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Fluid drive?


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Dad was in this 1961 program. He worked on the car. It had one of the 1st 409s produced and beat a lot of records back then.

 

1956 Jerry Unser, Jr. Chevrolet 16:08.000 DR 1957 Jerry Unser, Jr. Ford 15:39.200 DR 1958 Nick Sanborn Jr. Pontiac 15:49.700 1959 Nick Sanborn Jr. Pontiac 15:45.200 1960 Louie J. Unser Pontiac 15:36.600 DR 1961 Louie J. Unser Chevrolet 15:06.000 DR 1962 Curtis Turner Ford 14:55.500 DR 1963 Parnelli Jones Mercury 14:17.400 DR 1964 Parnelli Jones Mercury 13:52.200 DR 1965 Nick Sanborn Jr. 1964 Plymouth 14:17.700

2017-03-10 22_48_31-Champion Spark Plugs 1961 Chevrolet Pike Peak Hill Climb R… _ Flickr.png

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When you get done figuring out all the Hemis Chrysler ever made for Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge you can work out the Polysphere versions of the same Hemi blocks, plus the Polysphere engines that never had a Hemi counterpart, then the raised deck Hemis and their Polysphere counterparts, then the Chrysler engines that were used in Dodge cars and trucks, the Dodge engines used in Plymouths, and the Canadian versions that were NEVER used in US made Dodge DeSoto or Chrysler cars but WERE used in certain Plymouths.

 

When you get done figuring that out you can go to work on the flathead sixes and straight eights.

 

Now, with the engines sorted out, you can figure out which transmissions were used with which engines in which years, and in which models of cars and trucks.

 

I tried to organize a spreadsheet once but gave up in despair. I think I know most of the permutations and variations if I come at them one at a time but like I said before, you can go nuts trying to sort them all out at once.

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Glad you guys enjoyed the video. Note that in 1953 they did away with the oil pan on the bottom of the bellhousing and ran the torque converter on oil piped in from the engine. This was the model that had the 12 quart engine oil pan. Found in Chrysler six and V8 models and also the Plymouth HyDrive, a one year only monstrosity.

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Love all the post. And the remark that these trans never had problems? About 20 cars that went through my hands, half of them had been out of the car and half of that were rebuilt is my guess because the units were painted a different color. That is what we did when we rebuilt units when I was in that business. 

NOW!! Lets take a test.

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That's not a Fluid Drive. That's a Torqueflite. In drag racing they would rev the engine to 7000 in Neutral  and punch the Drive button for a fast launch. Most times the car would take off like a bomb, once in a while it would be the trans that acted like a bomb.

No Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive ever blew up like that.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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11 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

That's not a Fluid Drive. That's a Torqueflite. In drag racing they would rev the engine to 7000 in Neutral  and punch the Drive button for a fast launch. Most times the car would take off like a bomb, once in a while it would be the trans that acted like a bomb.

No Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive ever blew up like that.

 

That is why I had LOL!! We had a 62 Vette in 65 with a turbo 400 and was doing a 6000 neutral slam and they made us leave the track. The car was running low 11s with all GM parts except for cam and headers. Mopar hated us back then.

Vette@Cruise.jpg

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9 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

When you get done figuring out all the Hemis Chrysler ever made for Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge you can work out the Polysphere versions of the same Hemi blocks, plus the Polysphere engines that never had a Hemi counterpart, then the raised deck Hemis and their Polysphere counterparts, then the Chrysler engines that were used in Dodge cars and trucks, the Dodge engines used in Plymouths, and the Canadian versions that were NEVER used in US made Dodge DeSoto or Chrysler cars but WERE used in certain Plymouths.

 

When you get done figuring that out you can go to work on the flathead sixes and straight eights.

 

Now, with the engines sorted out, you can figure out which transmissions were used with which engines in which years, and in which models of cars and trucks.

 

I tried to organize a spreadsheet once but gave up in despair. I think I know most of the permutations and variations if I come at them one at a time but like I said before, you can go nuts trying to sort them all out at once.

 

14 hours ago, c49er said:

People seem to never fully understand these Fluid Drive/   Hy-Drive/  Fluid-Torque Drive/  Tip-Toe Shift/  Presto-Matic/   Hydraulically Operated Transmission/  

 Vaca-Matic /    Simpli-Matic /  M-4/  M-5  / UnderDrive  and on and on.....Why don't people understand these transmissions?

 

 

I have owned a few of these combinations. As stated mostly trouble free.

I had about a 52 or 53 Dodge that had teeth missing from the flywheel and had to bump start it every time. Two high school guys could get it up to the 7 or so MPH for it to click to the high gear in low range to get it started. Mostly parked on hills however.

 

Lest I regress.

I just wanted to comment that its all to clear now. Clear as mud.

(the reason I avoid these I suspect)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2017-03-10 at 9:38 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

Liquimatic was Ford's idea of an automatic drive used in some Lincolns and Mercuries in 1941 and 42. They were such a dud all were recalled, swapped for manual trans, and the whole affair hushed up. After the war they bought transmissions from GM (Hydramatic) and Studebaker (Borg Warner). I believe the first transmission that was all their own, was in the 1956 Lincoln.

 

Liquimatic was actually a Borg-Warner product and it was an option on 1942 Lincoln and Mercury models.   Although it had a clutch, there was no clutch pedal.  It was a dud and all were replaced with the normal clutch and transmission.    Studebaker offered the same unit in their Commander and President models, calling it Turbo-Matic.  They, too, were replaced with the normal set up.  All but one, apparently.  Studebaker also used a wide brake pedal with their Turbo-Matic. 

 

Ford bought Hydramatics for Lincolns starting in 1949  The 1951 Fordomatic and Mercomatic was not a Studebaker transmission but a unit Ford developed with the Warner Gear Division of Borg Warner.  It was a 3-speed with Low being 1st gear and Drive starting in 2nd and shitting to third.  The 1956 Lincoln Turbo-Drive was derived from the BW Fordomatic, which in turn was improved upon and, with an aluminum case, became the Cruiseomatic.  Another variation of the Cruiseomatic used pushbuttons - 1957-58 Mercury, 1957 Monarch, 1958 Edsel, and 1958-1962 Ramblers (except the American).  

 

Studebaker's Automatic was developed with the Detroit Gear Division of BW. and first appeared midyear on the 1950 Commander models.   It was first offered on the Champion models for 1951.  The gearing was similar to Ford's Warner Division transmission, but the Studebaker unit had a locking torque converter.   Also, Studebaker's Hill Holder was also available on their automatic.  And again used a wide brake pedal.  When Studebaker was working on their transmission, Ford asked if they could purchase units for their cars.  Studebaker said no, and thus Ford went on to develop their own with WG.  In 1955 Detroit Gear advised Studebaker the price would be going up as production was dropping.  So, in 1956 Studebaker starting using Ford's transmission from BW.   The Studebaker automatic was shipped to Britain where it was used in various six cylinder cars British cars.   After BW got control of the WG transmission, that unit was also sold in Britain, but used on four cylinder cars.

 

GM's Hydramatic was introduced for 1940, the year before Chrysler introduced their semi-automatic.  Next came Buick's Dynaflow (1948), Packard's Ultramatic (1949 - with TC lock up), Chevrolet's Powerglide (1950), Studebaker's Automatic (mid-1950), Ford's Fordomatic (1951), and last but not least, Chrysler's Powerflite (late 1953).  Kaiser, Frazer, Hudson, Nash, Lincoln, and Willys also used Hydramatic.  Chrysler was dead last with an automatic, and Plymouth was the very last American-built car to offer an automatic (mid-1954).  Plymouth's Hy-Drive was an update of the Fluid Drive of 1939 - a manual transmission mated to a torque converter instead of a fluid coupling.  It was neither an automatic nor a semi-automatic.  

 

And the lack of an automatic transmission, coupled with old fashioned styling and high prices, cost Chrysler Corporation the #2 slot in U.S. auto sales and Plymouth its #3 slot in its battle in the market.

 

Chrysler was the third American manufacturer (after Packard and Studebaker) to offer a torque converter lockup in 1978.

 

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