well.. other than being a colder color, they are very effective in lighting up the way, better than original.

[handmedownreatta]

i  want to turn the three front park lights on each side on the front into daylight running lights.i already have a reatta wiring harness to wire to the ignition on.what white leds do you recommend?

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, handmedownreatta said:

i  want to turn the three front park lights on each side on the front into daylight running lights.i already have a reatta wiring harness to wire to the ignition on.what white leds do you recommend?

 

If you push in the fog light button on the center console all those lights go on and off with the ignition anyway. I keep mine on all the time. Why do you need to use an extra wiring harness?

[handmedownreatta]

56 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

 

If you push in the fog light button on the center console all those lights go on and off with the ignition anyway. I keep mine on all the time. Why do you need to use an extra wiring harness?

i don't want the tail lights on.i see a lot of new cars with led running lights on the front.