John_S_in_Penna

CAUTION! Newer cars can be hacked and sabotaged remotely

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Here's something that will make you appreciate your

older cars better:  Newly released reports have demonstrated

that new cars can be hacked and controlled remotely.

Anyone from afar with special knowledge can disable

your brakes, control your steering, unlock your car, etc.

In fact, the American C.I.A., it is reported, has been

developing these techniques to create car accidents

and "assassinate" people in a way that can't be detected.

 

Watch the video on this link: 

http://dennismichaellynch.com/video-hackers-take-vehicle-highway/

 

Here's a link to a British website with similar information:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/year-zero-series-wikileaks-cia-9982483?service=responsive

 

We don't get into politics in this forum, but this is certainly

a car-related topic with extremely important ramifications.

It makes one want to go out and buy a 1979 Chevrolet for

extra enjoyment and comfort.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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WOW!

And my wife thinks I'm paranoid with internet banking....

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Why are people surprised by this? If the car has wireless connectivity, it CAN be hacked. Same with your phone, computer, NEST thermostat, connected appliances, etc, etc. Tell me why your fridge needs an internet connection. 

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46 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

Why are people surprised by this? If the car has wireless connectivity, it CAN be hacked. Same with your phone, computer, NEST thermostat, connected appliances, etc, etc. Tell me why your fridge needs an internet connection. 

 

I guess you're right, Joe.  But more people are seeing

this for the first time, since Wikileaks came out recently.

And they said that the C.I.A. was planning to kill people

(or maybe actually doing it) by controlling their cars--

something I had never heard before.  And to date,

NOTHING that Wikileaks has ever released has been 

proven incorrect.

 

There were other illegal (and unconstitutional) warrantless

spying acts revealed  by that Wikileaks--on some of the topics

you mention, plus "smart" televisions--but they're not on our

forum's automotive topic.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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I'm involved in safety assessments of gov't systems. Cybersecurity is a BIG deal, especially for safety critical software. Tesla brags about being able to update software wirelessly. News flash: if they can do that, so can hackers. That is NOT a feature.

Edited by joe_padavano (see edit history)

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7 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

I'm involved in safety assessments of gov't systems. Cybersecurity is a BIG deal, especially for safety critical software. Tesla brags about being able to update software wirelessly. Need flash: if they can do that, so can hackers. That is NOT a feature.

 

Simply disconnect the satellite antenna and install a 50 Ohm termination.  You'll lose functionality and wireless vulnerability.

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20 minutes ago, EmTee said:

 

Simply disconnect the satellite antenna and install a 50 Ohm termination.  You'll lose functionality and wireless vulnerability.

I don't know (not frankly do I care) how integrated these systems are to the rest of the operating system. On most newer cars, the loss of one system usually sets off alarms and triggers default modes in the rest of the system.

Edited by joe_padavano (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, joe_padavano said:

On most newer cars, the loss of one system usually sets off alarms and triggers default modes in the rest of the system.

 

Well, if today's cars require continuous Internet connectivity to function, then we're in deeper trouble than I thought.  Probably explains that "why do I feel like I'm being watched" feeling, though...  :unsure:

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1 hour ago, EmTee said:

Simply disconnect the satellite antenna and install a 50 Ohm termination.  You'll lose functionality and wireless vulnerability.

 

On many new cars, so many functions go through

the "touch-screen" on the dashboard, without actual

knobs or other controls.  Would disconnecting things

the way you say render other things inoperable?

 

It sounds like a good idea, though.

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I advertised on Craigslist for a programmer to cyber secure my truck on board devices and clear the fuel vapor canister light from my truck. I was contacted by an out of work German who said he used to work on diesel Volkswagens. Seems good so far, but I do drive a little to the right in case I have to ditch it.

Bernie

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I had this figured out when the tire pressures in my new Equinox appeared on an email.  Scary crap!

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Guest BillP

This pervasive tech intrusion is certainly much more serious than we CAN imagine. As we who are now in our 60s, 70s and 80s fade out, a real danger to those following is that they have grown up with, and become not only accustomed to, but comfortable with having lost a large degree of personal autonomy and freedom. Frequently, what is embraced today as the cool new gadget or app or system becomes a method to influence if not control. To a large degree, this is by design.

To establish relevance with this forum, I am happy to report that I have several computer-illiterate vehicles in my small fleet. 

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Well, I hope none of you have drawn the ire of the CIA so much that they are targeting you, but if they really wanted to take you out they would simply aim a self-driving, fully-loaded, semi tractor into your vintage "unhackable" car. What about when we all have nothing but autonomous cars? They can just redirect the car and deliver you right to their doorstep.

 

I remember 10-tears ago when I was putting tape over my computer and later phone cameras and literally everyone I knew thought I was nuts. I would suggest leaving phones out of the room during sensitive business conversations, and holding them outside of spaces with smart TVs, etc., but yet I was looked at as a weirdo. To me it just made sense that if these machines have the capability, then it will be used, so I'm grateful that people are at least now finally becoming aware of these possibilities. At the end of the day however, as I started this post, unless you are a high value target, meaning a pretty bad dude, you will have nothing to worry about... for now. Maybe in the future a wild dictator will decide to punish all the people of an opposing ideology and drive them to prisons in their very own autonomous cars, but let's hope that's a futuristic science fiction vision more than a nearer-term prediction.

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3 hours ago, EmTee said:

 

Well, if today's cars require continuous Internet connectivity to function, then we're in deeper trouble than I thought.  Probably explains that "why do I feel like I'm being watched" feeling, though...  :unsure:

My point wasn't that the vehicles need CONTINUOUS connectivity (though that IS coming with V2V systems that are being proposed).  My point was that the vehicle has built-in test functions that will detect a permanent loss of connectivity and react accordingly.  As others have noted, diagnostic (and presumably, driving history) data gets transmitted now without your knowledge (or at least without your explicit opting-out).  Tesla (and other vehicle manufacturers) requires the connectivity to upload software patches and updates. This will only become more pervasive.  What I don't understand is how can anyone who's ever used a Microsoft product think that computers are infallible?

 

As for the "being watched" feeling, I remain amazed by people who voluntarily use those Progressive Snapshot and similar data loggers.  Do you REALLY want your insurance company to have minute-by-minute records of everything you do behind the wheel?  Keep in mind the information that is available through the ALDL connector - vehicle speed, throttle position, engine RPM, and on newer vehicles, steering angle, brake force, ABS and traction control data, etc, etc.  That can't end well. 

Edited by joe_padavano (see edit history)
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The auto industry is working on left turn assistance where the on board computer can over ride the driver,  ( 2020- 2022 target date)

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All the the new cars have adaptive learning features and some fuzzy logic installed. They learn.

Get one of these installed on the output of your 12 volt power source: http://www.ebay.com/itm/interVOLT-Rugged-12V-5A-DC-Voltage-Stabilizer-Regulator-Power-Conditioner-/252777612777

Condition your vehicle to receive a smooth supply of clean power to the ECM and related processors. Then, with your phone close by so it knows it's you, bypass the conditioner and feed it dirty power for a couple of days. Reconnect the conditioner. It will figure out, from your phone proximity, that it is you. Do it a few of times over a week or two. If a light flickers or you sense suspicious activity, bypass it. Once it knows who is Boss it will ignore the dark side. Computers have been an everyday part of my job since 1974. My dog knows the crackle of a fortune cookie wrapper and my computer knows when I am going to jump something with a resistor.

"Those whom subscribe to conspiracy theories give way to much credit to the supposed conspirators." quoting myself, oh, God. Bernie

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36 minutes ago, MarrsCars said:

...To me it just made sense that if these machines have the capability, then it will be used, so I'm grateful that people are at least now finally becoming aware of these possibilities. At the end of the day however, as I started this post, unless you are a high value target, meaning a pretty bad dude, you will have nothing to worry about... for now. ...

 

While we're enjoying scenic drives in our old cars, taking

families on tours, bringing youth into our club, others aren't

up to such honorable purposes.

 

Mr. Marrs, your alertness is good.  However, the people using

this advanced technology are evidently a step ahead of you.

And I read that Joseph Goebbels said the same thing, claiming that

if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

 

See this link and listen to the interview between newsman Sean Hannity

and an NSA "whistleblower" named Binney.  Forget any political tones,

and listen specifically to minutes 2:20 to 3:30 on the tape:

 

 http://dennismichaellynch.com/nsa-whistleblower-drops-bombshell-hannity-surveillance-practices/

 

“Are you saying that every American can be wiretapped against their will without any warning at any point?” Hannity asked.

“NO. I’m saying they ARE,” Binney replied.

“You mean I have been wiretapped” asked Hannity. “Repeatedly?”

“Yes,” Binney replied.

Hannity then asked, “And by wiretapping, that means what? Recording my phone conversations, taking my emails, my texts?”

Binney responded, “That’s correct, and also storing it for mining.”

 

Now, folks, tell us more how to disconnect modern cars!

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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33 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

All the the new cars have adaptive learning features and some fuzzy logic installed. They learn.

 

And I'll never own one of those.  In fact, I'm just finishing up my new daily driver - a 1967 Delta 88.

 

As I like to tell people, my cars will still run after the EMP comes. :D

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Geez, This is one scary thread.

My decision as to whether I should buy a new pick up or not has so much more to consider.

Back a few years when you could get your car unlocked, or a wreck detected was scary enough. But to consider that your car could be hijacked while in it with the doors locked brings up a whole new set of worries.

I have often considered what kind of a world I (we) am leaving to my kids and grand kids, but now I am on overload.

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